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Old 23-02-2016, 18:02   #16
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I can't comment on the East Coast possibilities... never sailed there.

Jim
Yeah, we know you have never sailed East Coast Jim because you think being out in the Chesapeake Bay in heavy weather is no big deal.

Because you can sail OFFSHORE in a gale where you have many miles to run downwind or heave too during a storm doesn't mean you can deal with similar conditions in the bay with all it's thin water, obstacles, ship channels, boat traffic, and bridges
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Old 23-02-2016, 18:50   #17
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

I would point out that if you have owned the boat a year in RI there will be no sales/use tax due in Fl.
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Old 23-02-2016, 19:01   #18
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Yeah, we know you have never sailed East Coast Jim because you think being out in the Chesapeake Bay in heavy weather is no big deal.

Because you can sail OFFSHORE in a gale where you have many miles to run downwind or heave too during a storm doesn't mean you can deal with similar conditions in the bay with all it's thin water, obstacles, ship channels, boat traffic, and bridges
He simply disagreed with your claims in that other post. This was really unnecessary. Besides, Jim has sailed a LOT more than you have, and maybe ever will. Credibility has its virtues.
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Old 23-02-2016, 19:02   #19
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

I prefer East coast sailing. You can sail up and down east coast without problems; you don't need to sail to UK to get to NYC.

In West coast you can only sail south and no ICW to duck in. In east coast we have the whole Caribbean island chain just a short hop from Florida. From SD, French Polynesia is 3000 nm away......
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Old 23-02-2016, 19:48   #20
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

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I would point out that if you have owned the boat a year in RI there will be no sales/use tax due in Fl.
If you keep a boat in Florida more than 90 days (or 180 if it is being worked on) you have to register it, something most states require with similar time limits. The registration is somewhat similar to a use tax. Depending on how old the boat is and how much it is worth registration cost almost nothing to maybe a couple of hundred dollars. Not that it applies to you if you owned the boat for more than a year but Florida also has a max of $US18,000 sales tax on boats.

While costs vary widely depending on where you are located in Florida (and most other states for that matter) there is a reason so many folks keep their boats in Florida. Lots of great places to sail, lots of facilities to store, maintain, and live aboard your boat, no income tax, and it is not called the Sunshine State as a joke.

Not claiming there is no downside to living/sailing in Florida; just that a lot of folks are doing it.
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Old 23-02-2016, 20:03   #21
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

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If you keep a boat in Florida more than 90 days (or 180 if it is being worked on) you have to register it, something most states require with similar time limits. The registration is somewhat similar to a use tax. Depending on how old the boat is and how much it is worth registration cost almost nothing to maybe a couple of hundred dollars. Not that it applies to you if you owned the boat for more than a year but Florida also has a max of $US18,000 sales tax on boats.

While costs vary widely depending on where you are located in Florida (and most other states for that matter) there is a reason so many folks keep their boats in Florida. Lots of great places to sail, lots of facilities to store, maintain, and live aboard your boat, no income tax, and it is not called the Sunshine State as a joke.

Not claiming there is no downside to living/sailing in Florida; just that a lot of folks are doing it.
Florida "use tax" is the specific name for a Florida tax that is the equivalent of the sales tax. If you own the boat less than 6 months and you have not paid the equivalent sales tax in another state you owe Florida "Use Tax". It is currently 6.5% with a county 1% option, so it does matter which county you register it in. If you are a Florida resident when you buy the boat it doesn't matter how long you own it you still owe the tax unless you paid that amount or more in another state.

Registration fees vary a little by county, but a 43 ft boat runs about $140/yr.
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Old 23-02-2016, 20:05   #22
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

There's a big deal in SC with property tax but in NC the taxes are lots lower. The marinas are cheapest in NC than most anywhere in the US and gives access to large bodies of water, Pamlico, Albemarle sounds (spelling?). The ocean gives options to many locations as list above. I wouldnt give frying pan shoal a worry. You can easily go around it if needed. There are many deep water marinas with good access to the ocean. I would say hang out in NC for a while a check it out. You wont be disapointed.
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Old 23-02-2016, 21:15   #23
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Yeah, we know you have never sailed East Coast Jim because you think being out in the Chesapeake Bay in heavy weather is no big deal.

Because you can sail OFFSHORE in a gale where you have many miles to run downwind or heave too during a storm doesn't mean you can deal with similar conditions in the bay with all it's thin water, obstacles, ship channels, boat traffic, and bridges
Thomm225,

During the time we were practicing, before we ever left San Francisco for offshore, we did go out one time when a winter storm was predicted, to practice with our storm jib, and make sure we could do everything we needed to do when the wind was over 50. We did it because we wanted to learn while still in protected waters. SF Bay, too, also has a lot of thin water, obstacles, shipping channels, ship and boat traffic, and one of its many bridges is world renowned. Jim did not write that being out in the Chesapeake in heavy weather was no big deal: he wrote that it is not the same as being at sea, because of the larger seas, swells, and occasionally various currents running in directions opposing one's course.

It is you who wrote about running off in a gale, not he. We, mostly, during our gales have continued under shortened sail, on our course, slowed down to ease things for ourselves and the boat. Rarely, we have run off briefly to accomplish some task. We have heaved to, also, on occasion.

Please do not mistake a simple statement of fact for a personal attack; no personal attack was made.

* * * *

To the OP,

Sorry for the thread drift!

What I'd suggest is get some paper charts for the east coast from your Harbor in RI to the south of FL. Mark all the areas on the chart that do not have enough water for your draft at low water. Use colored pencil, so you can erase it if you want. Check the air draft relative to your mast height.

Soon some potential routes will emerge. To start with, if possible, think in terms of about 20 n. mi. per day, or less. This gives an easy day, and time for you and your wife to think about all of it before supper time. Maybe you'll find that's too short a day. Good, but you get the idea. It is important to become self-reliant with your decisions. There are lots of resources for information on the east coast. Start small and easy, stop somewhere to enjoy it, move on. Have a list of places you'd like to visit, and see how you can make it happen. This is all supposed to be fun. Having ready access to the Atlantic will give you ocean experience. Maybe you'll meet someone along the way who would like a ride on the ocean with you in exchange for their coaching you. Mentoring is a good deal. Such people are happy to share hard earned knowledge. It is a world which, although having a few pitfalls, also abounds in the kindness of strangers.

There may also be some CF'ers along the way you'd like to meet.

Cheers,

Ann
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Old 24-02-2016, 04:52   #24
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Thomm225,

During the time we were practicing, before we ever left San Francisco for offshore, we did go out one time when a winter storm was predicted, to practice with our storm jib, and make sure we could do everything we needed to do when the wind was over 50. We did it because we wanted to learn while still in protected waters. SF Bay, too, also has a lot of thin water, obstacles, shipping channels, ship and boat traffic, and one of its many bridges is world renowned. Jim did not write that being out in the Chesapeake in heavy weather was no big deal: he wrote that it is not the same as being at sea, because of the larger seas, swells, and occasionally various currents running in directions opposing one's course.

It is you who wrote about running off in a gale, not he. We, mostly, during our gales have continued under shortened sail, on our course, slowed down to ease things for ourselves and the boat. Rarely, we have run off briefly to accomplish some task. We have heaved to, also, on occasion.
Ok Ann.

I'm not going to get into it with both you and Jim. Too much fire power there.

Jim spoke as if I'd be clueless in a gale offshore based on how I handled squalls in the bay. He jump to conclusions thinking this is how I would handle every "heavy weather" situation.

I basically responded that since I haven't been in weather 300 miles offshore what I would do first would be run before the gale and figure things out from there with the possibility of using a drogue or heaving too since my boat is only 27' with 6600 lbs disp. (I might even be able to continue sailing my course, I'd have to see though) I'd have to figure it out based on years of experience on small boats (both sailboats and power) near shore which includes multiple pitchpoles sailing, surfing boats, being at water level in a boat completely full of water, and so on.

I would also base my offshore heavy weather tactics on experience gained from sailing down the bay in 30 mph winds from Onancock to Kiptopeke with one reef and jib fully deployed for 5 hours where I really had no problems once I cleared the creek. To be clear, the wind increased way beyond that which was forecasted and I was already out there with no real options other than sail. No port to run to because the creeks are all too shallow in that area and I had to sail or be pushed into the shallow water. Wind was NW and I was on the Eastern side of the bay maybe 2 miles off. The trip was maybe 8-9 hours with the strong winds lasting maybe hours

As for as cruising and practicing in weather, I have other responsibilities at the moment. (medical with a family member) so I cannot run away to sea especially crossing oceans in heavy weather.

But soon maybe
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Old 24-02-2016, 06:55   #25
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

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We are going to be moving aboard our boat later this year or next year. We have still not decided east coast vs west coast. We bought the boat at its current home (Rhode Island) and after a year the only two tax free (warm) options seem to be North Carolina or Southern California. ...
Ah... I think you'd better do a bit more research on taxes in California. Boats valued at more than $1350 are subject to personal property tax. Further, a boat owner is also commonly assessed taxes on the value of the "real estate" that underlies his slip or mooring, as we were for a slip at the Alamitos Bay YC. And, there is a registration fee that is payable when a yacht is brought into the state and remains for more than 120 days. And, annual registration fees are also assessed. Note that simply leaving the state does not relieve one of the obligation to pay such taxes until one can establish, "...to the satisfaction of the Taxing Authority..." (usually the County in which the boat was located as to personal property taxes) that the yacht is home ported outside the state. Such determination does not relieve one of liability for taxes assessed before such "determination" which may be months or years after the fact. We left California for Florida in early 1992. I continued to get tax bills and threatening letters from the LA County Tax Assessor until 1994 regardless of having sent them a copy of our boat registration in Florida in '92 and finally copies of the closing statements on the sale of our home in Laguna Beach and our purchase of another in Florida also in '92 as proof we no longer lived there. Never-the-less, the "tax delinquency" appeared on my credit report for years afterward. If I was concerned about avoiding excess taxation, California is the last place I'd pick.

FWIW...

PS: Further to your comment that your mast is too tall for the ICW. It is not. One does occasionally have to deal with bridge openings but that really isn't such a big issue once you've done so once or twice which is part and parcel of your learning curve. Moreover, having sailed in California for 30+ years and now Florida, with its "thin" water for 24 years, I'll take Florida. (Note further that our boat is about the same size, draft and air draft as yours and we haven't had any particular problems in Florida.)
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Old 24-02-2016, 08:45   #26
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

In SC the maximum sales tax is $300.00 and the property tax for out of Charleston County is 6%/yr based on current value of boat. IF boat stays in SC for over 180 days/ yr, then you get charged property tax. Charleston is an excellent harbor with no restriction on mast height if you are coming from offshore. 3 marinas in main harbor, Charleston City Marina, Charleston Harbor Marina and one other, I forgot name. Good jumping off spot for Chesapeade and New England going north and Florida and the Bahamas going south.
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Old 24-02-2016, 09:10   #27
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

Check out Virginia - which would give you access to deep water cruising in the Chesapeake. I thought I read that documented vessels were free from use tax in Virginia. Maybe someone can comment on that option.
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Old 24-02-2016, 09:14   #28
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Yeah, we know you have never sailed East Coast Jim because you think being out in the Chesapeake Bay in heavy weather is no big deal.

Because you can sail OFFSHORE in a gale where you have many miles to run downwind or heave too during a storm doesn't mean you can deal with similar conditions in the bay with all it's thin water, obstacles, ship channels, boat traffic, and bridges

Thomm, not that Jim Cate needs me to come to his defense but you have underestimated his experience and perhaps overestimated your own. He and Ann are among the most knowledgeable, experienced, evenhanded and, therefore, respected contributed on this forum.

From my own experience I can say that I began sailing 47 years ago on the Chesapeake Bay. I experienced my first thunderstorm under sail with my wife, 4 month old daughter and a cat on board between Baltimore and Middle River. It was frightening indeed. Wind and waves I'd never seen before. And I learned much from the experience which helped me prepare for more learning at sea. Now, many years and sea miles later I can say that the Bay (which has its own challenges and dangers) is not the ocean. Distances, depths, currents make a difference.



S/V B'Shert
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Old 24-02-2016, 09:15   #29
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

Holy #*%:! 6% per year! Cali. doesn't seem that bad after all.


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Old 24-02-2016, 09:37   #30
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Re: Southern Ca VS North Carolina

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Thomm, not that Jim Cate needs me to come to his defense but you have underestimated his experience and perhaps overestimated your own. He and Ann are among the most knowledgeable, experienced, evenhanded and, therefore, respected contributed on this forum.

From my own experience I can say that I began sailing 47 years ago on the Chesapeake Bay. I experienced my first thunderstorm under sail with my wife, 4 month old daughter and a cat on board between Baltimore and Middle River. It was frightening indeed. Wind and waves I'd never seen before. And I learned much from the experience which helped me prepare for more learning at sea. Now, many years and sea miles later I can say that the Bay (which has its own challenges and dangers) is not the ocean. Distances, depths, currents make a difference.



S/V B'Shert
See email to Ann above.

I know what Jim's (and Ann's) experiences are and respect them. It's just that he and I got into it a while back and continue to jab at each other from time to time when we are in the mood to do so. (he's not real big on the beach cat videos I continue to post when I feel nostalgic about my racing years)

It's not that big a deal, and I usually learn something or remember something during the process. This time it was digging for clams back in the day for a snack lunch that I remembered.

Because of that, I may retry sailing north of Fisherman's Island again and under the bridge over to the Seaside to a deep water spot (20' plus), anchor and then kayak around exploring on and around the Barrier Islands for fish, clams, etc. It's very shallow back in there though and you can get caught having to wait for high tide to get out. It would be a great anchorage though to spend a weekend reading, kayaking, fishing, and arguing (discussing!) on CF because I can get internet from there with my Verizon Jetpack. There's a tower near Kiptopeke.
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