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Old 26-09-2014, 12:10   #31
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

Would not a new metal fuel tank be preferred instead of the questionable bladder tanks?

Even bladder tanks for holding tanks have continually been reported as suspect in longevity.
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Old 26-09-2014, 13:09   #32
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

Simon,

I'm probably the wrong one to ask, but while I was preparing to head across the pond two years ago via the same route, I purchased six, five gallon plastic Jerry cans for extra fuel which would enable us to motor for 30 hours if it became necessary. Our primary fuel tank holds 225 gallons. We ended up not making the voyage.

The concern at the time was primarily fuel contamination and the ability to continue while solving a fuel system problem. Since adding a fuel polishing system and fuel filter switchover system, the worry has since been solved. It's always nice to know you can motor for more than a day when your primary fuel has run dry or the fuel lines have issues. Basically, enough to get out of the way of a storm.
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Old 26-09-2014, 13:34   #33
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
And I thought I was the only person who called the lazarette "the laz"!

But you can also put the full jugs in the laz. Diesel fuel does not present an explosion hazard like petrol does. I sure wouldn't want them in my cockpit, although the cockpit is certainly better than the deck, in terms of windage and so forth.
What about odors, etc. permeating the cabin? I know diesel isn't nearly as noxious or dangerous as gas or propane, but my lazzes(?) aren't sealed off from the cabin.
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Old 26-09-2014, 14:39   #34
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Re: Storing fuel for long crossing

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I'd secure one on the foredeck...
If I felt for some reason I had to jettison it, just take a knife and slit it open I guess.
Sorry, but this is just bad advice. Have you done this?

Get the weight down low, especially out of the ends of the boat. And eliminate the unsightliness, windage and risk of loss by accident or theft. Keep your decks clear for the safety of your crew.

A better solution for yachts with insufficient fuel capacity is to install an extra fuel tank that is used only for refilling the main or day tank. It can have its own deck fill and vent. But only a small pump is required to transfer fuel. Virtually every boat has such a convenient place to install a metal or plastic tank that will eliminate numerous containers on deck.
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Old 26-09-2014, 16:39   #35
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

@ simon :

What are you talking about?

Are you on the ARC rally?

Why extra fuel? It is a passage with enough wind to sail. You are in a Hanse. ARC penalises engine use.

Why extra fuel?

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Old 26-09-2014, 18:23   #36
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

I'm with Barnakiel. The ARC takes you into the trades not out of them. 2 -4 jerries in the cockpit will give you 20 - 40 hours of emergency motoring. That should be plenty. Just quietly you can sell standard, as distinct from environmentally friendly, jerries for a nice profit to Americans who can't buy them at home.

I also want to vote for Turtle Pac. Mine sat on deck in the tropical sun for 7 months and didn't leak a drop. Most boats have a spot under the vang where the 100l version can sit and be tied off on the grab rails.

Super Deck Tanks - Turtlepac
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Old 26-09-2014, 18:58   #37
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

When it comes time to store fuel for passage like this, I plan to make fuel storage tubes out of PVC 8 inch pipe with caps on each end. I figure I can glue in a fill fitting and a hose fitting with valve to run back to tank fill. My napkin calculations say a 6 foot length of 8 inch PVC would hold nearly 60 liters. These would be less windage and less vulnerable to seas than Jerry cans if lashed to stanchion bases. Also pretty much indestructible.
Anyone try this ever?


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Old 26-09-2014, 21:07   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post

What about odors, etc. permeating the cabin? I know diesel isn't nearly as noxious or dangerous as gas or propane, but my lazzes(?) aren't sealed off from the cabin.
Buy good jugs and don't forget to screw down the caps
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Old 26-09-2014, 21:56   #39
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

Simon, you are going on a rally, not a powerboat race. Unless you have great needs for electricity, you have plenty of fuel in your main tank. If you are planning on using a high drain auto pilot for the whole crossing, you still should get by with an hour and a half per day of engine time. With 30 HP that wont be more than 3/4 of a gallon per day. How many days is the average for the ARC? You are not going in the hurricane season, so you wont need to motor out of the way, and if you are the type that cant stand to drift along and enjoy it when the winds go light, then maybe cruising will be difficult for you. A couple of jugs just in case of fuel contamination should do you fine. I am going to suggest something that I think all potential cruisers should do. Go out and anchor for a weekend, and turn your main power switch off. NO ELECTRICITY! If you cant still make hot food, get fresh water, use your head, have enough light to move around down below, and do basic navigation, then your boat is not prepared for cruising. I am not saying that you need all simple systems, but that you need simple backups for the basic systems. You dont need lots of fuel(or even an engine ) to cross the Atlantic, but you need the basics of life onboard. Sorry for my basic rant. ______Grant.
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Old 26-09-2014, 23:36   #40
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

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Buy good jugs and don't forget to screw down the caps
Yes, but getting harder & harder to determine what constitutes a good fuel jug anymore, at least here in the states. West Marine recently got tagged for selling "permeable" ones. Apparently you had to pay extra for the "non-permeable" ones. Then there are the notorious "spill-proof" plastic nozzles. After awhile the plastic seems to crack, separate & deteriorate from the UV, so I've seen some boaters wrap them in coverings. You wouldn't think it would be that difficult!
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Old 27-09-2014, 01:01   #41
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

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Sorry for my basic rant. ______Grant.
Whilst I agree that all ocean crossing vessels should have a working procedure for when the power drops off, and you do make a valid point, nonetheless I do feel that you are pushing your views out as the be-all-and-end-all. Some people wish to use more electricity than you want to, and that is OK. It is even OK if people want to motor when the weather doesn't want to co-operate.

This is why I think the OP should take the comments about fuel storing to heart and then decide for himself what he can store safely on his boat, then decide what he wants to place in reserve for emergencies. For what he has left he can accurately calculate how many amp hours he can generate, and then he knows (with supplement solar/hydro/wind) what systems he wants/needs and how often he can motor sail.

One more thing to think about: how large is your battery bank? Adding an additional battery can help bridge days with little sunshine or little wind.


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Old 27-09-2014, 02:02   #42
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

Thanks for all the replies. Great info here.

Of course we plan to sail. My question was just about redundancy and safety. If we do hit bad weather it's good knowing there's fuel to try and get out of the way. If there's no wind it's good to know we can press on and spend less days at sea. And if that means the I get an ARC penalty so be it.

I always see a lot of cruising boats with tons of fuel striped here and there so wanted to know what options were out there.

Regards,
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Old 27-09-2014, 02:58   #43
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

FWIW, Simon, we've never carried extra fuel. We are, however, close to independent, electrically: solar and wind do most of it. So, in our usage, fuel is almost entirely for motoring.

HOWEVER, we always used to carry a 5 gal. jerry jug of water lashed in the cockpit--in case of running out [the boat had 2 25 gal. tanks]. Not to add to your worries, but understanding about many people's water demands these days, I'd suggest you carry some kind of minimalist survival water, in case of salt water intrusion into your tanks, or some unexpected usage of water. We humans need fresh water.

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Old 27-09-2014, 04:16   #44
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

Thanks Ann.

Yep we always carry the 2l per person per day min for any trip we do plus have about 50l of water stored away that we replace every month or so.

You're right though. Fuel is one thing but with sails you will get there in the end. No water.. Not so much.



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Old 27-09-2014, 04:43   #45
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Re: Storing Fuel for Long Crossing

Simon, You want to keep the weight low down, your side decks clear and the containers out of the way as you probably won't need to use them on the downhill run to St Lucia. Your 37' Hanse is a wide beamed, relatively light displacement, drop transom yacht. Is it the two cabin or three cabin layout? How many will be sailing? I do not recommend lashing jugs to your stanchions. I suggest, if two cabin, that you store up to four cans at the bottom fwd bulkhead of the locker. If you have the three cabin layout and one is being used to stow stuff,I suggest you store up to four cans in the floor well of the stbd cabin. It's diesel, not gasoline - you have little fire risk. Buy good quality heavy plastic 20L jugs - ex military if you can - and ensure they seal well. Wash/wipe them after filling and, if you have any qualms about seepage or smell (if closed properly they shouldn't) put each jug in a heavy duty plastic sack - best are agricultural fertiliser/feed sacks or large dog chow sacks and tape closed with duck/gorilla tape. I sail a 12m Oceanlord and on ocean passage carry 20L ex-WD plastic cans that I've had for over 15 years that don't leak, seep or smell. I store them below deck and out the way in the walk through cabin. Never on deck.
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