The Live aboard stereotype.

[TCM1968]

Currently we are just weekenders but within the next two years we plan on becoming full time live-a-boards. I have read quite a few of the threads on this forum and others on the subject and there seems to be this ongoing and growing consensus that’s live-a-boards have boats not capable of leaving the slip and they and keep junk all over the piers, and use up all of the water and electricity the marina has to offer leaving nothing for others to use.
So this past weekend I set out on a mission to find out the truth on this matter. Now I will not mention specific marinas that I visited but I will tell you that we are in the Clearlake, Tx area. Which from what I understand is the third largest concentration of boats and marinas in the U.S.
After walking the piers and slips of several of these marinas this weekend and talking to a few people both live-a-boards and occasional users. My conclusion is this: Overall the vast majority of boats I saw that were being used as live-a-board vessel were very nice looking and well maintained. Yes a few of them did have more than just a dock box on the finger piers but none looked to have junk laying around.
On the other side of the matter, the overwhelming majority of boats in these marinas that appeared to be eyesore heaps of junk ranging anywhere from just filthy with green mildew completely covering them to complete wrecks barely still afloat were vessels for whatever reason, I am assuming owned by people with more money than sense that haven’t laid eyes on the boat in months if not years.
From the posts and responses I have read on this sire and others it seems that there are becoming less and less slip availability for live-a-borads. And also less support from the overall cruising community. I would have to ask why is this? I have seen comments from people who classify themselves as cruisers which correct me if I am wrong but I understand that to be a live-a-board who just doesn’t stay in one place all year long, that have advocated or at the very least not supported those who in the live-a-board classification of members on this forum with an attitude of you must be a bum if you want to live on your boat full time.
In conclusion, I ask why wouldn’t we instead be asking the marina owners that in place of banning live-a-boards in general why not just have rules for seaworthiness and overall looks and maintenance of all vessels. If you don’t keep up with your boat then they should ask you to remove it from the marina regardless of weather you live on it or just use it twice a year.

Anyway I apologize in advance for my poor grammar but I just needed to vent.

[Calif.Ted]

If you don’t keep up with your boat then they should ask you to remove it from the marina regardless of weather you live on it or just use it twice a year.

You want to be the one who evicts my handicapped 97 yo dockmate for not "keeping up" his boat to your standards ?

[John_Trusty]

In support of OP TCP1968, I believe that he is speaking in support of live-aboards, and advocating that marina owners not judge them by their status, but individually. I know the live-aboards that call my little marina home are our most valuable assets. They act as informal hosts and watchmen. They treat the marina like their neighborhood, where I only visit on evenings and weekends. Sure, in the summer they use more electricity for A/C, but that's more than compensated by full-time, owner-mindset residents.

[Calif.Ted]

The negative stereotype here is created by people who think living aboard is a cheaper alternative to the high cost of living near the beach. They get the cheapest boat they can find on Craiglist and move in with 2 dogs and some patio umbrellas. It's not people who use the boat as a boat.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

You want to be the one who evicts my handicapped 97 yo dockmate for not "keeping up" his boat to your standards ?

How often does he take his boat out?

[Calif.Ted]

About twice a week year round except he misses a week or 2 occasionally, he's just a don't fix it unless it's broke type. Went out on 4th of July once, when the engine crapped out he sailed a 38' boat thru the marina and into his slip.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by TCM1968

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

............ I ask why wouldn’t we instead be asking the marina owners that in place of banning live-a-boards in general why not just have rules for seaworthiness and overall looks and maintenance of all vessels. If you don’t keep up with your boat then they should ask you to remove it from the marina regardless of weather you live on it or just use it twice a year.

This almost exact discussion was held in San Francisco about a decade ago.


The conclusion there was that it would make the marina operators use-Nazis. Really, who is going to check and keep those records?


My marina had a "good looking" policy,, but unfortunately only when you entered the marina. A dock neighbor began neglecting his boat over a period of five years (I was there for 18 years!). During one heavy rainstorm the cockpit flooded and water rose to infiltrate a vent he'd added to his cockpit locker and gbegan to flood the boat. Not only that but it started looking pretty rotten after the first three years.



They finally locked his boat in the pen with a chain and locks, which would have hindered his ability to move the damn boat, wouldn't it?!?


He finally returned and left.


So, it's really bad they don't do that to folks who are already there.


But beauty is in the eye of the beholder...


Most people take pride in their boats. I agree that folks who don't show up are usually the culprits, but they're renting a piece of water, just like everyone else who pays.


No easy answer. My new marina has a lot of boats that are kept nicely. There's one eyesore that is a 25-27 footer, ripped jib from a December 2018 windstorm, growing green slime all of the deck, topsides and cabin. Yuck. I try to not look at it, but...

[TCM1968]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

The negative stereotype here is created by people who think living aboard is a cheaper alternative to the high cost of living near the beach. They get the cheapest boat they can find on Craiglist and move in with 2 dogs and some patio umbrellas. It's not people who use the boat as a boat.

The situation you describe is created by the State in which you live in. Not by the live-a-board boating community. I spent a couple of months with my cousin in Long Beach this past year. Homeless people everywhere crapping in peoples front yards. He woke up one morning and found someone inside his privacy fence to his huge 200 sq ft yard shooting up with heroin.

This is the exact thing I was talking about. You want to stereotype people who live-aboard as homeless derelicts because California has an over population and over taxation problem that has people living in vans, rv’s on the every street and yes some attempting to live on junk boats. This is definitely a problem in SoCal so I sort of understand your point of view being skewed this way. But this is not the situation in most other places. And we should be careful about encouraging banning of live-aboards in general. The next life style banned may be yours.

[Ahneema]

I agree 100% John_Trusty! I could say it any better!

[sailorboy1]

the term "liveaboards" doesn't really mean "people who live on a boat", just as "trailer trash" doesn't mean everyone who "live in a trailer"

There are 4 boats here in the marina I'm at with people living on them. Three of the boats are the cleanest best kept looking boats in the marina. The other is a "liveaboard" boat.

[KadeyKrogen38]

You must be referring to South Shore Harbor primarily in your comments about derelict boats. The management there is very lax in maintaining standards. Lots of boats in poor condition. There have been several boat fires as well over the years. Mainly on these poorly maintained boats.

Has nothing to do with the live aboards but poor marina management and laws that tie their hands to be effective in removing these boats.

Waterford Harbor welcomes live aboards, has well maintained facilities and management that is proactive urging owner maintenance of boats kept there. Notices have gone out stating owners clean up the green mold by X date or marina would clean and charge owner. I support this action as I keep my boat there and want to be around maintained, safe boats.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by TCM1968

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is the exact thing I was talking about. You want to stereotype people who live-aboard as homeless derelicts because California has an over population and over taxation problem that has people living in vans, rv’s on the every street and yes some attempting to live on junk boats. This is definitely a problem in SoCal so I sort of understand your point of view being skewed this way. But this is not the situation in most other places. And we should be careful about encouraging banning of live-aboards in general. The next life style banned may be yours.

I agree about not banning l-a-bs.


But the premise of over population and taxation may not be the only cause, if indeed it is at all. The emptying of the mental hospitals and general neglect of health issues and no increase in minimum wage in your country may well have played a part.

[Calif.Ted]

Don't shoot the messenger, some of my best friends are liveaboards, even a few WAY outside the already extensive RULES of the marina. Said rules already cover vessel appearance and seaworthiness, but impossible to enforce without draconian measures. By far the majority of boats in the "Scruffy" class are those with apparently absentee owners not liveaboards. It's not boaters living aboard that cause the trouble, it's troubled people trying to live aboard.
BTW my "beach house" is a 30 yo trailer worth bupkiss on an ocean view lot worth more than my custom built Victorian in the mountains 90 miles away. It's not living in California that's expensive, it's living near the ocean that's expensive. Isn't it the same in Texas ? My sister was just bending my ear about leaving Denver because "It's getting so expensive in Colorado".

[TCM1968]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

the term "liveaboards" doesn't really mean "people who live on a boat", just as "trailer trash" doesn't mean everyone who "live in a trailer"

There are 4 boats here in the marina I'm at with people living on them. Three of the boats are the cleanest best kept looking boats in the marina. The other is a "liveaboard" boat.

I agree with you, and I’m sure that is the context Calif.Ted refers to when he uses the term “live aboard”. The problem is the more the term is used in this context the more it gets accepted in general as anyone living full time on their boat. I can’t think of any other reason except for municipal governments wanting them banned because they are missing out on collecting taxes from these people, that a marina itself would not prefer to have more full time residents.
You can’t use the derelict boat excuse because all they have to do is enforce policies against them. People like to use the its hard to evict them excuse but they really don’t know what they are talking about as the protections renters of apartments and homes have under law do not apply in this situation as you are not renting the boat which you live in just the space to park it. It is no harder to evict a live-aboard then a weekend user. Full time residents mean more money being spent at marina restaurants, store and other amenities. And I guarantee that 99% of live-aboards care more bout the upkeep and appearance of the marina and facilities than do others that just pay to store their boat and come by a couple times a year. Live-aboards also in most cases from what I see pay higher fees per month than others. I know ours does and the electricity is individually metered so you can’t use that argument that they use more electricity because they pay for that too.

[TCM1968]

Calif.Ted, The cost of Texas waterfront property is not even close to comparable with California waterfront. And yes we have some very nice waterfront living here.