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Old 07-09-2015, 07:55   #46
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
Well, as long as nothing breaks, perhaps... ;-)

The forces that can come into play aboard boats of such size can be truly impressive, indeed even lethal. Unfortunately, we were reminded of this in recent days, with the death of one of the crew aboard one of the Clipper Race 60-footers, when something went amiss while reefing the main in Force 6 conditions...

Not to mention, the late Andrew Ashman, 50, was a pretty experienced sailor, and had been sailing since the age of 16... Probably just me, but recommending 60+ footers as a 'starter boat' for newbies is just something I'm not entirely comfortable with...

;-)
"The horror, the horror....." Colonel Kurtz (Apocalyse Now)
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:36   #47
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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"The horror, the horror....." Colonel Kurtz (Apocalyse Now)
"The horror, the horror . . ." Kurtz, Heart of Darkness, Joseph Conrad, 1899
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:08   #48
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Sure you are right but I can't see air draft being an issue and the comforts offered by a larger boat with more space and more resource outweighs the draft issue.......
You said you wanted to do the coasts of the U.S. If you plan on the Intracoastal Waterway air draft will indeed be an issue with fixed bridges at 64'. I saw that an Oyster 62 has an air draft of 89'.
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:11   #49
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Your post would suggest that experienced people are having difficulty as well.....there are certain events that experience can't effect....ever flown the Atlantic in a single engine aeroplane? doesn't matter if you have Chuck Yeager on board if the engine stops...

Obviously there is a risk associated with all activities....lets no over dramatise it, more people die on the roads etc....
No, all I am suggesting, is that as boat size increases, most people's physical ability to deal with the potential forces and loads diminishes rather quickly... And, with newbies learning how to sail aboard large yachts, the potential for breaking stuff has gotta be right up there ;-)

For instance, if I were to suffer a gooseneck breakage on a Leisure-Furl boom in a gale at sea, I would much prefer at that moment to be aboard a 45-footer, rather than a 65-footer... On the smaller boat, at least I might stand a fighting chance to try to secure the whole mess, before it did serious further damage, or injured any of the crew...

Worse case scenario, if I had been dismasted, and needed to jettison the rig before it punched a hole in the hull, I'd rather it be aboard an Outbound 46, as opposed to an Oyster 625... But perhaps that's just me...

I know, this sort of stuff never happens, anyway... Gear failures of any kind are extremely rare aboard modern large and complex yachts, and all the buttons always work, whenever they're pushed...

Like I said, I'm just a wimp, I guess... But to me, size definitely does matter...

;-)
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:14   #50
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Size does matter. A larger boat gives you more safety, more comfort, and more expense. Marinas charge by the foot for docking, boatyards charge by the foot for hull and topsides work, and maintenance costs go up, maybe exponentially. If expense is not a big issue, then a larger boat is the right way to go. Many boats in the 60+ range will have equipment such as electric winches and electric or hydraulic furling that make sail handling easier. Many will have twin wheels which makes sailing and docking easier. And don't buy one that doesn't have a bow thruster.

In some places you will have no choice but to go into a marina. Personally, I prefer to anchor out, and on a 60+ boat you can carry enough chain and a big enough anchor to be secure and comfortable in many anchorages.
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:18   #51
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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No, all I am suggesting, is that as boat size increases, most people's physical ability to deal with the potential forces and loads diminishes rather quickly... And, with newbies learning how to sail aboard large yachts, the potential for breaking stuff has gotta be right up there ;-)

For instance, if I were to suffer a gooseneck breakage on a Leisure-Furl boom in a gale at sea, I would much prefer at that moment to be aboard a 45-footer, rather than a 65-footer... On the smaller boat, at least I might stand a fighting chance to try to secure the whole mess, before it did serious further damage, or injured any of the crew...

Worse case scenario, if I had been dismasted, and needed to jettison the rig before it punched a hole in the hull, I'd rather it be aboard an Outbound 46, as opposed to an Oyster 625... But perhaps that's just me...

I know, this sort of stuff never happens, anyway... Gear failures of any kind are extremely rare aboard modern large and complex yachts, and all the buttons always work, whenever they're pushed...

Like I said, I'm just a wimp, I guess... But to me, size definitely does matter...

;-)
Seems like a good idea to take your own advice and stick with a small one then...... I was very specific with my only questions as to the size of the boat being a potential hindrance in "normal" cruising, MED, Bahamas, Coastal US etc..... I really don't want or need strangers opinions about mt abilities/lack thereof or the potential skill levels of Skippers or Instructors..... I have received some very welcome advice so far and an equal amout of blithering from some bloke in a dinghy telling me to "go small and go now" and you suggesting that you are physically strong enough to hold a 45ft ers mast in your teeth but not a 60ft ers....and that an Outbound 45 floats better with a hole in the side than a larger Oyster ....appreciate the insight to your physical condition and buoyancy studies but not really relevant....
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:20   #52
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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You said you wanted to do the coasts of the U.S. If you plan on the Intracoastal Waterway air draft will indeed be an issue with fixed bridges at 64'. I saw that an Oyster 62 has an air draft of 89'.
Thanks - not interested in the intracoastal .....
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:20   #53
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Get the SMALLEST boat that you think you can manage. The costs of boat ownership go up way faster than the comfort factors, and the challenge in managing sails, ground tackle etc. go up even faster. In our family, two heads was a non-negotiable criterion, so that put us into the mid-40's range. If you didn't have that constraint, I would aim at the mid-30's. Unless you plan on having many guests, often, that size will be fine -- and EVERYTHING will be cheaper and easier than in a bigger boat.
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:24   #54
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Get the SMALLEST boat that you think you can manage. The costs of boat ownership go up way faster than the comfort factors, and the challenge in managing sails, ground tackle etc. go up even faster. In our family, two heads was a non-negotiable criterion, so that put us into the mid-40's range. If you didn't have that constraint, I would aim at the mid-30's. Unless you plan on having many guests, often, that size will be fine -- and EVERYTHING will be cheaper and easier than in a bigger boat.
Thanks for the opinion but it isn't the question that I asked......and cost isn't a decisive factor, the plan is to enjoy going places, with as much comfort and self sufficiency as possible, if that costs more then so be it.....Boating looks cheap and easy compared with aeroplanes so far!
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:31   #55
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

I don't have an ugly house, aeroplane, car or motorcycle....not getting an ugly boat!
Forget anything? Don't let your wife see this line, you might not leave port.
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:32   #56
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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I don't have an ugly house, aeroplane, car or motorcycle....not getting an ugly boat!
Forget anything? Don't let your wife see this line, you might not leave port.
Don't have an ugly Wife or Girlfriend
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:34   #57
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by DMCantor View Post
Get the SMALLEST boat that you think you can manage. The costs of boat ownership go up way faster than the comfort factors, and the challenge in managing sails, ground tackle etc. go up even faster. In our family, two heads was a non-negotiable criterion, so that put us into the mid-40's range. If you didn't have that constraint, I would aim at the mid-30's. Unless you plan on having many guests, often, that size will be fine -- and EVERYTHING will be cheaper and easier than in a bigger boat.
And make sure you get one with a composing head, then you won't need to worry about having any guests aboard, especially women.... Who needs them anyway?....then you can go even smaller. Awesome!

The smallest boat wins! Dream small! Dream cheap!

When money is not an issue.... Dream small!
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:46   #58
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

65 FT? better get all the bells and whistles....electric winches both sheets and halliards, hydraulic windless..as electric will burnout with that much ground tackle. and or crew. yup size matters in many ways. in 5 years you won't always have fair seas. your age will dictate the number and type of crew
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:46   #59
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
No, all I am suggesting, is that as boat size increases, most people's physical ability to deal with the potential forces and loads diminishes rather quickly... And, with newbies learning how to sail aboard large yachts, the potential for breaking stuff has gotta be right up there ;-)

For instance, if I were to suffer a gooseneck breakage on a Leisure-Furl boom in a gale at sea, I would much prefer at that moment to be aboard a 45-footer, rather than a 65-footer... On the smaller boat, at least I might stand a fighting chance to try to secure the whole mess, before it did serious further damage, or injured any of the crew...

Worse case scenario, if I had been dismasted, and needed to jettison the rig before it punched a hole in the hull, I'd rather it be aboard an Outbound 46, as opposed to an Oyster 625... But perhaps that's just me...

I know, this sort of stuff never happens, anyway... Gear failures of any kind are extremely rare aboard modern large and complex yachts, and all the buttons always work, whenever they're pushed...

Like I said, I'm just a wimp, I guess... But to me, size definitely does matter...

;-)

It's funny that in all of these boat size discussions, people with small ones consistently say big boats are terrifying/uneconomical/unnecessary, and people with big ones always say that we would never want a smaller one

But none of this is relevant to the OP's question so why are we rehashing it here? He's going to have professional crew, which is a very smart decision. With professional crew and no budget problems, there is really no even wrong argument against a bigger boat

With those parameters, make mine about 90'
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:48   #60
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Seems like a good idea to take your own advice and stick with a small one then......
That's already taken care of... ;-)

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... and you suggesting that you are physically strong enough to hold a 45ft ers mast in your teeth but not a 60ft ers....and that an Outbound 45 floats better with a hole in the side than a larger Oyster ....appreciate the insight to your physical condition and buoyancy studies but not really relevant....
Hmmm, appears that you may have had a bit of a reading comprehension problem, with that one...

Anyway, good luck with your search... It's gotta be nice to go boat shopping, with cost being no object... And, may all the brokers you visit have airfields nearby large enough to accommodate your 3+ tonnes aeroplane...

;-)
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