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Old 09-09-2015, 02:23   #151
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Polar Bound is 48 feet in length with an 18 foot beam and a six foot draft.
She's propelled by a Gardner 150 hp 8-cylinder engine
Polar Bound carries ten tons of fuel which is approximately two and a
quarter thousand US gallons. cruise at about six knots, as that's the
economical cruising speed. 900 revs through a twin
disc, two-to-one reduction box. So you could say 400 or 450 at the
propeller end. On average about 150 miles a day, 1,000 miles a week,
and burning just about two and a half gallons an hour. a range
of 5,000 miles, a safe working range.

It's aluminum, but extremely "Ice class" scantlings. I have copies of the plans and I have only ever seen one more strongly build boat - Pete Blake's seamaster (another, bigger, sailing/motor-sailing, design intended for purposes similar to the the OP)

Not the best picture but gives an idea:
Attachment 108667
Estarzinger, thanks for sharing your wealth of experience and knowledge. This is priceless.
You mention Polar Bound is one of the strongest built cruisers you have seen. What aluminium thicknesses have been used? What spacing of framing? Are the bulkheads and watertight doors more numerous than usually encountered in alu boats designed for northern waters? What other features make this boat "strong"?

Any details of the construction would be interesting information.

SWL
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:39   #152
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

If you can afford up to 65' I would go for it especially if plans include away from Marinas........sometimes that will be too big (docking choices (length), anchoring options (draft), maintanence (its a time and aggro thing as well as a cheque book matter)).......and sometimes too small (bad weather / crew / family & friends!)....but often enough just fine (especially underway, when all going well, chillaxing and stuffing toys onboard!).

BTW me is on 30' and 17'......and endless refits on both. Lol.

Sent from my NEXUS 5 whilst sitting in my armchair tied to the dock.
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:51   #153
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Regarding too small for crew, I think that depends on how you use them.....if your idea is to only have a skipper (or 3!, ie as and when needed) until you can learn to do the job then can put up with the lack of privacy.

Deckhands / crew can be taken onboard for longer passages only. And for maintanence in port a cheque book and good planning (from knowing yourself what needs doing, primarily before breakages!) will get you far.

But if the idea is to have a skipper and crew member onboard permanently then IMO 65' too small.......that is big for a recreational boat, but floor plan much the same size as a small flat - imagine being trapped inside for extended periods with a couple of strangers (even if a Butler and a maid!).....boats get very small onboard sometimes, especially with friends and family....the longer the stay the smaller the boat gets!!!

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Old 09-09-2015, 02:51   #154
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by No boat yet View Post
Yep, the written word is often misunderstood....much better to have a beer at the bar.....I don't "do" forums very often for that very reason....one ends up wasting endless time on silly arguments that wouldn't occur in real life......

However, laughter is the correct response and I have giggled mightily at some of the posts.....as has Mrs NBY......particularly the go small go now crowd, very entertaining.....see you on the Sea somewhere....
While you're busy giggling and laughing at many of the well-thought out responses from the folks you presume are just "wasting endless time," I'm going to tell you from my personal experience, that each and every one of these individuals on this forum who've responded to your thread have at one time or another responded to my inquiries for assistance in an very unselfish manner, and provided a tremendous amount of assistance over the years. When I post a problem or predicament.... They come running to help, even the folks I disagree with, or spar with at times like Jon. I appreciate every one of them. Even in far off ports.... I connect with individuals from this forum, and even those from the "go small, go now crowd" that you find so "entertaining."

You see.... It doesn't matter how BIG you think your wallet is, we're all share the same things in common, the love of exploring, sailing and meeting new people.

So.... It might not be such a bad idea to take your attitude someplace else if you're only intension is to make disparaging remarks and jabs at long time members.

Ken
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Old 09-09-2015, 03:04   #155
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
While you're busy giggling and laughing at many of the well-thought out responses from the folks you presume are just "wasting endless time," I'm going to tell you from my personal experience, that each and every one of these individuals on this forum who've responded to your thread have at one time or another responded to my inquiries for assistance in an very unselfish manner, and provided a tremendous amount of assistance over the years. When I post a problem or predicament.... They come running to help, even the folks I disagree with, or spar with at times like Jon. I appreciate every one of them. Even in far off ports.... I connect with individuals from this forum, and even those from the "go small, go now crowd" that you find so "entertaining."

You see.... It doesn't matter how BIG you think your wallet is, we're all share the same things in common, the love of exploring, sailing and meeting new people.

So.... It might not be such a bad idea to take your attitude someplace else if you're only intension is to make disparaging remarks and jabs at long time members.

Ken
It really isn't a wallet thing but it does seem odd that some try to make it so......I was merely amused by their desperate need to justify themselves by posting a completely pointless statement or two in the context of the original question......I asked, politely, for information and received it from several individuals that obviously know what they are talking about, for which I am grateful....however, there was endless pointless waffle from bored self justifiers who presumably have nothing better to do...... having looked round a few other threads I note that the same people make similar, self justifying posts, to just about every question asked by anyone....I suspect that these posters have some issues and large chips on their shoulders.

My questions answered, thanks to all the useful PMs, off to the boatshow to see what has the layout that suits, a timescale that works and get on with it......"Go the right size go now"....won't be selling the house or any of the aeroplanes, bikes or cars either!
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Old 09-09-2015, 03:49   #156
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by No boat yet View Post
It really isn't a wallet thing but it does seem odd that some try to make it so......I was merely amused by their desperate need to justify themselves by posting a completely pointless statement or two in the context of the original question......I asked, politely, for information and received it from several individuals that obviously know what they are talking about, for which I am grateful....however, there was endless pointless waffle from bored self justifiers who presumably have nothing better to do...... having looked round a few other threads I note that the same people make similar, self justifying posts, to just about every question asked by anyone....I suspect that these posters have some issues and large chips on their shoulders.

My questions answered, thanks to all the useful PMs, off to the boatshow to see what has the layout that suits, a timescale that works and get on with it......"Go the right size go now"....won't be selling the house or any of the aeroplanes, bikes or cars either!
"Go the right size, go now"

Always remember... someday when you're at that remote anchorage and the shitter breaks down..... I doesn't matter if you're on a 20ft boat or a 70ft boat or larger, the shitter is still broke.... and you might need the advice from one of the "bored self justifiers" to help you fix it.... so you can "go the right size, go now."

Have a nice time at the boat show.

Ken
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:21   #157
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

If I introduce topic 123 and someone answers on 124, I might say
- thank you, or
- thank you although that may already be too far from what I was looking for, or
- thank you for taking up also that interesting topic, or
- thank you for taking up also that very relevant topic

I might add also
- sorry that I was too vague in describing what I meant

I might get more irritated if I would observe some intentional malicious behaviour. But I consider other peoples' interest to justify their viewpoint by repeating their position two or three times still non-malicious.

My point is that already short words like "thank you" or "sorry" might often make wonders in steering the discussion on a positive path. Especially in web discussions smileys and short polite words are needed since people don't see/hear you and you don't see/hear them, and therefore misunderstandings on the tone of voice are more common than in face-to-face discussions.
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:27   #158
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

On behalf of British people everywhere, An apology for the misconception of the manners and civilities of the nation is in order, if only to correct the impression given by the OP of this thread.

We are not a nation of arrogant, self loving, rude and aggressive people. We have elements that display these characteristics. as you have witnessed, and for these people, they must walk their own path to alienation.

I have been dismayed at the rudeness of the posts, the arrogance of the posts, the demeaning nature of the posts and the invalidation of posters comments.

I believe we have all witnessed the type of boat owner that we struggle to avoid out there.

Just a piece of advice when dealing with people.

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Old 09-09-2015, 04:52   #159
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Estarzinger, thanks for sharing your wealth of experience and knowledge. This is priceless.
You mention Polar Bound is one of the strongest built cruisers you have seen. What aluminium thicknesses have been used? What spacing of framing? Are the bulkheads and watertight doors more numerous than usually encountered in alu boats designed for northern waters? What other features make this boat "strong"?

Any details of the construction would be interesting information.

SWL
You do realize that champagne can freeze...???


Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
On behalf of British people everywhere, An apology for the misconception of the manners and civilities of the nation is in order, if only to correct the impression given by the OP of this thread.

We are not a nation of arrogant, self loving, rude and aggressive people. We have elements that display these characteristics. as you have witnessed, and for these people, they must walk their own path to alienation.

I have been dismayed at the rudeness of the posts, the arrogance of the posts, the demeaning nature of the posts and the invalidation of posters comments.

I believe we have all witnessed the type of boat owner that we struggle to avoid out there.

Just a piece of advice when dealing with people.

+1+1+1!!!
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:55   #160
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Op, most of the boat owners on this forum are significantly wealthier than I am, but for the most part, I find them very pleasant and engaging. I think what sets them apart from you, is in addition to money, they have class.

You know so little about seamanship that you don't know whether you need a 45 or a 65 foot boat, which puts you high in the running for the most ignorant people I have encountered on this forum.

Some of the small boat proponents on this forum have forgotten more about seamanship than you will ever know about being rich and arrogant, never mind boats.

Some advice you can take or leave. If you approach the sea with the same arrogance you display on this forum, especially if you visit high latitudes you will probably sink. The person who drags your sodden humiliated soul from the deeps will probably be a fisherman, or coast guardsman or common sailor with no more than a 5 figure salary and vastly more knowledge of and respect for the sea than you will ever have.


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Old 09-09-2015, 05:05   #161
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Quote:
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DH, I always assumed you sailed that big Moody with a friend or your wife.

Now I'm curious, how many crew did you have for your big trip to Sweden?

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Sweden was only half way! The big trip was all the way to Eastern Finland, near the Russian border, and back to the UK South Coast. 3000 miles.


To answer your question -- I am a gregarious person and enjoy the dynamics of a well run crew. I have a long list of volunteer crew who come and go at various times. The boat sleeps 7 so sometimes we have 5 or 6 people on board for long passages.

On my third North Sea crossing in May this year there were four of us, three highly experienced Danish guys and me. Although it was the first time two of them had sailed with me, and I didn't even really have a common language with one of them, we quickly "clicked" and were soon even reading each other's minds -- one of the signs of a good crew, as in "do you think we need a little more leech tension?" "I just did that"; etc. It was a very challenging trip with part of the long passage done in an unforecast F10 and was not without adventures, but we had a great time.

On my first North Sea crossing I was absolutely single handed, something I also (maybe paradoxically) enjoy very much.

During the summer cruising around the Baltic -- I had two long-term guests at different times, one an excellent sailor (owner of a Swan 90), the other an eager beginner. I was single handed between them.

It all works for me.


I don't desire a professional captain -- that's my job and I am glad to perform it. But as I said I would kill for a full time pro engineer/deckhand/watchstander/gofer, which would greatly reduce my workload and increase cruising pleasure. Could be a couple so you also get someone to cook and clean and maybe still one more watchstander -- would be great -- but then the living space would need to be larger.

I would want to choose someone who would be pleasant company so you wouldn't remove him from society on board, but it would be nice if he had a separate place to sleep. Unlike some one here I don't believe you need 70'+ to provide this; a simple forepeak pipecot berth is ok for this. This is part of my wish list for my dream custom build -- forepeak sail locker with such a berth and small heads there.
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:14   #162
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Unlike some one here I don't believe you need 70'+ to provide this; a simple forepeak pipecot berth is ok for this. This is part of my wish list for my dream custom build -- forepeak sail locker with such a berth and small heads there.
Oh no!
And I was so looking forward to my own large en suite quarters taking up 25% of the boat!
Next to the boat garage of course.

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Old 09-09-2015, 05:14   #163
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

The giggling works 2 ways.......

Sent from my NEXUS 5 whilst sitting in my armchair tied to the dock.
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:16   #164
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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The giggling works 2 ways.......

Sent from my NEXUS 5 whilst sitting in my armchair tied to the dock.
er.. is'nt that called farting Dave?


lame I know......... but in the middle of paperwork and need a break.

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Old 09-09-2015, 05:18   #165
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
"Go the right size, go now"

Always remember... someday when you're at that remote anchorage and the shitter breaks down..... I doesn't matter if you're on a 20ft boat or a 70ft boat or larger, the shitter is still broke.... and you might need the advice from one of the "bored self justifiers" to help you fix it.... so you can "go the right size, go now."

Have a nice time at the boat show.

Ken
Will do......the idea is to have multiple "facilities" .....
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