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Old 14-01-2013, 13:41   #361
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

And in the dark of night how do you differentiate between a friendly drunk and a bad guy? Shoot first and ask questions later? Or maybe just answer questions at that point, posed to you by local law enforcement!
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Old 14-01-2013, 17:02   #362
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

I just got myself two cans of wasp spray. The type that shoots for 25 ft . It works on all types of critters
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Old 14-01-2013, 20:11   #363
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Comments on this thread have me asking the question, 'how many have actually lived with having shot and killed an intruder?' It is not a pretty experience but alot harder on the intruderer than the the intrudee although not by much.
Other than battlefield experience, my guess is very few and those who have, don't want to relive the time.
Maintaining security varies from country to country... in some countries, nothing but impending death will deter an intruder because they have little to lose. In more civilized areas, even a sign will turn away a would be thief, particularly if there are other, softer target handy.
If hand to hand combat is a good possiblity, best not take a knife to a gun fight. On the other hand, social mores of the country you are visiting should give sufficient guidance to develop effective deterrents.
There are parts of Chicago where you wouldn't want to venture unless you were well armed yet areas of remote Mexico just a smile and a little hable espagnol will defuse most threatening situations. Phil

+1. I have felt much safer in Mexico on my boat (even in marinas) than driving around LA in the evening. I even feel safer on my boat (even in marinas) in LA than on land. I figure you eliminate many people just by being on a dock-it's one way in & out and not what comes to mind with wealth. Even though our marina has no gates- we get few dock walkers-and fewer that may be up to no good.

And at anchor-that eliminates even more except those stray bad guys with means to get out to you. I know a nice boat may look like candy sitting offshore of a city with few resources but I've seldom felt fear on my boat. And the one time I did-a panga 50+ miles offshore coming at us with 3 (unusual) guys on Pacific side of Mexico- it was nothing. I spoke to them In Spanish (over both our engines as we were motoring at the time so we had options) They asked how deep, I answered 300+ and we both went our separate ways. Later found they do fish for something in real deep waters but at the time I was worried.
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Old 14-01-2013, 20:22   #364
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

Andrew,
It was me who misunderstood your context. Now that I realize we are talking about differentiating good guys vs bad guys at the point of purchase. Then anyone wearing a black hat(note to self to buy a different hat), convicted felons, people convicted of domestic assault, and people with violent mental health disorders are not supposed to be able to purchase guns in the U.S. I was referring to the countries that do not let people "who have not been caught" to legally own even non-lethal forms of protection.
Papabruce,
If someone kicks in my hatch or down my door I will probably suspect that he is not a friendly drunk. If he is just drunk he is probably not someone I would want to drink a couple with. I'll send him your way if that is the kind of company you prefer.
Waynebow,
Interestingly enough I have found the cheap "autozone" carb cleaner works better on wasps than wasp spray. Go figure. I think it is because the highly evaporative fluid freezes their exoskeleton instantly. For whatever reason they drop right out of the sky instead of the lumbering death spiral that wasp spray causes. You might want to get a can of that stuff as well.
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Old 15-01-2013, 05:50   #365
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

Carb cleaner + bic lighter = DIY flame thrower. Should get a bad guy's attention, if not respect.
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Old 15-01-2013, 06:45   #366
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
Don't most people anchored out leave the door / hatch open?

Sure, marina life is different, especially with some of the nutcases on the other docks. (Those real mental cases dumped by an uncaring society, refused entry to an appropriate institution and who find that a boat is a nice cheap shelter but never cruise.)

But anchored out, in love with your boat, you are so in tune with the noises of the boat that you know when something changes or someone comes on board.

Unless you are pissed. That is true.... So lock up when you drink! Or get a dog!
My bet is that if someone is using the MO of sneaking aboard an occupied boat that they are pretty good at being quiet.

and whilst I am sure that folks entering a cabin when they know folks are down below is fairly rare, nonetheless if someone wanted to then only a couple of steps (on the average boat) to do so - and unless usual practice is to leap out of bed immediately a sound is heard (with weapon in hand?) then no time at all for someone to appear by your bunk, at that point whether asleep, half asleep or awake pretty much the same - as have lost a lot (all?) of your advantage.

Personally I simply sleep sounder knowing that someone getting in would be giving me plenty of warning, both of their arrival and intent.....whether by having to bust through a MarkJ style screen or the cabin hatch / doors.........rather than relying on a quick draw . Especially when asleep .

But nonetheless I appreciate feeling comfortable when asleep in strange places a personal thing.
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Old 15-01-2013, 08:24   #367
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

If its a large bay with lots of regular boats that has a crime problem, what about setting up a private security contract with a local off-duty cop or local? The person or persons would patrol the bay during the night, stay in-tune with local issues, keep a watch out for known persons, etc..

It could be managed by the SSCA and you pay a small fee when you pick up a designated mooring or anchor in a designated area.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:44   #368
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

Quite surprised no one (i believe) has suggested activating their EPIRB as part of a defence, it's a life threatening situation and WILL get attention!
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:49   #369
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

That's a very good idea, at least get some notice out there and start authorities toward your location - calling a mayday too. If I ever find myself in a situation, I'll keep that idea on the front burner. I think it may fall in the "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away" type of scenario though.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:04   #370
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

We have a gas assisted watertight steel companionway door that locks from inside, also all hatches and ports are half inch lexon.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:07   #371
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

Quote:
Quite surprised no one (i believe) has suggested activating their EPIRB as part of a defence, it's a life threatening situation and WILL get attention!
You're looking at hours or days before help arrives via EPIRB, and they have been used during some piracy events. Typical thievery/attacks are over with in minutes. A better option would be to get on the VHF radio if you can and call for help, particularly if there are other cruisers around. A couple of times when anchored in an iffy place I've arranged with other boats around to monitor some oddball VHF frequency through the night.
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:12   #372
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

one could also use the perimiter alarm on the radar.
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Old 08-02-2013, 22:58   #373
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

I am currently in the Philippines, a third world country where guns are 'strictly' controlled - and foreigners are NOT allowed to own/possess/carry a firearm. However this does not mean that it is unusual to firearms in public. As one might expect the military and police are armed; every small business that has more than ten dollars of cash or goods seems to have an armed security guard toting at least a 12 gauge shotgun (typically with a 14" barrel and pistol grip instead of a stock) and a bandoleer of extra shot shells - and often a pistol as well. Civilian armored car guards - and there are a lot of them - often carry military style assault rifles although I don't know if they have the full auto selector - you don't want to show too much interest in these guys. Citizens can get a permit to own, permit to transport, permit to keep in the home, and/or a permit to carry. As a practical matter one should expect any citizen rich enough to have an SUV - and they are legion - will also likely have a gun with them in the vehicle. This is so common that there are often checkpoints set up to confiscate guns without permits (or bribes) although this mainly applies to those who aren't 'connected'. This situation of widely available firearms often leads expats to desire a firearm for home protection. If you have a partner who is a citizen this is not a problem as typically she can legally own the gun and have a permit to keep in the house relatively inexpensively - for her to get a permit to carry anywhere costs about $25/month. The analogous situation of what to do if one shoots an intruder often arises on our forums. One of the best solutions to this was to keep an unregistered gun in the house - if you ever have to use it (rare) the simple explanation for the police is that the intruder brought the unregistered gun with him, he got too close and in the ensuing struggle you wrested the gun from him and he got shot fatally. Any number of martial arts training sessions will show you how to disarm an assailant with a pistol - pick one and practice it (but never actually try this on a real armed assailant). Now you can back up your story plausibly. A similar cover story might be useful anytime you feel the need to protect your loved ones, yourself, or your property with a firearm. It is not enough to simply prepare for the event, you have to give some thought to what happens afterward. Even in the USA the most likely person to be arrested and charged where a gun was involved is the person that was in possession of the gun - and this is true despite the claim of self defense, concealed carry license, or stand your ground rules. Clearly in this case the gun cannot be registered to you and you must kill the intruder so there is only your story and the crime scene forensics. This option is not for everyone but must be considered any time lethal force is brought into the situation.
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:27   #374
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

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It is not enough to simply prepare for the event, you have to give some thought to what happens afterward.
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:57   #375
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce626 View Post
I am currently in the Philippines, a third world country where guns are 'strictly' controlled - and foreigners are NOT allowed to own/possess/carry a firearm. However this does not mean that it is unusual to firearms in public. As one might expect the military and police are armed; every small business that has more than ten dollars of cash or goods seems to have an armed security guard toting at least a 12 gauge shotgun (typically with a 14" barrel and pistol grip instead of a stock) and a bandoleer of extra shot shells - and often a pistol as well. Civilian armored car guards - and there are a lot of them - often carry military style assault rifles although I don't know if they have the full auto selector - you don't want to show too much interest in these guys. Citizens can get a permit to own, permit to transport, permit to keep in the home, and/or a permit to carry. As a practical matter one should expect any citizen rich enough to have an SUV - and they are legion - will also likely have a gun with them in the vehicle. This is so common that there are often checkpoints set up to confiscate guns without permits (or bribes) although this mainly applies to those who aren't 'connected'. This situation of widely available firearms often leads expats to desire a firearm for home protection. If you have a partner who is a citizen this is not a problem as typically she can legally own the gun and have a permit to keep in the house relatively inexpensively - for her to get a permit to carry anywhere costs about $25/month. The analogous situation of what to do if one shoots an intruder often arises on our forums. One of the best solutions to this was to keep an unregistered gun in the house - if you ever have to use it (rare) the simple explanation for the police is that the intruder brought the unregistered gun with him, he got too close and in the ensuing struggle you wrested the gun from him and he got shot fatally. Any number of martial arts training sessions will show you how to disarm an assailant with a pistol - pick one and practice it (but never actually try this on a real armed assailant). Now you can back up your story plausibly. A similar cover story might be useful anytime you feel the need to protect your loved ones, yourself, or your property with a firearm. It is not enough to simply prepare for the event, you have to give some thought to what happens afterward. Even in the USA the most likely person to be arrested and charged where a gun was involved is the person that was in possession of the gun - and this is true despite the claim of self defense, concealed carry license, or stand your ground rules. Clearly in this case the gun cannot be registered to you and you must kill the intruder so there is only your story and the crime scene forensics. This option is not for everyone but must be considered any time lethal force is brought into the situation.
Great answer, good points, and a very good pre-plan for legal defense. Interesting information on P.I. gun laws and practices. Thanks for that good read.

I would also point out that the only person who is still around to BE arrested, is the survivor. Can't arrest the dead guy.
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