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Old 09-09-2015, 05:20   #166
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by Juho View Post
If I introduce topic 123 and someone answers on 124, I might say
- thank you, or
- thank you although that may already be too far from what I was looking for, or
- thank you for taking up also that interesting topic, or
- thank you for taking up also that very relevant topic

I might add also
- sorry that I was too vague in describing what I meant

I might get more irritated if I would observe some intentional malicious behaviour. But I consider other peoples' interest to justify their viewpoint by repeating their position two or three times still non-malicious.

My point is that already short words like "thank you" or "sorry" might often make wonders in steering the discussion on a positive path. Especially in web discussions smileys and short polite words are needed since people don't see/hear you and you don't see/hear them, and therefore misunderstandings on the tone of voice are more common than in face-to-face discussions.
Plenty of "thank you" from me, as you will note if you read the thread....not so much for people that are waffling irrelevencies....but I do understand and appreciate your point....
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:23   #167
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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On behalf of British people everywhere, An apology for the misconception of the manners and civilities of the nation is in order, if only to correct the impression given by the OP of this thread.

We are not a nation of arrogant, self loving, rude and aggressive people. We have elements that display these characteristics. as you have witnessed, and for these people, they must walk their own path to alienation.

I have been dismayed at the rudeness of the posts, the arrogance of the posts, the demeaning nature of the posts and the invalidation of posters comments.

I believe we have all witnessed the type of boat owner that we struggle to avoid out there.

Just a piece of advice when dealing with people.

.......sigh.....again.....sorry, lost my tolerance for irrelevent waffle, unsolicited advice and "you don't want to do it like that matey" years ago....just like to get things done.....
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:27   #168
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Estarzinger, thanks for sharing your wealth of experience and knowledge. This is priceless.
You mention Polar Bound is one of the strongest built cruisers you have seen. What aluminium thicknesses have been used? What spacing of framing? Are the bulkheads and watertight doors more numerous than usually encountered in alu boats designed for northern waters? What other features make this boat "strong"?

Any details of the construction would be interesting information.

SWL
SWL, even though I was way off on my assumption that she was a re-engineered 47, I still believe the owner was in some way inspired by the 47. Which would mean 4 watertight bulk heads, quite a few for a boat that size.

Zinger, if you find yourself talking to your buddy with Polar Bound, I'd be very curious to know if he was inspired in any way by the 47?

Here's a photo of the christening of a 47 I served on, I hope I'm not hallucinating because the resemblance to Polar Bound seems really striking to me.



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Old 09-09-2015, 05:31   #169
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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On behalf of British people everywhere, An apology for the misconception of the manners and civilities of the nation is in order, if only to correct the impression given by the OP of this thread.
Thanks, but is that apology extended to us "Septics", as well?

;-))
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:34   #170
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Thanks, but is that apology extended to us "Septics", as well?

;-))
My dear boy
There are limits you know!

If its any consolation Jon, you have turned into one of my 'always read' CF members.

Jes saying.
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:34   #171
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by No boat yet View Post
Newbie looking for some practical advice....I have tried the search facility but can't find the answer so would appreciate experienced members opinions ....

We all know that size is important but is a bigger boat necessarily beneficial? My wife and I are very experienced travellers but inexperienced sailors....we are going on a world tour starting 2017 - clearing up business and "stuff" this year and next - we will be buying, a new boat between 45 and 65 ft in the new year.....cost isn't an issue and we will probably want a skipper for the first year or so......question is, does a larger boat cause any extra annoyance when it comes to marinas etc! Certainly our local one doesn't have any berths available for anything over 45 ft ....I favour the larger size, Jeanneau, Oyster or similar as the extra space has to be useful if it is going to be home for 5 yrs or more, more headroom, visitor space etc....but will the extra size be a PitA?

Help appreciated.
Day late dollar short but never mind...

1/'is a bigger boat necessarily beneficial'...No

2/'inexperienced sailors...we will probably want a skipper for the first year or so' 45 foot would be plenty after the captain has gone

3/'but will the extra size be a PitA?' refer back to 2/.

Dockhead... you are getting rather soft... pipecot and toilet? Sailbags and a bucket... plus 2 eggs on Sunday if he behaves.....
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:41   #172
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Sweden was only half way! The big trip was all the way to Eastern Finland, near the Russian border, and back to the UK South Coast. 3000 miles.


To answer your question -- I am a gregarious person and enjoy the dynamics of a well run crew. I have a long list of volunteer crew who come and go at various times. The boat sleeps 7 so sometimes we have 5 or 6 people on board for long passages.

On my third North Sea crossing in May this year there were four of us, three highly experienced Danish guys and me. Although it was the first time two of them had sailed with me, and I didn't even really have a common language with one of them, we quickly "clicked" and were soon even reading each other's minds -- one of the signs of a good crew, as in "do you think we need a little more leech tension?" "I just did that"; etc. It was a very challenging trip with part of the long passage done in an unforecast F10 and was not without adventures, but we had a great time.

On my first North Sea crossing I was absolutely single handed, something I also (maybe paradoxically) enjoy very much.

During the summer cruising around the Baltic -- I had two long-term guests at different times, one an excellent sailor (owner of a Swan 90), the other an eager beginner. I was single handed between them.

It all works for me.


I don't desire a professional captain -- that's my job and I am glad to perform it. But as I said I would kill for a full time pro engineer/deckhand/watchstander/gofer, which would greatly reduce my workload and increase cruising pleasure. Could be a couple so you also get someone to cook and clean and maybe still one more watchstander -- would be great -- but then the living space would need to be larger.

I would want to choose someone who would be pleasant company so you wouldn't remove him from society on board, but it would be nice if he had a separate place to sleep. Unlike some one here I don't believe you need 70'+ to provide this; a simple forepeak pipecot berth is ok for this. This is part of my wish list for my dream custom build -- forepeak sail locker with such a berth and small heads there.
Thank you for responding to my curiosity I have much the same approach to sailing, FamilyVan sleeps 6, and twice this year I have had 7 on board for overnights! (My son sleeps with my wife and I).

I understand your desire for engineering support. I get free engineering support, my older brother has a PHD in Chemical engineering and my little brother is a certified marine engineer and my boat still breaks down ! (always electrical).



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Old 09-09-2015, 05:44   #173
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Op, most of the boat owners on this forum are significantly wealthier than I am, but for the most part, I find them very pleasant and engaging. I think what sets them apart from you, is in addition to money, they have class.

You know so little about seamanship that you don't know whether you need a 45 or a 65 foot boat, which puts you high in the running for the most ignorant people I have encountered on this forum.

Some of the small boat proponents on this forum have forgotten more about seamanship than you will ever know about being rich and arrogant, never mind boats.

Some advice you can take or leave. If you approach the sea with the same arrogance you display on this forum, especially if you visit high latitudes you will probably sink. The person who drags your sodden humiliated soul from the deeps will probably be a fisherman, or coast guardsman or common sailor with no more than a 5 figure salary and vastly more knowledge of and respect for the sea than you will ever have.


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I know plenty of people far wealthier than I am or ever will be, but....like I said, money is an irrelevancy in this context, the question was framed around potential bureaucratic silliness at an arbitrary size....something I run into a lot in aviation and am eager to avoid in boating.
I am very familiar with high latitudes and will be employing experienced professionals to keep the boat out of trouble in the environment I plan to visit first, before going to warmer climes.
I am sure the Sea is every bit as hostile as the Air as you suggest.....or perhaps not as there doesn't appear to be a limit as to how long one can stay afloat, whereas there is a limit to how long one can stay.......there also doesn't appear to be much of a training demand, certainly not to the same degree and very little in the way of recurrent training, simulator based emergency training etc.....which makes hiring crew a little more challenging.....for the aeroplanes I can put them in a simulator and throw endless emergencies at them, seems Skippers are more of a “recommended” recruitment process….and then one has to vet the recommender as well……
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:55   #174
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by No boat yet View Post
I know plenty of people far wealthier than I am or ever will be, but....like I said, money is an irrelevancy in this context, the question was framed around potential bureaucratic silliness at an arbitrary size....something I run into a lot in aviation and am eager to avoid in boating.
I am very familiar with high latitudes and will be employing experienced professionals to keep the boat out of trouble in the environment I plan to visit first, before going to warmer climes.
I am sure the Sea is every bit as hostile as the Air as you suggest.....or perhaps not as there doesn't appear to be a limit as to how long one can stay afloat, whereas there is a limit to how long one can stay.......there also doesn't appear to be much of a training demand, certainly not to the same degree and very little in the way of recurrent training, simulator based emergency training etc.....which makes hiring crew a little more challenging.....for the aeroplanes I can put them in a simulator and throw endless emergencies at them, seems Skippers are more of a “recommended” recruitment process….and then one has to vet the recommender as well……
I hate to disappoint you, but I am a former seaman working in the aviation industry and STCW requirements are every bit as stringent as ICAO requirements, in some ways, aviation is decades behind (SMS for example) the maritime industry. I have encountered a lot of former seaman recruited by the aviation industry, because of, not in spite of, their experience dealing with prolonged emergencies.

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Old 09-09-2015, 05:57   #175
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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You do realize that champagne can freeze...???
Single malt doesn't .
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:59   #176
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by No boat yet View Post
I know plenty of people far wealthier than I am or ever will be, but....like I said, money is an irrelevancy in this context, the question was framed around potential bureaucratic silliness at an arbitrary size....something I run into a lot in aviation and am eager to avoid in boating.
I am very familiar with high latitudes and will be employing experienced professionals to keep the boat out of trouble in the environment I plan to visit first, before going to warmer climes.
I am sure the Sea is every bit as hostile as the Air as you suggest.....or perhaps not as there doesn't appear to be a limit as to how long one can stay afloat, whereas there is a limit to how long one can stay.......there also doesn't appear to be much of a training demand, certainly not to the same degree and very little in the way of recurrent training, simulator based emergency training etc.....which makes hiring crew a little more challenging.....for the aeroplanes I can put them in a simulator and throw endless emergencies at them, seems Skippers are more of a “recommended” recruitment process….and then one has to vet the recommender as well……
No boat

Someone once said "you can learn to sail in a weekend, but learning to sail well takes a lifetime" Very true words.

I have no doubt that you are a qquick learner and perhaps you'll have the time to learn to really sail before something really serious occurs (I'm not talking about a broken crapper here) think force 10 or 11 and 10 meter high waves.

Do you find a skipper by recommendations? Yes indeed you do. There are a number of qualifications that a person can take, Yachtmaster Ocean comes to mind, but even though a person may have this - it is no guarantee that he/she is a really capable skipper.

Especially if you are talking High Lat sailing. I'm a Yachtmaster Ocean, but don't have any experience with High Lat sailing and would turn down a job offering if I got one.

A number of the posters who have answered your original Post are truly experienced, including High Lat. These guys really do know what they are talking about. You should not take their answers lightly


But that select circle boasts few members, and not many of them are available as hires for a year.

Your original question "Is size important" which you noted meant are there regulations etc that come into play as boats get bigger, to a certain extent depends on what flag you are flying. certainly if you are under Danish flag, you need a Yachtskipper class 1 (Yachtmaster Ocean) or a commercial grade skippers license, if you are going to sail anything over 15 meters outside the Baltic (and some surrounding waters. There are also some regs regarding horsepower.

Those regs are not universal, differing from country to country.

I'm not sure about hired crew (jones act in US boats), but you'd do well to investigate this once you are sure of your flag.
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:59   #177
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
Op, most of the boat owners on this forum are significantly wealthier than I am, but for the most part, I find them very pleasant and engaging. I think what sets them apart from you, is in addition to money, they have class.

You know so little about seamanship that you don't know whether you need a 45 or a 65 foot boat, which puts you high in the running for the most ignorant people I have encountered on this forum.

Some of the small boat proponents on this forum have forgotten more about seamanship than you will ever know about being rich and arrogant, never mind boats.

Some advice you can take or leave. If you approach the sea with the same arrogance you display on this forum, especially if you visit high latitudes you will probably sink. The person who drags your sodden humiliated soul from the deeps will probably be a fisherman, or coast guardsman or common sailor with no more than a 5 figure salary and vastly more knowledge of and respect for the sea than you will ever have.


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OK, now that everyone has expressed himself fully --

let's just all climb down off our high horses and start over again.

There is no need to be so rough. This is way out of line. New people need to be given a break to give them time to feel and figure out the rules of engagement in unfamiliar communities.

Noboatyet -- you've asked an interesting and intelligent question, and you're obviously an intelligent person with much to contribute. You've been treated with unnecessary roughness, for which I apologize on behalf of the community. But you've made your own mistakes -- I hope you see them now.

This community (like all others) is full of all different types and eccentric viewpoints. Inevitably someone appears with a chip on his shoulder about something or another -- human nature. Take it in stride and be polite, bite your tongue once in a while, seek out the knowledge which will be useful to you, engage those who have something useful to tell you, don't engage those who don't, and you'll be fine.

Once particularly important point -- when a member starts a thread, it doesn't mean that he "owns" it. Threads on here are conversations, not reports to the OP. The conversation will drift, and people will say irrelevant and (to the OP) useless things, then drift back to the topic. That is absolutely normal and not the basis for objections -- the key is, people participate in these conversations not just to help the OP, but also to have vaguely related conversations, and also -- human nature -- as an excuse to get back on a familiar soapbox about one or another pet issue. I don't actually think that you were displaying "arrogance" in this conversation. I think mostly you were just making the mistake of objecting to things people said, which were not directly useful to you.
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Old 09-09-2015, 06:05   #178
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

What I would really like to know now is "how do I turn of email alerts about posts on this thread?".....I have unticked every check box I can find and unsubscribed but still get deluged with them.....
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Old 09-09-2015, 06:07   #179
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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What I would really like to know now is "how do I turn of email alerts about posts on this thread?".....I have unticked every check box I can find and unsubscribed but still get deluged with them.....
click on the link at the bottom of the notificatio mail that says "unsubscribe " See below

There may also be other replies, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again.

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Old 09-09-2015, 06:14   #180
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Damn, does this mean we'll never know which boat he's gonna buy this weekend?

Seems the least he could do, is toss a crumb to the Go Small/Go Now Crowd, no?

;-)

Have fun shopping, no boat... One of these days I'm gonna make it to the Southhampton Show, that's got to be awesome... Good luck...
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