Security - What do You Do ?

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

...
The answer to the question should be simply to have some sort of early warning and a better weapon than the bad guy not an inferior weapon.... pepper spray, tazers, etc. that are generally non leathal are forbidden to the public to protect themselves. Why is this? Am I just a simpleton for thinking this should be a simpler question to answer?

A better weapon that the bad guy? I don't understand how that could work.

Where I come from, there is no neat division between good guys and bad guys.

For one thing, everyone's a good guy until the first time they are bad (or perhaps more truthfully, cross some arbitrary line and get caught)

Given that you're clearly not a simpleton, is it different where you come from?

Are bad people branded on the forehead, or something?

[Lagoon4us]

For the life of me i don't understand how living on board a boat should suddenly change your character/abilities/aspirations to those of a fighter experienced in hand to hand combat/warfare.

I don't want it! I'm 60 now, i'm quite capable of not making myself a victim, i'm quite capable of smelling/sensing the air and knowing when to move/leave.

Our boat is equipped with early warning, i know if someones on board, we lock our boat at night those lock's must be broken to gain access. We have an alarm via a loudspeaker that lets us select siren, voice or horn, we can wake the dead.

Our sensor that detects movement in certain areas turns the deck and outside house lights on. The hatches that are able to be used for access have a single 16mm SS bar across the centre that is only removeable from within.

As Dave from 'Goboatingnow' has rightly said 'You cannot have traps nor illegal weapons at hand' BUT your galley is entitled to have some large knives in a block to ultimately defend if needed, as in entry is gained.

Cruising to us is enjoyment, i see NO enjoyment in ultimately killing or maiming someone unless ultimately threatened ie NO CHOICE.

To summarise-
I'd rather opt for getting early warning that we were being boarded, prevent the boarding by security, escape via our waterline hatches that are fitted port and starboard, oh the advantages of a catamaran.

[konakoma]

Always feel secure with my service issue Colt M1911 45 ACP on board

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

To summarise-
I'd rather opt for getting early warning that we were being boarded, prevent the boarding by security, escape via our waterline hatches that are fitted port and starboard, oh the advantages of a catamaran.

Even if someone was firmly wedded to the idea of engaging in Mortal Kombat , with knives, swords or even guns! then your precautions would also make sense. if not actually more.

Personally I find the whole concept of sleeping with the door (hatch) unlocked let alone wide open when you have even the slightest of doubts about boat location to be bizarre to the point of stupidity - and doubly so if the person is relying on a weapon to defend themselves (Wife / Dog / Apple Pie ).

How does your weapon of choice (including a gun!) actually work when you are fast asleep? Honestly - how???

[Jimbo485]

Don't most people anchored out leave the door / hatch open?

Sure, marina life is different, especially with some of the nutcases on the other docks. (Those real mental cases dumped by an uncaring society, refused entry to an appropriate institution and who find that a boat is a nice cheap shelter but never cruise.)

But anchored out, in love with your boat, you are so in tune with the noises of the boat that you know when something changes or someone comes on board.

Unless you are pissed. That is true.... So lock up when you drink! Or get a dog!

[Matt Johnson]

Here's a security bar system for those that don't want to make one up themselves.

(click here)

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by konakoma

Always feel secure with my service issue Colt M1911 45 ACP on board

I didn't know its fires itself at assailants when youre asleep , good one. By the way how do you use it when it's in bonded storage at a foreign customs. Maybe it also flies to your hand on command, double good one.

Dave

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Here's a security bar system for those that don't want to make one up themselves.

(click here)

Actually this looks like a good product- maybe a bit expensive?

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

We have an alarm via a loudspeaker that lets us select siren, voice or horn, we can wake the dead.

Our sensor that detects movement in certain areas turns the deck and outside house lights on.

For my temperament and purposes this approach makes the most sense. Apologies if you've already mentioned this, but what brand system do you use? Or did you put one together yourself?

[canadianllama]

Originally Posted by Tar34

I had the misfortune of waking one night in my apartment with a Charles Manson type character standing over me. I can elaborate but I have a question.
I rolled off my bunk and grabbed a 12ga flare gun I had by the night stand. The intruder turned and walked out of the room. I then saw a second intruder walking out of my office. It was and upstairs apartment and they had reached the stairs and by the time I realized they had taken my wife's pocket book and my car keys and wallet, they had reached the street. One intruder was already in my truck but I managed to put the drop on Manson with the flare gun. He turned and started walking towards me, I shirtless and briefs. I slowly backed away as he walked towards me with the flare gun pointed squarely at his chest and me warning I was going to shoot. He was undeterred. The commotion and shouting luckily alerted the police who happened to parked across the street at the neighborhood Jiffy Mart. They arrived just seconds before I would have shot this fellow and they made his arrest but the second intruder escaped. Question. I always wondered if the flare gun would have stopped this fellow? At the time I realized I had only one shot. It never occurred to me to aim for the head. I was looking at the biggest target. I didn't want to miss. My feeling is it would not have stopped him. Needless to say, it was only days after that I purchased my first hand gun. A SS S&W 669 9mm automatic. Some say even that is not enough.

I saw a video about flare fun testing on YouTube. While it wouldn't of killed the guy, and if he was on drugs it may not have stopped him, if he was wearing a tee shirt it woulda hurt a lot and possible burnt him enuf to deter him.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

A better weapon that the bad guy? I don't understand how that could work.

Where I come from, there is no neat division between good guys and bad guys.

For one thing, everyone's a good guy until the first time they are bad (or perhaps more truthfully, cross some arbitrary line and get caught)

Given that you're clearly not a simpleton, is it different where you come from?

Are bad people branded on the forehead, or something?

Andrew,

I know American westerns have been exported to most of the world so the answer to whether someone is a good guy or a bad guy is by observing his hat. It is undisputed hollywood fact that all good guys where white hats.
Joking aside the bad guy I was referring to would be the one who is breaking into your domicile where you sleep whether on land or sea with obvious bad intentions. That is not an arbitrary line. The drunk sailor that boarded the wrong boat does not fall into the bad guy category.

[stephengrem]

Originally Posted by Tar34

I had the misfortune of waking one night in my apartment with a Charles Manson type character standing over me. I can elaborate but I have a question.
I rolled off my bunk and grabbed a 12ga flare gun I had by the night stand. The intruder turned and walked out of the room. I then saw a second intruder walking out of my office. It was and upstairs apartment and they had reached the stairs and by the time I realized they had taken my wife's pocket book and my car keys and wallet, they had reached the street. One intruder was already in my truck but I managed to put the drop on Manson with the flare gun. He turned and started walking towards me, I shirtless and briefs. I slowly backed away as he walked towards me with the flare gun pointed squarely at his chest and me warning I was going to shoot. He was undeterred. The commotion and shouting luckily alerted the police who happened to parked across the street at the neighborhood Jiffy Mart. They arrived just seconds before I would have shot this fellow and they made his arrest but the second intruder escaped. Question. I always wondered if the flare gun would have stopped this fellow? At the time I realized I had only one shot. It never occurred to me to aim for the head. I was looking at the biggest target. I didn't want to miss. My feeling is it would not have stopped him. Needless to say, it was only days after that I purchased my first hand gun. A SS S&W 669 9mm automatic. Some say even that is not enough.

That is some creepy ****. And your 9mm is better than nothing but you probably should try to hit them multiple times, but really for pure defense purpose I would just say to get good pepper spray. That stuff is horrible and there is a surprising amount in each bottle.

Personally though for a gun I would have a 45 loaded with hollow points. A good hit and they won't get up.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

Andrew,

I know American westerns have been exported to most of the world so the answer to whether someone is a good guy or a bad guy is by observing his hat. It is undisputed hollywood fact that all good guys where white hats.
Joking aside the bad guy I was referring to would be the one who is breaking into your domicile where you sleep whether on land or sea with obvious bad intentions. That is not an arbitrary line. The drunk sailor that boarded the wrong boat does not fall into the bad guy category.

Hmmm ... maybe I misunderstood how your intention might be realised, for the good guys to have better weapons than the bad guys.
I thought you meant they would be ALLOWED better weapons, which presupposes that there is some reliable way to sort everyone into two groups, ahead of time.
And some muscular legislation and enforcement ....

Your definition above seems to rely on hindsight to work out who are the good guys. It's too late, it seems to me, to wait until the guy's "breaking into your domicile" to take away his better gun.
Which may not be his gun; he might fraternise with "good guys" ....

And enforcing the division into these groups requires some sort of confidence that good guys are immune from turning bad (and vice versa), but that's a mere quibble ....

If you're simply saying that the good guys should ASPIRE to better weapons, I don't see any way for that not to simply intensify the current arms race between the two groups, whose logical conclusion is some sort of mutually assured destruction.

[mcarling]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

If you're simply saying that the good guys should ASPIRE to better weapons, how can that not simply intensify the arms race between the two groups, whose logical conclusion is mutually assured destruction?

Arms races have been going on for thousands of years. None of them have led to mutually assured destruction.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by mcarling

Arms races have been going on for thousands of years. None of them have led to mutually assured destruction.

To me, "logical conclusion" is an abstraction, not a prediction.

In a typical spiral, the theoretical extrapolation is not reached. Real factors come into play.

In the nuclear arms race, it has not (yet) been reached because there have not been enough stupid people in enough high places all at once for long enough.

It's up to the participants and constituents whether the "good guy vs bad guy" arms race in the US will come up against a similar constraint.