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Old 08-09-2015, 17:16   #136
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Land's End's founder, Gary Comer, also has a 'plan' a bit like the OP's. He built The Turmoil 152-foot, trawler (a yacht but trawler look). And he then went and did everything he had planned/wanted to do. This is probably well outside the OP's price range but I post it because it was one (smart) man's idea of the proper vessel for the job outlined.

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edit/note: not at all saying you 'need' this sort of vessel . . . we have a good friend who did repeated extremely successful trips to the arctic (he is one of the authors of the primary greenland cruising guide) in a bare bones contessa 32 . . . . but when you get into the 'money no constraint' category there are quite good reasons people like Gary picked it.
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Old 08-09-2015, 17:21   #137
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
Impressive yacht, no question... The Amels are always 'interesting', if nothing else... ;-)





The placement of the saildrive is unique, no wonder she needs retractable thrusters at both the bow, and stern... Nothing could ever possibly go wrong with those, of course ;-)

But what catches my eye, is one of the compromises involved in having that stern garage... Look at how short the rudder post inside the hull is, greatly increasing the lever arm of such a critical component. No doubt Amel has engineered it superbly, but still, IMHO that arrangement is less than ideal. On my little tub, I really like the idea that the upper bearing of my rudder post is as high as practical, at the level of the cockpit seats...

On a boat with a single rudder, a dinghy garage is gonna represent a design challenge, for sure... I think the Hunter 54 is often considered the first medium-sized boat to adopt the feature, and they did it by placing the rudder post forward of the compartment... I'e never sailed one, but by most accounts I've heard, that boat was one hell of a handful to steer in sporty conditions off the wind, with that rudder placed where it was... ;-)





I've not had the best of luck with transom garages, myself... I used to run a Trintella 47 years ago, one of the first boats to generate all those "Ooohs and Ahhhs" when exhibited at the Annapolis show, and the operation of the hydraulic transom door was demonstrated... it never quite generated the rounds of APPLAUSE that Beneteau's SenseBoat did years later with their debut of the 360 Dock and Go, but there was no shortage of folks who still went gaga over it... ;-)

I used to run the boat down to Key West for the winter, and one year I arrived shortly before Thanksgiving... Pulling into the slip at the Galleon, I only had about a day to get the boat cleaned up, and drive up to Miami in time to catch a flight out to Phoenix to spend the holiday with my mom...

Underway, stuff like fenders, shore power cord and such all got stowed in that garage... However, when I pressed the button to open it for the final time on that delivery, nothing happened... Ooops...

So, I start poking around in the shallow cockpit lockers in search of the wire leads, or fusing, anything... As best I can tell with a multimeter, the switch itself is operational, and getting power to it... The wiring simply disappears into the garage space... All of the workings and machinery of the transom door are contained WITHIN the garage, there is no way to access them from either the cockpit, or the aft stateroom... Furthermore, there is no provision for opening the door manually...

The owner told me when he got on the phone with the guys at the yard over in the Netherlands, and described the problem, there was a 'lengthy pause' on the other end of the line...

;-)

The door eventually had to be pried open, basically with a crowbar... Despite their best efforts, considerable damage ensued, and the owner got a fresh Awlgrip job out of Trintella as a result...

KISS only applies to puny boats like mine, I suppose...

;-)
Dunno about that. I was impressed with Pelagic's 65' schooner having well functioning manual furlers and no electric winches. (Hopefully that was in this thread??). Frankly, we bought our Bristol despite it having electric furlers, with my very first question being "do they have manual overrides and how do they work?" Not too worried about the Hood Stoway for the main which has been rebuilt, but the ProFurl at the bow with its "zero-maintenance, permanently-lubed gearbox" worries me. Not sure there is such a thing as "zero-maintenance" anything on an ocean going boat.

As for the Trintella, just think if that garage door had gotten stuck in the "open" position, say at a rolly anchorage with bad weather coming in. Actually, I'm sure you gave that one quite a bit of thought! Hard to believe it wasn't engineered with a manual override, or at least a reasonable way to repair it. And interesting points about the Amel 64. Seems like we're seeing a lot (not all, but a lot) of the newer boats -- at all different price levels -- being engineered these days based on "function following form" vs. the other way around. In my case, it's hard to say whether such concerns are valid or whether I'm just too much of a traditional boat enthusiast.
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Old 08-09-2015, 17:31   #138
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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I have been wrestling with the size question recently, and have come to the conclusion that draft is key. The availability of accessible marinas drops dramatically with drafts of over 6.5 ft in many areas that I am interested in.

Navigation in many areas becomes more complicated and local knowledge less relevant.


chris
Fwiw, the larger Bristol's have shoal draft keels with centerboards. Maybe Little Harbor as well which are similarly designed. My 47 only draws 4'11" with the board up. Not sure how available this feature is with more modern boats, except maybe the aluminum lifting keel expedition-type boats.
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Old 08-09-2015, 17:39   #139
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

Zinger, please excuse my ignorant assumptions. I thought for sure she was a re-engineered life boat hull.

Very cool boat.

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Old 08-09-2015, 18:08   #140
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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edit/note: not at all saying you 'need' this sort of vessel . . . we have a good friend who did repeated extremely successful trips to the arctic (he is one of the authors of the primary greenland cruising guide) in a bare bones contessa 32 . . . .
Willy Ker is one of my heroes, I'd love to be like him when I grow up...

Oh well, maybe in the next life...

;-)

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Old 08-09-2015, 18:16   #141
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Experience leading teams of people on land helps enormously with choosing and managing crew.

Some people can't stand to have other people on board, and are always having some problem or another. Some other people on the contrary really enjoy it, and always seem to find great people who don't get in the way at all, but rather contribute to the society on board.
DH, I always assumed you sailed that big Moody with a friend or your wife.

Now I'm curious, how many crew did you have for your big trip to Sweden?

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Old 08-09-2015, 23:47   #142
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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I really think you're talking about two different boats: An initial, larger boat with an interior plan setup for crewing, and a second, likely smaller boat with a deck plan appropriate for a couple for down the road when you know what you don't need and what you like and don't like in sailboats. Your preferences will change dramatically from a newbie's initial impression to a cruiser's seasoned eye anyway.

You have two entirely different use cases going on here, and no single boat is really ideal for either one. You don't seem like a person who enjoys compromise much, and if money isn't a significant factor then I think two boats makes more sense than one.

60' is >really small< for a boat with crew. Unless you really enjoy their company (and they enjoy yours), you're going to want some significant separation: Separate galley, separate head, maybe even a bulkhead separating them. You'll be hard pressed to find a monohull <65' that provides this kind of separation.

On the other side of the coin, 60' is >really big< for just two people. With modern reefing systems and power winches, they can be effectively single-handed (that's my own safety requirement, it may not be yours) and with thrusters you can resolve the marina docking issues. But around here in Southern California, we see boats this size routinely being told there's no mooring or dockage for them, and they wind up in commercial docks.

Once you've gotten comfortable with your big boat and no longer require crew, you'll find there's a lot of wasted space you're doing nothing with except using as storage. That's length you could be reducing to make close quarters maneuvering easier and to get into shallower bays or shorter slips.

Get a big boat now for crew, figure out what you like and don't like, and plan on getting the right boat after you know what you want. You may find for high-latitude cruising that you're best off of having a custom steel boat built for your exact criteria.
Excellent view and just the info I was after, thank you.
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Old 09-09-2015, 00:58   #143
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Have you ever had hired crew? for your boat? your aeroplane? your business or your house? ...... they make life easier...again, off topic, thanks for the response but move on...irrelevent.....
Well.... Now you've probably managed to alienate Poiu, an individual who single hands a 66ft Oyster with family and who can provide you with a wealth of information on boats between 55-75ft. Congratulations, your comments are also beginning to grind on me a bit. You might want to tone it down a big I you want to get along in the cruising community.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:54   #144
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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I would be eternally grateful if one of the powers that be just delete the whole thread and my account with it.
Funny: that is the very first post of yours with which I fully agree.

In the unlikely event that you ever actually buy a boat and go cruising, you could come back and tell us about your experiences.

Jim
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:56   #145
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
Impressive yacht, no question... The Amels are always 'interesting', if nothing else... ;-)

Just looking at the plans of this Amel and I can't figure out how the dinghy fits in.
Have a look at the cross section. It seems it would lie on top of the beds in the aft cabins .

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Old 09-09-2015, 01:59   #146
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

OP...It is sometimes difficult to understand what a new member is actually asking or looking for when researching their first boat..... And some well meaning members do infer way too much based on their own tribulations

Best to just laugh those ones off and get to know us...cheers!

Whenever someone starts to assume they know me....I hum this song and laugh...

Getting To Know You - Marni Nixon (Deborah Kerr o…: http://youtu.be/1o1t-PhkFAQ
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:00   #147
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

I'd feel sorry for the poor sucker crew who sign on to sail for the no boat yet Prima Donna.

He'll be back here as "no crew now" after they get pissed off and jump ship.


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Old 09-09-2015, 02:04   #148
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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Funny: that is the very first post of yours with which I fully agree.

In the unlikely event that you ever actually buy a boat and go cruising, you could come back and tell us about your experiences.

Jim
And you see that as unlikely because? I am off to Southampton on Friday to buy one......don't think I feel the need to gush about my experiences thanks.....sure that you are having enough of your own.
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:09   #149
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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OP...It is sometimes difficult to understand what a new member is actually asking or looking for when researching their first boat..... And some do infer way too much based on their own tribulations

Best to just laugh those ones off and get to know us...cheers!

Getting To Know You - Marni Nixon (Deborah Kerr o…: http://youtu.be/1o1t-PhkFAQ
Yep, the written word is often misunderstood....much better to have a beer at the bar.....I don't "do" forums very often for that very reason....one ends up wasting endless time on silly arguments that wouldn't occur in real life......

However, laughter is the correct response and I have giggled mightily at some of the posts.....as has Mrs NBY......particularly the go small go now crowd, very entertaining.....see you on the Sea somewhere....
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:10   #150
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Re: Size is important ....or is it?

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I'd feel sorry for the poor sucker crew who sign on to sail for the no boat yet Prima Donna.

He'll be back here as "no crew now" after they get pissed off and jump ship.


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Sigh.......
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