Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

[gamayun]

Yeah, drop it guys. The drama's over. Move on....

(Good thing other sailors here don't have such thick craniums and thin skin )

[cyan]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Yeah, drop it guys. The drama's over. Move on....
(Good thing other sailors here don't have such thick craniums and thin skin )

AHA! It's the old ploy from last century: Shame the man for having feelings, then he has to back off because men are not supposed to have feelings. If he doesn't "move on", then he is less of a man!

Hey gamayun, your tricks won't work here.
Stay in your lane!

(I really hope the funny emoticons are working today)

[Exile]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Yeah, drop it guys. The drama's over. Move on....

(Do all men have such thick craniums )

Apparently only the ones who point out double standards. You know the type . . . the "hold my beer & watch this" crowd. I think you pointed out once that all men are like that (so it must be true).

Certainly you can do better than just stereotyping all men as dumb, right? Kinda makes me wonder how fast a male poster would get booted if he made the types of broad brush, derogatory comments towards "all" women that we've seen directed towards men in this thread.

Actually, like Kmac it's hard for me to care too much over what a bunch of strangers say on an internet forum. But I thought you & others might care how transparently biased you're coming across.

Edit: Just saw that "thick craniums" was changed to "thick craniums and thin skin." Much better, thanks. (need whistling icon)

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Exile

Certainly you can do better than just stereotyping all men as dumb, right?

Actually, right now, there's only one of ya who fits that description

[Exile]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Actually, right now, there's only one of ya who fits that description

Progress gamayun! I'm delighted to read that you're finally getting over your stereotyping schtig! It really didn't become you, after all.

[weavis]

So after the pasta on board the other night, Emilio phoned me and asked if his wife could go sailing. She had never been sailing and could I take her sometime out of Huelva.

So the wife is a drop dead gorgeous lady, mother of two and such a laugh. We all have lots of fun as a group.

First, there was no hint of concern from him about me taking her.
Second, there is a lot of trust.
Third, she is a great cook.

Here is my procedure.. I said sure. now I will phone other friends who sail, and find a date they can. Emilio is not a keen sailor. SO I will see if I arrange an overnighter and bring her children,as per what has occured up to now, might be 6 on board. (reminds me I must get a new childs life jacket.. kids and strawberry jam make a lasting impression.)

We will just go coastal from early morning and pull in somewhere for lunch, then head out again and anchor overnight, head back the next day.

Would I take her alone? No. maybe a 2 hour scoot around the bay but not for a 'proper sail'. Its the value I place on reputation and protocol. In Latin countries, etiquette is important.

Old fashioned? perhaps.... but I avoid problems real or otherwise, and besides, the group plus the kids will be a blast. When you see a child sailing for the first time and they experience the water and the sails and the feeling, and they are with a parent who introduced them to it... they love it! My dad was not a keen sailor when I was growing up.. I had to find it on my own. He would not step on any of my boats till the 40ft motor vessel. "Not bad this sailing lark is it son" as he sat at the table and being given a cooked dinner..

If it is a weekend, I will ask her to make Paella...

[Exile]

OK, so now that we have some agreement that resorting to stereotyping & double-standards is neither smart nor credible , maybe we can move on to a slightly more relevant topic, namely whether gender does or should play a role in selecting a boat for singlehanding.

I often singlehand my 47'er and concur with others (even gamayun ) that outright physical strength plays a mostly insignificant role in the operation & upkeep of my boat. This has more to do with a roller furling headsail, in-mast furling mainsail, excellent auto pilot, and electric windlass than it does with the size of the boat. If anything, my boat's size is arguably a plus when underway since it is quite stable & forgiving, and it might even be easier to dock/undock than (some) smaller boats because it is not so easily moved around by current & wind. You definitely have to plan ahead, in my case for e.g. making sure I have the inner forestay deployed & staysail bagged/secured on deck before heading offshore. Getting the chute out of the sail locker can be a hassle, but it's more unwieldy than it is a matter of strength, and you can always put spare halyards to good use. I'd say the only time physical strength is required is the (usually) one time per year I remove the primary sails from the furlers and have to get them off the boat to fold & bag. But I can generally find another set of hands to help. Sometimes the dinghy & outboard get manhandled (no offense intended ), but when I can overcome my thick male cranium () even those tasks lend themselves to less physically demanding solutions, and would entail the same amount of work on a smaller boat in any event.

Singlehanded sailing & sailing in general is definitely physical, but I don't think outright strength would be a significant factor in boat selection, and certainly not gender for the most part. But reasonable minds do disagree on this (and pretty much everything else), so there are many other threads that one can consult about the pros & cons of bigger vs. smaller boats for singlehanding.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Exile

I hear ya, but maybe your stated preference for feeling more comfortable around women is influenced by having to deal with male owners in all but one of your deliveries. It would make sense I suppose. I've had a few very difficult male personalities crew with me and can certainly relate. I wouldn't allow them to crew with me again, even though a couple of them are good friends. But then there are a number of women I know that I wouldn't want on my boat either. Maybe it's something about the confined spaces, or the way personalities can change when things get stressful or even just uncomfortable. Then there's the whole "captain" thing, the sense of risk and responsibility, the insecurities . . . whew! Little wonder you often hear from delivery caps why they prefer the owners not to be onboard.

Exile.. I came to the solo or female only during my very first delivery for an income back in '98.. had done several along the UK S coast previously but that had been to help out friends and customers at the B/yard I worked at.
Long story short I was in Agua Dulce, Spain when a guy came to the boat and asked if I would be interested in taking his boat to the UK for him.. a friend on another boat had pointed him my way and said I was the most experienced guy in the marina.
It was a home build CC steel boat that he wanted taking up the Thames to Gallions Reach in London's East End.
I had a friend in the UK who had been saying how much he'd like to do a 2week spell on a boat (He'd been on w/end trips across the channel with me when I lived in Poole) so I dropped him a line and we agreed to meet up at Fuengirola, the most convenient place for us both.
The trip down to Gib was great.. light winds, dolphins and easy motoring.. his GF was in her element.
As we reached Europa Point the wind turned Westerly so we went into Gib and spent a few days there waiting for the turn.. it came as we were having Sunday roast beef lunches sitting outside one of the restaurants that line the marina when I looked up and saw the cloud was moving position.. so told them to eat up as it was time to go.
1 hour later we cast off lines and headed across the bay to the straits.. by this time the wind was an E3-4 and by chance the tide was with us and we flew down towards Tarifa..
By the time we got there the funnelling had piped the wind up to F7 and the tide was on the turn so the sea's were building so I settled down behind the wheel for a few hours of surfing.. waves slowly building up.. by the time we were halfway between Tarifa and Trafalgar they were coming in sets of 2metres and up to 3+ metres..
Lindsay who was down below was starting to freak out a bit and Peter who was sat next to me in the cockpit was white knuckling.. and kept looking back at the lights of Tarifa behind us as dusk fell.
We got a biggie surf and Lindsay squealed and Peter started saying we should turn and go into Tarifa.. I tried telling him it would be very hard work if not downright dangerous to try given the boat, the wind and sea.. and the bottom.
But he started get aggressive about it so I figured okay.. lets see if I can change his mind.. last thing I wanted was a physical confrontation with someone 3 stone heavier than me in those conditions so, I told him we'd turn back and he sat down again and calmed down.
I started timing the sets and chose my turn between waves 5 and 6.. and we quartered over it comfortably enough and I then turned bow on to the 3.5'r breaking wave thundering down on us...
Huge burst of spray and the bow flew up in the air.. Lindsay flew of the bunk and across the cabin.. Peter grabbed a line and held on for dear life and as we crested and went down the other side all I could hear was the longest scream ever coming outa the hatch.
Peter turned to me and said.. "Phil, Phil.. turn back round.. your right man.. that's insane.." then once I'd done the 180 back to 270 he disappeared below to check on Lindsay..
Four hours later we were well past the funnel and motoring across a lazy glassy swell with the lights of Cadiz casting a glow of the Stbd quarter.
Went into Faro/Olhau and anchored of the island of Culatra so they could spend a few days sunning and exploring a bit of Portugal before flying home.
Sailed from there to Gallions Reach solo after they left.
Women crew I find are.. if they trust you.. prepared to follow instructions, not be confrontational and generally better company.. no brag fests.. no going 180 'because its more comfortable..'
Men on the other hand have a tendency to think they know better.. will not wake you at first signs of problems resulting in one coming on deck to be greeted by a gale, a Cruise ship bearing down on you a mile away.. woken by a change in boat movement to find he's been twatting about with switches and turned off the AP and the boats curved into the winds and your screaming towards a reef in approaches to the Torres Strait.. there's many more reasons.
Call me a control freak but.. its my responsibility as the skipper to make sure boat and crew arrive safely at the other end and in the best possible order.. it is not down to some know it all smart a$re who's done a couple of charters and thinks he's the tooth fairies gift to the sailing world and who, if anything happens will say.. 'Not my fault.. He's the skipper blame him'
And.. women smell nicer in the main..

[john61ct]

I don't see how promiscuity, "gold digging" or even choosing to engage in explicit sex work, is in **any** way comparable to sexual abuse by an older / stronger / boss / employer.

As long as no coercing or deception is involved, there's nothing immoral about the former categories.

And of course either sex can take any of those roles.

It's pretty easy to see how being isolated on a boat would exacerbate the issues of abuse, which are in fact very commonplace in nearly all social scenarios.

Only those relatively unaffected by such threats have the dubious privilege of demanding objective evidence for something as obvious as the preceding statement.

[TheThunderbird]

I am totally with Boatman, as usual
I dislike stressing gender divide in anno domini 2018, but.. Yes

Solo sailors M are open to the sweet mating (not occasionally , we feel alone)

solo sailors F do not, they fought and fight the concept. Keep fighting, actually.

This thread proves it too, btw.

[goat]

There are a couple groups I've found for misogynistic and misandristic solo sailors;

Forever alone guys sailing,

and

Ladies enjoying sailing by our selves.

They're both looking for good acronyms. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

goat

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Exile

Despite your bolding, punctuation, asterisk, etc., along with Zee's own attempts to explain, I'm sure I'm not alone in still not understanding what was trying to be said. You enjoy a lot of admiration & respect here Ann, so it might be easier if you could simply explain what you believe it to mean. Weavis gave us his take on it, which frankly seems the most obvious one to me. But as discussed, how such comments are interpreted often comes down to the perspective of the reader. (Or we can just drop it, per Weav's request).

weavis gave a fake take. he interprets and edits, not reads. try reading. there was no stereotyping there was no accusing, just facts of living in general compounded by boat living.
there is an ancient addage--IF THE SHOE FITS, WEAR IT;. if it doesnot fit, ignore it. seems male skins are very thin these days.
the personalities of you all are readily seen. you diss, bully, extort and damage that with which you refuse to get along. sounds like politicians in a senate caucus these days.
you cannot learn on a forum nor internet that which you wish to learn. however you CAN get to know who NOT to choose as a travel companion or crew.
this has been most interesting.
i cannot, however, see any positivity to ignoring the realities of cruising life and living aboard when the reality will hit you in the face despite your protected background. there are all kinds in this world, and to ignore the existence of specifics is to deny the fact the planet is a sphere.

now, go out and try to have fun. the fun part may be a challenge to some of you.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

I am totally with Boatman, as usual
I dislike stressing gender divide in anno domini 2018, but.. Yes

Solo sailors M are open to the sweet mating (not occasionally , we feel alone)

solo sailors F do not, they fought and fight the concept. Keep fighting, actually.

This thread proves it too, btw.

Really? Who said we're not open to sweet mating? Lonely people are alone. I'm single and a solo sailor when I race. I sail often with friends of both gender and I share my bunk if I find a guy I like. The comments here, particularly Boatie's experience, suggests some males are not comfortable around strong, independent females, or those who are competent on their own boats, because they can't give up control. This thread, however, only "proves" what each of us wants to believe....

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goat

There are a couple groups I've found for misogynistic and misandristic solo sailors;

Forever alone guys sailing,

and

Ladies enjoying sailing by our selves.

They're both looking for good acronyms. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

goat

Your details.. along with this post have been forwarded to the LBGT blah blah Society..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Really? Who said we're not open to sweet mating? Lonely people are alone. I'm single and a solo sailor when I race. I sail often with friends of both gender and I share my bunk if I find a guy I like. The comments here, particularly Boatie's experience, suggests some males are not comfortable around strong, independent females, or those who are competent on their own boats, because they can't give up control. This thread, however, only "proves" what each of us wants to believe....

Where have I said I am not comfortable around strong independent females..
Its the guys that do my head in..
Just because I choose/prefer women as crew are you saying any woman who crews for me on a delivery is a meek, subservient doormat.. for accepting that as it is my responsibility, it is my place to make any important decisions.. and if they are on watch alone while I sleep they should call me if the winds increase's/ change direction etc.
You may enjoy MOB's at night.. I do not.. more so if I do not find out till I wake up naturally.
Or are you just doing a female Weavis and reading to fast.. did try to get the grammar proper..