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Old 28-05-2012, 13:52   #16
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Re: Taser

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Gord-
"are not considered firearms by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATF) because the TASER cartridge uses compressed, inert nitrogen gas to launch "
Incidentally, that's BATFE, they changed their acronym years ago. But many places define "firearm" very widely as being anything that launches any projective by any means, specifically including springs, compressed gas, or telekinesis. (Kidding on the TK.)

That's the problem, who wants to know, much less keep up with the annual rule changes. The TSA bans weapons but allows us to fly with Cross pens. The very same Cross pens that were CIA issue in the 60's, as covert weapons.

Taser? One shot. Machete? Never runs out of ammunition. And except for a chinese imperial dynasty, never banned in civilian use, either. (Chinese civilians were banned from possessing ANY metal implement for many decades, which is the real story of why the peasants used chopsticks. I have no idea which dynasty that was.)
I bought a Samuri sword in Japan and it had a blunt blade when i asked why they told me it was against the law to sale a edged weapon in Japan!?
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Old 28-05-2012, 15:30   #17
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Re: Taser

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COUNTRIES IN WHICH STUN GUNS ARE RESTRICTED:
AUSTRALIA
BELGIUM
CANADA
DENMARK
HONG KONG
INDIA (POLICE USE ONLY)
ITALY
JAPAN
NEW ZEALAND
NORWAY
SWEDEN
SWITERLAND
UNITED KINGDOM
Actually, TASERs or "Conducted Energy Weapons" are not restricted in Canada... they are prohibited.
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Old 28-05-2012, 15:48   #18
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Re: Taser

The taser one has me scratching my head, being ignorant of the things. If the person was touching you, or water that was touching you, doesn't it zap you just as much as them? Which is to say they require training and the right conditions to be "useful"?

I think it has been established that wasp spray will kill the attacker but it takes about 20 years for the cancer to bring them down so isn't as effective as one might think. I suppose, revenge being a dish best served cold, there may be some logic to using it.
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Old 28-05-2012, 16:19   #19
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Re: Taser

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Originally Posted by mangomuffins View Post
Not trying to ramp up a gunthread but...

How many cruisers have been killed/seriously injured by thieves, not real pirates, etc.??
I'm thinking not that many percentage wise. I would think most thieves have NO intentions of really harming anyone... they just want your stuff.
Compared to loss of life... let 'em have it. Stuff is just stuff.


mm

Thieves sneak aboard when you are not there, so none. Robbers board when you are not looking and whack you with a machete, so lots.

You can give them YOUR stuff, I risked severe injury or death earning mine through decades of back breaking work. SO no I would rather keep it.

I have already made the decision my money is worth more than my life earning it, you just made the same decision if you decide to take it.
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Old 28-05-2012, 16:37   #20
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Re: Taser

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Depends on where you are. Some countries a Taser is legally a weapon and subject to the same restrictions (and penalties) as owning a gun.

Downsides: limited range (not much good against a gun several feet away), can address only one target (what do you do if 2-3 people invade your cabin).

But it is (usually) non lethal and eliminates that question.
Disadvantages of a taser.
1. Non lethal, so you just tased a bad guy, now what? Your going to run out of batteries in a few minutes of full output, now you have a mad bad guy.
2. It looks like a gun, and will be treated as one in most of the world, and subject to the same regulations, or prohibited entirely unless you are LE.
3. One shot, if there are two of them, sorry for you.
4. Leather jacket will stop barbs, so will goretex, (teflon), PVC, and several other heavy plastic or synthetic fabrics, cardboard, window glass, a tree, bush, umbrella, quick machete swing, etc...
5. requires training, If you don't hit a spot that gets good conduction into nervous system, he will just lose use of one limb, and be mad.
6. If bad guy is on drugs, he may not even notice, there was a taser incident recently where a guy on drugs took a dozen tases before he dropped.
7. you might need spare taser, another incident the bad guy yanked probes after being shot, but before incapacitation, fortunately officers partner also had taser out, and shot him in spot he couldn't reach.

8. Police officers also carry guns, ....why??? Think about it.

A taser is a great tool for law enforcement to control an unruly drunk, or someone who "fails to comply", but I would never consider it a "self defense" weapon.
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Old 28-05-2012, 16:43   #21
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Re: Taser

Two years as liveaboard in South San Francisco, ten years as liveaboard next to Oakland, California, One year gunkholing from SF to Panama, nine years visiting almost every island in the Caribbean. Sailed solo from Mazitlan. No guns. pepper spray, tasers or basebal bats.
I was befriended by the kind and generous locals at every stop!

No problems, and it was a worry-free adventure of my life.
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Old 28-05-2012, 16:47   #22
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Re: Taser

tropical-
"told me it was against the law to sale a edged weapon in Japan!? " I ma have the wrong oriental country in mind, but IIRC about 5-10 years ago some lunatic went berserk in a school class with blade and proved that a massacre still only requires a blade. Knowing Japan they might very well ban the sale of eded weapons in an attempt to prevent that. There's a similar movement in the UK to ban the sale of all pointy kitchen knives, for the same reason. The sponsors rightfully claim that cooks don't need to spear anything, rounded down blade tips are sufficient. So, they're trying to ban the pointy knives.
Now, if they could only ban the sale of whetstones....

Wasps? I find that Windex or cheap hairspray is the best thing for flying critters. The hair spray literally lacquers shut their "lungs" while weighing down their wings. The Windex...damfino, but Windex cures all manner of ills. Makes critters soggy enough so you can take your time swatting 'em. With apologies to any Jainists amongst us.
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Old 28-05-2012, 17:29   #23
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Re: Taser

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tropical-
Wasps? I find that Windex or cheap hairspray is the best thing for flying critters. The hair spray literally lacquers shut their "lungs" while weighing down their wings. The Windex...damfino, but Windex cures all manner of ills. Makes critters soggy enough so you can take your time swatting 'em. With apologies to any Jainists amongst us.
My Dad taught me to kill them with my hands. On the rare occasions when they are being a problem, yellow jackets, you just clap your hands together briskly with them in between. I have only once been bitten doing this and it was because I didn't catch them squarely. I actually prefer giving them a quick and forceful smack on the head with the back of my hand. It doesn't kill them but I have never had one stick around after. I presume they go looking for aspirin instead of coveting my beer.
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Old 28-05-2012, 18:37   #24
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Like many on this thread, 2 years RVN, 1 year Panama and 2 years OIF.
The 155mm howitzer won't fit on the B473, recoil is a bi__h. M14s are tough to come by. 1911 can punch holes in the hull.
We're is the catapult when you need it.
Mounted cameras with IR capabilities along with lifeline electrics seems most appealing.
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Old 29-05-2012, 06:31   #25
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Re: Taser

First, wasp spray is a COMPLETE myth! It has NO value for self defense.

Second, there are a whole lot of places where having a taser will get you into just as much trouble--and will get you just as long of a stay in prison--as having a gun.

Personally, I like the idea of ammonia in a squeeze spray bottle. To any officials who ask it is just a cleanser. A face-full of that will incapacitate most any attacker, though.
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Old 29-05-2012, 07:11   #26
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Re: Taser

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(Chinese civilians were banned from possessing ANY metal implement for many decades, which is the real story of why the peasants used chopsticks. I have no idea which dynasty that was.)
(WAY OFFTOPIC)

With due respect, I sincerely doubt that origin story for chopsticks. I certainly can't find any evidence in favor of it (or even that chopstick use arose among peasants first).

I'd sure like to see a citation for that, if you could find one. If it's just a half-remembered factoid, no matter, but I'm a bit curious whether this history is a widespread belief.
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Old 29-05-2012, 07:34   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangomuffins
Not trying to ramp up a gunthread but...

How many cruisers have been killed/seriously injured by thieves, not real pirates, etc.??
I'm thinking not that many percentage wise.

mm
Perhaps but who wants to be a statistic?
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Old 29-05-2012, 15:30   #28
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Re: Taser

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(WAY OFFTOPIC)

With due respect, I sincerely doubt that origin story for chopsticks. I certainly can't find any evidence in favor of it (or even that chopstick use arose among peasants first).

I'd sure like to see a citation for that, if you could find one. If it's just a half-remembered factoid, no matter, but I'm a bit curious whether this history is a widespread belief.

My wife is asian, and seconded this theory. The wikipedia put forth the theory that chopsticks were used to prevent chipping the laquerware. That doesn't hold water though, why not bamboo spoons or forks? Or laquerware spoons & forks? The earliest known chopsticks were brass, doesn't that chip the laquerware?

I'll go with the emperer theory. You wouldn't "evolve" such a difficult way to eat food by accident. Even chinese children are forced to use spoons, until they are capable of using the chopstick several years after western children are feeding themselves. It is a learned skill that takes practice to master even if you are Asian.
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Old 29-05-2012, 18:33   #29
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Re: Taser

phiwum, the dynastic ban on metal implements was a snippet of history I picked up a long time ago. I have no idea which dynasty. Then again, I can't tell you which European court (royal court, not legal) also banned forks for a while, as folks thought the cute little tridents were for spearing at each other instead of the meat. And I can't tell you exactly who ordered the lethal blankets from European smallpox victims be sold to US natives, knowing full well that it would kill them. Nevertheless, someone did sell them and they were remarkably effective, with a 90% kill rate recorded in at least one instance.

In US history we're taught about the Pilgrims...but not taught how they were themselves so intolerant that they threw out the group who started Connecticut. Who were still so intolerant that they spawned the Rhode Island colony. We're also conveniently taught that "rascals" were ridden out of town on a rail, or tarred and feathered. And not taught that the split rail was ridden pointy side up, resulting in massive damage to the rider. And the tar resulted in massive burns. In both cases, before antibiotics, deadly. Very similar to the quaint tradition of keelhauling. No one mentions that after being pulled across a thick mat of broken barnacle shells, you might survive but you were almost certain to die of massive infections a painful week or two later.

History is written by the winners. Who often don't want to dwell on "details" of what they've done to the hoi poloi, or other losers.

If you were banned from having metal implements of any kind, what would you use to eat with? Wooden forks don't work (literally) even if you have the time and good wood to make them, so you've got shallow spoons, and chopsticks, and not much else to invent. Chopsticks are even better because there's little work (time, money, luxuries) needed to "make" them, and they can be used for fuel (a luxury) tomorrow.

Ever see those beautiful wide porcelain spoons? You think a peasant could afford to own one, let alone replace it every time it broke?

Later chopsticks got turned around: Any peasant can make thick raw ones work, so as a show of refinement and class, you use lacquered finely polished thin ones, to prove you can master them. A sign of couth and class "fer sure". <G> Whether this change wa prompted by a desire to spare the laquerware, I don't know. I've only learned snippets of the history of the Middle Kingdom. After all, I'm just a hairy wide-eyed barbarian from the Low one.

And while Communism may have replaced the Sun King...that tradition is still there, too. Not documented in any official policy statements that I've seen.
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Old 29-05-2012, 19:30   #30
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Re: Taser

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My wife is asian, and seconded this theory. The wikipedia put forth the theory that chopsticks were used to prevent chipping the laquerware. That doesn't hold water though, why not bamboo spoons or forks? Or laquerware spoons & forks? The earliest known chopsticks were brass, doesn't that chip the laquerware?

I'll go with the emperer theory. You wouldn't "evolve" such a difficult way to eat food by accident. Even chinese children are forced to use spoons, until they are capable of using the chopstick several years after western children are feeding themselves. It is a learned skill that takes practice to master even if you are Asian.
A battle of the wives, then! My wife is also Asian (Chinese, in fact), but I'm afraid she doesn't back the story. While I imagine the Chinese had spoons way back when, I'm not at all sure that the fork predates chopsticks in China.

She does agree, however, that metal was outlawed at various times. Just not with the conclusion that this explains why Chinese use chopsticks. (Wikipedia doesn't agree with that story either, but it's a slim authority compared to two wives.)
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