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Old 08-08-2013, 23:38   #1
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So Here's the Plan

i've spent decades on and off dreaming of liveaboard cruising. i've finally decided to do it. Probably should have learned to sail by now...

Sailing the plan is to buy a cheap little boat to learn the basics and eventually to take classes to get a captains license. i might skipp step 1 by offering to crew for someone.

i plan on buying the boat asap as im horrible with money.. if my friends or family need money i... give it to them... just dont value it. if i have a boat sitting there though thats where the money will go.

The boat: The boat has to be bluewater capable. More than 27 feet. 35' or less for economic reasons. As roomy as possible. Right now i'm thinking a Morgan out island 33. the price range is perfect. i may even arrange a trade (my car is pretty sweet and theoretically wont need it). ive heard good things about their blue water capability and their owners love them. Any thoughts? Other suggestions? im good with a project.. that will sail from day 1. Theres nothing i cant do but im not spending 5 years covered in fiberglass before i see the water. i can repair/replace the engine. clean the bottom. Rewire the boat from scratch etc though.

Where: i live 2 hours from myrtle beach. i'm thinking find a cheap slip near there or put it on the hard while i work on it/when i'm working to save the ridiculous slip fees. The other alternative is to have a trailer built for it or rent a drop deck ( >> i'm a trucker<<) and keep it here when im not cruising.

Fitting out: im thinking other than basics (im a trucker i know better than any sailor how to live in a small space) the following:
Radar???????? is it necessary ?
Satphone?
Roller furling?
Fishing gear? Crossbow? Speargun?
Scuba gear..
Electronics storeage? (is there even a way to keep humid salt air from destroying laptops etc?)


i have to do this now. Tired of my current career and dont want to go back into SEO/programming work and compte w indians who work for $1 a day. if i go back to trucking it will be 5 years before i think about it again and i want to visit every country before i die.

id love any suggestions. For money i'm thinking trucking when i'm home but dont want to. i live a frugal lifestyle and am thinking eventually SEO and android app programming and maybe legally importing some stuff from my trips and ebaying them.
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Old 09-08-2013, 00:22   #2
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Re: So here's the plan

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Originally Posted by cdreid View Post
i've finally decided to do it... i plan on buying the boat asap as im horrible with money.
Excellent choice!

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Originally Posted by cdreid View Post
Any thoughts? Other suggestions?
Sounds like you are pretty handy. I would recommend looking at lots of used boats. It is super fun and you will learn a lot about what is in your price range. I would worry more about finding a boat in good shape in your price range and keeping an open mind about what make to buy. That will not limit your options to just one or two boats for sail. Not many Morgan OI33 out there. Get something with decent sails, engine, and standing rigging.

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i have to do this now. Tired of my current career and dont want to go back into SEO/programming work and compte w indians who work for $1 a day. if i go back to trucking it will be 5 years before i think about it again and i want to visit every country before i die.
Sounds like you have the right attitude. Good luck with your search!
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Old 09-08-2013, 00:32   #3
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Re: So here's the plan

The reason for the model is it's one of the few i see positives about re bluewater from everyone about. Most real bluewater boats in the 40+ foot range seem cramped... this seems perfect living space wise. i can make more money for more boat but.. well then im just working to give the marina and the bank income while i never see the water.. And ty for the encouragement.
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Old 09-08-2013, 00:35   #4
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Re: So here's the plan

Honest injun, I thought I was the only working stiff who placed such low value on money. I don't even think to count how much I have given away, this includes furniture I've built paid with my own money. Blood, sweat, and tears are extra but freely given.

A friend who was long time trucker and who trained many a noob went off to get his EE degree. He is the happier for it. There ain't no romance in current day saddle tramps.

I don't know a thing about your section of the coast except it is beautiful. As for equipment, why don't you ask local sailors what all you'll need. Radar is always a good investment especially for coast wise.

ixnay the satphone. Do go with the spear gun, especially a reel gun.

If I'm wrong about the Morgan someone will correct me. My opinion it was built to niche marketing...to satisfy the boater (not sailor) who fancied themselves to have a real going 'yacht'. It carried the options of the Caribbean charters but was affordable (subjective) to the neophyte. Check the hull for crazing, the mast step, the pulpit, the hull seam. R & R the winches.
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Old 09-08-2013, 16:11   #5
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Re: So here's the plan

Richard i agree from the reviews i read. They all expected it to be a hunter etc but were satisfied it could handle bluewater with a little work.. downside was sloooow into the wind and not enough ballast. Works for me.

The one i'm looking at is a little tooo cheap... needs cleaned up and painted and engine work i think.. but the salesman wants to "talk".. after i asked about the hull and about 10 other questions. So im thinking he's going to try to softpeddle some blistering or delamination. i'll check all the above thanks. May just wait for a nicer one to pop up... their price range for a seaworthy boat in liveable shape is just right.

And yes trucking has gone to h***. Nothing but deadly newbs on the road.. the experienced drivers are all going local or getting oout
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:51   #6
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Re: So Here's the Plan

Cdreid, It might be a good idea to define what you mean by a "bluewater" boat. I've lived aboard Morgan Out Islands for about forty years and thirteen of them on a 33'. I love these boats and they suit me well, but I'm not one to consider them as "bluewater" by my definition. What are your cruising expectations?
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Old 10-08-2013, 13:40   #7
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Re: So Here's the Plan

Have a 33OI an I concur with owners loving them... They are incredibly awesome boats in some respects, and completely unsuitable for others who desire different attributes in a boat....

That being said, I don't think you will find more boat for your money... I don't use mine nearly enough to justify keeping her, but have a hard time when I consider her sale.... They can be had cheap and rough for 5k, plus 10-15k to bring to decent condition... 25k gets you one like mine... ready to go with electronics, radar etc....

Send me a PM... I recently spent a lot of time helping another CF member get one, I would be happy to help you too!
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Old 10-08-2013, 14:42   #8
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Re: So here's the plan

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Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
........................... If I'm wrong about the Morgan someone will correct me. My opinion it was built to niche marketing...to satisfy the boater (not sailor) who fancied themselves to have a real going 'yacht'. It carried the options of the Caribbean charters but was affordable (subjective) to the neophyte. Check the hull for crazing, the mast step, the pulpit, the hull seam. R & R the winches.
I'm not pressing to corret an opinion, but I'll share mine. I moved to my Morgan OI 33 from a high performance Sparkman & Stephens design and with more than a dozen years of previous sailing. I recognize the Morgan OI is not a performance design, but it throughly a sailboat and performs as others with similar shoal draft, beamy and near full keel. During the forty years that I've lived aboard and sailed these Out Islands,- 28 on my 41'. I've had many good days with as much as 150 miles in a day at best. We had a rough day to windward from Spanish Wells to Little Harbor in the Bahamas with eight other boats who were taking the best the weather had to offer after a week's wait and we completed the day third in the fleet. I posted above that I did not consider the Morgan OI as "Bluewater", but standards are vague. The hull is thick and the vessel is heavy, but the shoal draft would not make for the easiest ride. The rig is strong an the exterior chainplates excel, but it's a huge interior to set up for offshore safety. ...and there is no question that it's slow compared to many boats that could better cross a questionable weather opportunity. As for sailing, it requires the same skill to make it perform at it's best as any sailboat and it can produce as much satisfaction at it's performance level as my Sparkman and Stephens. There are things to look for that would require inspection and concern. The early models ca. '71 to '76 had the hull-deck joint at the rub rail and this is a vulnerable location that may have been damaged in a used boat. I have no such damage, but I have also refit my rail with G-Flex epoxy under the rubber rail mainly to prevent rain leaks. Another important inspection is the rudder. Many of these have had problems with port-starboard delamination. I rebult these rudders on both of my Out Islands and included a fiberglass tabbing on the final seam. Some have had problems with the corrosion of the back up plate under the stem head fitting where the forestay attaches. A wise refit can include an additional SS bow plate bracing this fitting from the outside of the stem. The mast step is steel and needs attenion to prevent corrosion at the base of the aluminum mast. I replaced my spruce speaders with aluminum, but you'll only find the wood spreaders on the earlier models. I never had any significant blisterrs on either of my Morgans, but I have had areas on the deck where the end grain balsa core was water damaged producing soft spots. This is a cosmetic, not a structural problem. The hull is not cored and neither are the coamings or structural areas. I have repaired about 8 square feet of the deck with good results. Many other things are typically in need of refit and repair on any forty year old boat. Morgans are strong cruisers for my purposes and there is no operational definition for a "bluewater" boat. I choose the best of weather for my coastal cruising and I'm confident that my Morgan would handle more than I'm willing to endure; however, my definition of "bluewater" would be more restrictive and limited.
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Old 10-08-2013, 14:55   #9
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Re: So here's the plan

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Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
I'm not pressing to corret an opinion, but I'll share mine. I moved to my Morgan OI 33 from a high performance Sparkman & Stephens design and with more than a dozen years of previous sailing. I recognize the Morgan OI is not a performance design, but it throughly a sailboat and performs as others with similar shoal draft, beamy and near full keel. During the forty years that I've lived aboard and sailed these Out Islands,- 28 on my 41'. I've had many good days with as much as 150 miles in a day at best. We had a rough day to windward from Spanish Wells to Little Harbor in the Bahamas with eight other boats who were taking the best the weather had to offer after a week's wait and we completed the day third in the fleet. I posted above that I did not consider the Morgan OI as "Bluewater", but standards are vague. The hull is thick and the vessel is heavy, but the shoal draft would not make for the easiest ride. The rig is strong an the exterior chainplates excel, but it's a huge interior to set up for offshore safety. ...and there is no question that it's slow compared to many boats that could better cross a questionable weather opportunity. As for sailing, it requires the same skill to make it perform at it's best as any sailboat and it can produce as much satisfaction at it's performance level as my Sparkman and Stephens. There are things to look for that would require inspection and concern. The early models ca. '71 to '76 had the hull-deck joint at the rub rail and this is a vulnerable location that may have been damaged in a used boat. I have no such damage, but I have also refit my rail with G-Flex epoxy under the rubber rail mainly to prevent rain leaks. Another important inspection is the rudder. Many of these have had problems with port-starboard delamination. I rebult these rudders on both of my Out Islands and included a fiberglass tabbing on the final seam. Some have had problems with the corrosion of the back up plate under the stem head fitting where the forestay attaches. A wise refit can include an additional SS bow plate bracing this fitting from the outside of the stem. The mast step is steel and needs attenion to prevent corrosion at the base of the aluminum mast. I replaced my spruce speaders with aluminum, but you'll only find the wood spreaders on the earlier models. I never had any significant blisterrs on either of my Morgans, but I have had areas on the deck where the end grain balsa core was water damaged producing soft spots. This is a cosmetic, not a structural problem. The hull is not cored and neither are the coamings or structural areas. I have repaired about 8 square feet of the deck with good results. Many other things are typically in need of refit and repair on any forty year old boat. Morgans are strong cruisers for my purposes and there is no operational definition for a "bluewater" boat. I choose the best of weather for my coastal cruising and I'm confident that my Morgan would handle more than I'm willing to endure; however, my definition of "bluewater" would be more restrictive and limited.
Great Post Cap'n!
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:49   #10
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Re: So Here's the Plan

Thanks for all the advice and info!

By bluewater capable i mean something that will get me across an ocean sans horrible luck (which no design of man can overcome). im about the destination not the journey. i need a boat i can sail the coasts for a year or two to learn. Then when im ready take off to europe and hop around there for a year etc. i agree shoal draft isnt ideal.. but it has huge advantages when your Not in the deep ocean. Honestly id rather have a twin keel but those are hard to find. And i want a boat that isnt built like a disposeable racer.. imho no such thing as "too thick hull". Frankly it amazes me how new yacht buyers let the industry rip them off. it's almost like a point of pride among a certain set.
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Old 11-08-2013, 13:51   #11
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Re: So Here's the Plan

cdreid, If you go with the Morgan I would suggest the following in addition to those checks that I mentioned in my post above. If you buy an Out Island with the ports set in the rubber gaskets note that these portlights are actually smaller than the holes they cover and a set by the gaskets alone. Remove these and use polycarbonate (Lexan) portlights (3/8" minimum) that are fastened from the outside so that the force of the wave sets them against the hull. Throughly inspect and replace old and suspect standing and running rigging. Don't make a passage according to your schedule, but by the best seasonal weather and track. Stow your dinghy on deck; use a harness and jackline; add grab rails below and refit lock downs on your lockers, lids and covers. Also, arrange for a self steering system that does not rely on more power than you can easily maintain at a minimum. I met a man in Lauderdale last year who brought his Morgan OI 41' back from Australia. These boats are very well balanced with the proper sail selection. He reported to me that most of his self steering was accomplished with some line and bungie cords and small blocks with a tie to the tiller. I've never set up such a steering rig, but I bet Boatman61 has done this. I keep my electric autopilot powered with solar panels, a wind generator and a back up 7KW diesel generater.
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Old 11-08-2013, 14:23   #12
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I just bought an Alberg 30 which allowed me to get into blue water cruising much more affordably than I thought poss. My runner up A30 is still listed on craigslist in DC for $5,000 firm. An amazing deal IMHO :-)

Cheers, Paul.
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Old 11-08-2013, 14:51   #13
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pirate Re: So Here's the Plan

Hi... Welcome to Cf... nice plan.

Radar???????? is it necessary ?
Nope... but many swear by it... for me just one more needless expense..

Satphone?
Only if your own company bores you...

Roller furling?
A definite must for long distance cruising..

Fishing gear? Crossbow? Speargun?
Rod and line and a speargun if your into fish... skip the Crossbow... more potential trouble than they're worth..

Scuba gear..
Fins, mask and snorkel should be enough.. unless you want to cart the refill gear around with you... IMO more PITA than its worth..

Electronics storeage? (is there even a way to keep humid salt air from destroying laptops etc?)
Easy peasy... been using Zip-lock style bags for years now and never had a problem... mind I only have em on long enough to do any nav stuff I need then zip em up again..
Will suggest a VHF with AIS that you can link to your laptop nav station... keep you updated with shipping on foggy days... not much use for land but then that's what nav courses are for... learning how to use chart datum to keep ya floating...

As for emergency self steering (ST2000 fan but they can fail) I just use bungee cords tensioned for the weather... the rest is down to proper sail trim and not having to much sail up for them to deal with.
The other ways using sheets etc is just to much for me to bother with... if I can get 20 - 30mins of steady course I'm happy. Being a near full keel yours should track well enough once you get the feel of her helm and the requisite tensions...
Good Luck mate and keep us posted..
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Old 11-08-2013, 15:54   #14
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Hello cd,

You and I may be twins! Sitting here at the J in Resaca, GA trolling the forums. I am on a five year plan. With a good fleet manager..which I have...for now, and selling my current boat, I should be very close to debt free within the next 6 months. Once I make the decision to do this, it's truckin, truckin, and more truckin.

I want to buy something that is as close to turn key as possible. Yes, I could buy one that needs some work, but with two days home every three weeks, where am I gonna find the time. Heck, my current boat hasn't been used in 5 years. You know how us drivers are. First day home all I want to do is sleep all day.

I absolutely love Morgans. Like the aft-cabin, and the interior room. I also like the center cockpit design. You know how we ride out here on the big road...go, go, go, go....wait,wait,wait,wait!!! I will likely get a tear in my eye if I can get away from 285 in ATL, or the traffic in the Northeast!!

If I did do the liveaboard thing, I'd have to leave South Florida. Hugely expensive for slips down here.

So far I am just lurking, and making lists of what I want. Radar, or FLIR first mate for seeing at night. Electric auto pilot, or windvane?? Definitely want good SSB radio. Like you, I can do woodwork, wiring, and some other stuff. Engines, other than filter changes I leave to the professionals. Not gonna get a "Valve Jobs for Dummies" book, and be doing it on the sleeper. External stuff I can do. Internal...not so much.

I am also "sick and tired of being sick and tired" Losing my best friend last year to cancer, and now an engagement that has gone south has me thinking. You know that is a dangerous thing to be thinking all day long behind the wheel!!!

Hopefully soon we'll both be sitting on the decks of our prospective boats remembering the days when all you'd hear is..

"Swift!!!!! What the fork are you doing!!"
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Old 12-08-2013, 00:00   #15
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Re: So Here's the Plan

Thanks a Ton everybody. Captforce ive read a bit about portholes being a particular problem with the more coastal designs so was thinking i should replace them with thicker lexan. i have a 27' cabin cruiser that has been sitting in my yard for near a decade and dealing w it has taught me some things.. wood bad.. dry good.. clean good.. airy good...

Fishin youll never get where your goin bro. i know.. one more check.. one more run... youll be dead of a heart attack or diabetes before you 'get there'... and you gave up your friends and family for it.. not worth it bro.. your from fla which limits your options but get out of Otr bro... the road ends in death one way or the other.

Pay off your bills. Sell your old boat and buy your new one. Hand in your keys and go climb aboard. we both know you can have a new job in 2 days if you need it but dreamin n drivin leads to more dreamin and drivin

im currently waiting on this company to pay me a few grand it owes me. i owe no money. i have some stuff i can sell. have decent credit but just quit so i should be able to swing this. its just tempting to "run one morooe run.. a few moore mooonths.. a little more money"....
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