Southern Ca VS North Carolina

[jrbogie]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

Property tax is OK, we are just trying not to pay sales/use tax. Rhode Island usually gets snow and below zero temps, so something averaging above freezing is OK. We are trying to establish a base that we can use to get more ocean experience and maybe go down to the Islands in a year or so. There are a few marinas in Southport that are cheap and close to the cape Fear inlet.

i take it that you've yet to buy a boat and if sales tax is an issue you'll pay that in ca. not sure about nc. don't know what you call expensive slip fees but i paid about five hundred a month for my 36' lancer at mission bay in san diego and less than that when i moved to channel islands harbor where cruising the beautiful channel islands is a mere ten miles off shore.

[skimatsu]

I could well be mistaken but..... I was looking into buying a boat in Ca. Couple of years ago. There would have been a sales tax, maybe 7-8 % if the boat was not taken to Mexico within 60 days. Check in/checkout, and you were good for another 60 days. Not sure about bringing one in from another state. I do know with bringing a car in you pay sales tax when registering.

[duefocena]

Southern California sales tax depends on county 7%-8% one time tax
1% use tax per year.
Documentation fee by CG $80 year
Possessory use tax on slip varies with value of property in Marina ( has nothing to do with what is underneath. The boat ) and ranges. I pay $300 a year on a 67' slip. Most that I know in 30' slips pay $50 or less a year.
If you register instead of document the state reg tax is less than $20 for two years.

[jrbogie]

Originally Posted by skimatsu

I could well be mistaken but..... I was looking into buying a boat in Ca. Couple of years ago. There would have been a sales tax, maybe 7-8 % if the boat was not taken to Mexico within 60 days. Check in/checkout, and you were good for another 60 days. Not sure about bringing one in from another state. I do know with bringing a car in you pay sales tax when registering.

no you don't pay sales tax when registering a car brought in from another state. you're also wrong regarding taking the boat to mexico. if you take possession in ca. sales tax is due at closing.

[jrbogie]

Originally Posted by duefocena

Southern California sales tax depends on county 7%-8% one time tax
1% use tax per year.
Documentation fee by CG $80 year
Possessory use tax on slip varies with value of property in Marina ( has nothing to do with what is underneath. The boat ) and ranges. I pay $300 a year on a 67' slip. Most that I know in 30' slips pay $50 or less a year.
If you register instead of document the state reg tax is less than $20 for two years.

just renewed my uscg doc. for twenty five bucks.

[tdoster]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Ah... I think you'd better do a bit more research on taxes in California. Boats valued at more than $1350 are subject to personal property tax. Further, a boat owner is also commonly assessed taxes on the value of the "real estate" that underlies his slip or mooring, as we were for a slip at the Alamitos Bay YC. And, there is a registration fee that is payable when a yacht is brought into the state and remains for more than 120 days. And, annual registration fees are also assessed. Note that simply leaving the state does not relieve one of the obligation to pay such taxes until one can establish, "...to the satisfaction of the Taxing Authority..." (usually the County in which the boat was located as to personal property taxes) that the yacht is home ported outside the state. Such determination does not relieve one of liability for taxes assessed before such "determination" which may be months or years after the fact. We left California for Florida in early 1992. I continued to get tax bills and threatening letters from the LA County Tax Assessor until 1994 regardless of having sent them a copy of our boat registration in Florida in '92 and finally copies of the closing statements on the sale of our home in Laguna Beach and our purchase of another in Florida also in '92 as proof we no longer lived there. Never-the-less, the "tax delinquency" appeared on my credit report for years afterward. If I was concerned about avoiding excess taxation, California is the last place I'd pick.

FWIW...

PS: Further to your comment that your mast is too tall for the ICW. It is not. One does occasionally have to deal with bridge openings but that really isn't such a big issue once you've done so once or twice which is part and parcel of your learning curve. Moreover, having sailed in California for 30+ years and now Florida, with its "thin" water for 24 years, I'll take Florida. (Note further that our boat is about the same size, draft and air draft as yours and we haven't had any particular problems in Florida.)

I can echo these comments. The State of California is no place to hide from a tax bill. If you don't want to find a bill in the mail after the fact, then best advise is to talk with an attorney versed in this who knows how to structure the sale correctly for your particular circumstances. Just because someone else got away with it... But then again, it seems everyone comes back from vacation in Vegas telling you how much money they won.

[armstrong]

There's a deep marked dredged channel through the Frying Pan Shoals a few miles offshore. Also, unless your mast is extremely tall, passing under the single fixed bridge at Snow's Cut on the ICW shouldn't be a challenge. NC is a great place, good food, nice people, stunning nature. A day's drive from New England. Easy to go North or South. I highly recommend Wilmington Marine Center for it's excellent service and reasonable rates. That's where I keep my boat.

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by jrbogie

i take it that you've yet to buy a boat and if sales tax is an issue you'll pay that in ca. not sure about nc. don't know what you call expensive slip fees but i paid about five hundred a month for my 36' lancer at mission bay in san diego and less than that when i moved to channel islands harbor where cruising the beautiful channel islands is a mere ten miles off shore.

Liveaboard is illegal, not just frowned upon, in Mission Bay. That being said you can rent a transient slip by the month at Driscoll's, but you will pay more because it is a transient slip. And although we always had a spectacular working relationship with the people at Driscoll's, from a strictly liveaboard perspective it isn't the most ideal environment. The boatyard is noisy, dirty, stirs up all kinds of dust which is constantly accumulating on your boat, and there isn't anything much in the way of facilities. They even closed down the cool little lunch place that was once on the backside of the office building. (Darned shame, I loved eating there.) We actually lived aboard there for almost a year, but it wasn't cheap. And about the only "cruising" destinations are going to be south to San Diego Bay, north to Oceanside - Dana Point - Long Beach, or the 110 or so mile trek to Catalina Island. Other than that it's south to Mexico.

The problem with San Diego isn't that you can't find a slip, it's that it's very difficult to find a live aboard slip. Not saying it can't be done, but you may have to spend some time marina hopping and paying the higher transient rates before you settle in someplace. That being said, I don't recall ever thinking our property taxes for our boats were high, but we didn't have a Swan either.

We absolutely loved the weather in San Diego, and having lived in Hawaii we actually preferred the weather in San Diego to Hawaii. Being able to sail all year, and all that dry sunshine was heavenly, not to mention the absence of bugs, especially mosquitos, is huge in my book. We never had a problem with mold or mildew on our boats there. These are all things to me that made a huge difference in the quality of life aboard. We had dinner in the cockpit almost every evening all year long.

On the east coast you have rain, and bugs, and cold, and extreme heat. Here in the Chesapeake Bay we rarely are able to enjoy our cockpit after dark in the marina just because the mosquitos will drive you indoors. At anchor it's much better. But....during the season, short though it is, we love that we can go every single weekend and anchor out and never hit the same anchorage twice because there are so many places to go and things to do.

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

The difference is that use or sales tax on our boat would be close to $20,000. Property tax would most likely be $1800 per year. Some states do not have reciprocity on use tax.

Evading sales tax will severely limit your options. In many areas you must prove that sales tax has been paid at time of purchase and/or pay a use tax.
Why not just live where you want and pay your taxes? $200k for a boat and you balk at paying sales tax? You want to enjoy the benefits of a nice cruising area without paying for it?
Go where you will be happy and pay your taxes...

[duefocena]

Check "The Log" newspaper for liveaboard slips in advertised for rent in San Diego. Kept a catamaran in Mission Bay for a decade and witnessed many liveaboards. I think most of the marinas in Southern California that don't allow liveaboards have a number of people who live on their boats. Seldom enforced in most marinas is a non liveaboard policy. If you create issues it is a quick way to say goodbye.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Hi. You may want to do some research on San Diego and slip availability before you jump. There was a recent discussion about this, a quite good and helpful one, to boot. One of those site Google searches would find it under San Diego.

I would venture to suggest that both air draft and keel draft would be things to check out carefully before committing to the NC choice. No issues, other than the kelp, in SD.

I think Stu nailed it about even getting a slip in Southern Cal.. As I read it the boat is on the East Coast and you have limited sailing experience. How do you plan on getting her to the West Coast and the costs involved? Just food for thought.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by jrbogie

i take it that you've yet to buy a boat and if sales tax is an issue you'll pay that in ca. not sure about nc. don't know what you call expensive slip fees but i paid about five hundred a month for my 36' lancer at mission bay in san diego and less than that when i moved to channel islands harbor where cruising the beautiful channel islands is a mere ten miles off shore.

This thread is not supposed to be about sales tax and use tax. I'm trying to determine if sailing around North Carolina would be too frustrating for someone with limited ocean experience. I do have a boat, it is listed in my sig line and we bought it in Rhode Island last July. I already have a written letter from the California board of equalization stating that as a non resident of California I would not have to pay use tax if the boat is used outside of the state for one year. Your 36' Lancer would probably cost $250 a month in NC.

[TacomaSailor]

We moved our boat to San Diego from Puget Sound 5-years ago and have lived aboard in San Diego for 2.5 years. Here are some realities of life in SoCal

- Income Tax
California will tax you on everything you earn (pension, investments, earned income) no matter where you earn it. My wife receives a nice pension from 32-years work for a large city in Washington. She never worked a day in California but pays tax on her Washington Pension. If you live in California less than 6-months a year the taxable base is prorated otherwise you pay for all your income. You pay approximately 2.5% on the first $58,000 and 6% on the next $22,000 and 8% on the next $21,000.

- Personal Property Tax
San Diego County is 1.18% of the boat’s value. You pay this even if you are not a resident. When we still kept a home in Washington we paid property tax to San Diego

- Sales Tax
8.75% in San Diego on everything you buy

- Use Tax
You pay about 8.25% sales tax on your boat when you bring it into San Diego unless you can prove (receipt from another tax authority) you paid sales tax (called use tax in CA) to another state

- Almost no mooring balls available for liveaboard usage

- Slip Fee
We pay $770 per month for a 40’ slip

- Liveaboard Fee
We pay an ADDITIONAL $250 per month for the privilege of living on our boat. Most marinas are limited by Coastal Commission rules that limit the number of liveaboards to 10% of the total number of slips

- Very expensive cost of living
Gasoline in San Diego is consistently $0.85 more than anywhere else in the country. Food prices are 10% - 20% more than in Washington State. Restaurants and bars are often tourist prices (unless you know the locals). Apartment rents are exorbitant.

- Expensive utilities
Our marina charges $10 per month to connect to shore power and $0.25 KwH for the electricity. Our bill runs about $85/month Dec - June when we have to run an electric heater when the outside temp drops below 55, which is about 20-nights a month.

- Very expensive boat mechanics
The average low cost mechanic rate is $60/hour and most yards charge $90/hour

- Very strict environmental rules
Almost no useful bottom paint is allowed. You can’t sand over the water. You have to do a super tarp job to work on the boat in a yard…etc

- Very limited “Cruising” and almost no anchorage are available
Almost all sailing you do, outside San Diego Bay, is in the Pacific Ocean with it's swell, wind, fog, big ships, navy ships, fishing boats. There are NO casual anchorages along the California coast from Pt Conception to the Mexican border.

San Diego bay does not allow overnight anchoring without a permit and only 3-days in a month with a permit. Some anchorages only allow anchoring on weekends.

Mission Bay anchorage is only 4-miles North from our slip on Harbor Island- but you have to go 7-miles SSW to clear Pt Loma which makes it a 14-mile trip, six of it in the ocean. There is very limited anchorage room there and a tightly enforced 3-day limit.

Oceanside is the next stopping place going north and is 36NM NW from Pt Loma. There is NO anchorage in Oceanside.

Dana Point is 22 miles up the coast from Oceanside and Newport is another 13 miles up the coast from Dana Pt. There may be some short term anchorage space in each of those harbors.

Catalina Island is 68 to 75 NM WNW across open Pacific Ocean water from Pt Loma, depending on which anchorage you pick on Catalina. There are some “free” anchorages on the island but are quite removed from anyplace to go ashore. Mooring balls are very expensive and often all reserved.

Ensenada is the first stop going south from San Diego and is about 66 NM. But, you need a lot of paperwork to go there and it will cost you $25 or more dollars. And, you and everyone on board need a US Passport. Returning to the US will cost you $27 when you check in at the Shelter Island customs dock. There are no anchorage near Ensenada.

The Coronado Islands are just 18NM south of our slip and used to be a nice day sail or even overnight destination because they have good fishing and diving. But, now you need a Visa and cruising permit to visit the island. You need the cruising permit ANYTIME you sail south of the border, even if you have no plans to touch shore. Oh, and an expensive fishing license if you have any fishing tackle on board. And, that fishing license must be held by every one of your guest. Boat Forfeiture is the penalty.

- The more isolated and exotic island destinations west of Santa Barbara can be a challenge
The anchorages are deep and exposed to many of the winds. The winds in the northern and western islands can really howl for days at a time. The islands are spectacular and very enjoyable for an experienced cruiser

- Every US cruising destination is upwind-upswell
The wind blows from the WNW to NNW about 325 days a year and the swell from the NW is almost always 3’ to 5’ at 10 to 12 seconds. So, any cruise is always into the wind and swell.

- Perfect weather in San Diego
It is never hot nor cold. The wind blows 10 – 20 knots in San Diego Bay almost every afternoon from 1 PM till sunset. You can sail 7NM from Shelter or Harbor Island (location of most of the marinas) to SD1 (the entrance buoy out in the Pacific) and then turn around and sail 12NM to the South Bay and back to your home slip and get about 30 NM of good sailing that varies from biggish ocean swells to 12’ calm water in the South Bay.

We love San Diego liveaboard life and have no plans to leave. But, we do pay a significant 'sunshine tax' for the joy of living here.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I think Stu nailed it about even getting a slip in Southern Cal.. As I read it the boat is on the East Coast and you have limited sailing experience. How do you plan on getting her to the West Coast and the costs involved? Just food for thought.

A I have previously posted, I contacted three different marinas in San Diego and Ventura, they all have slips.

[Kia Ora]

Limited cruising options from San Diego???

Great day sailing in the extensive San Diego Bay.

Short trips within 1 day's sail include Ensenada to the South, and Oceanside and Dana Point to the North.

A bit further (1 long day or broken into 2 days) include Newport Beach, Long Beach, San Pedro, multiple spots on Catalina, Kings Harbor, Marina del Rey.

Further North includes Oxnard, Ventura, Channel Islands, and Santa Barbara.

That's a lot of cruising options.