Security in foreign ports

[South Bound]

Sailing Totem wrote quite a good post about this sort of thing, I think. They've been sailing around the world for the past 8 years or so, which would include a lot of foreign places.

Guns and cruising | Sailing Totem

[royalstar]

"Security in foreign "ports"....try this one



Austrian tourist is left bleeding after tube attack | Daily Mail Online

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

...I'm thinking about a cut off switch for the ignition. Just a simple toggle in a hidden location for when I leave the boat for extended periods. But really any deterrents like that will only keep honest people honest. Enough time and desire and anything can be stolen.

Good idea about the cutoff switch. Simple solutions are usually the best. The mort complex things get the greater chance they will break when you need them most.

For all new posters, my original request pertains to what YOU do. I think most people know that they should ask the local harbor master, read the port guide and all that. But I'm more interested in steps you take to protect your boat and whether you feel safe leaving it alone in a strange port.

I visit various ports and harbors all the time and see dinghies laying about. Most people take their oars with them or lock them up. But I've had 4 bikes stolen that were locked with cables. My boatyard had several boats broken into one winter. People will get in. A good lock means you will have a broken door or hatch. They may work better for motors. But you have to get groceries and beer, right. If you are sailing with others, you can send one person for supplies.

In many ports, there are local yacht clubs. From what I've read, unless you are a member of a similar club they will charge a daily fee for docking. But you are probably safer there than anywhere else.

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by royalstar

"Security in foreign "ports"....try this one

Austrian tourist is left bleeding after tube attack | Daily Mail Online

This really has NOTHING to do with sailing or foreign ports. This lady was unfortunately attacked in the middle of town. That can happen anywhere and to anybody.

[Caribbeachbum]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalstar View Post
"Security in foreign "ports"....try this one

Austrian tourist is left bleeding after tube attack | Daily Mail Online
This really has NOTHING to do with sailing or foreign ports. This lady was unfortunately attacked in the middle of town. That can happen anywhere and to anybody.

Quote:
This really has NOTHING to do with sailing or foreign ports. This lady was unfortunately attacked in the middle of town. That can happen anywhere and to anybody.

That a story appears in the news media means that it is rare -- it's news. Things that are common generally do not get reported on. If you choose to live in fear of unlikely (rare) events, you should probably also choose to remain in a place that you feel (relatively) safe, rather than travel the world in a small yacht.

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by South Bound

Sailing Totem wrote quite a good post about this sort of thing, I think. They've been sailing around the world for the past 8 years or so, which would include a lot of foreign places.

Guns and cruising | Sailing Totem

Excellent article. But I would liked to see all their research and conclusions too. They listed a link to another post, but I'll read that later.

I, too, agree that safety is a relative thing. I have lived in Chicago most of my life. I've had bikes stolen several times, my car broken into and stuff taken from our yard. But I've never been robbed or seen any crime other than bike theft. I would not carry a gun around any city. If I was hiking or camping in a wilderness area I might carry a gun or have one in our camper. But, I'd leave it at home when sailing.

I have traveled to foreign cities a lot. I am always hyper aware when I'm not home. But even in Chicago I know where I am and who is around me. I'm a very big guy, so most thieves will probably pick someone else.

[Kita]

Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum

That a story appears in the news media means that it is rare -- it's news. Things that are common generally do not get reported on. If you choose to live in fear of unlikely (rare) events, you should probably also choose to remain in a place that you feel (relatively) safe, rather than travel the world in a small yacht.

that is a very good point! But no need to tempt things,I would still like to know what I can before I go there & if it is a rare thing or commonplace in the area..for example I am not a younger female, but one in a foreign country walking alone at night in clothes dressed for a nightclub, anyone really can make yourself a target & I think that's alot,just being smart & careful. .. OP is asking what to you do? Well be careful, try to blend, maybe go somewhere near the boat before I leave for a bit & eat or whatever, but ya gotta blend!! Life is a bit of a gamble. . You can live a long protected life somewhere, you can also get hit by a car or bus or ,well you get the idea..you want to live so,like a very famous guy from the Caribbean said and I quote ,,Don't Worry Be Happy!

[zeehag]

you are only as safe as you keep yourself.

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by royalstar

It is interesting that people from most crime ridden countries and with largest prison population in the world are always concerned about security in other countries. I can read and write in German and Spanish and when I go to their "nautical" sites I never encountered "questions" like this one about security in foreign ports.
Also I noticed that there is almost no problem when you are in Dutch or French Caribbean/Pacific "colonies", always is trouble in Anglo-Saxon colonies.
Maybe that is left over from anglosaxons mentality, loot, steal, pillage, haras natives and now "locals" just continue well learned school, or what they said "student surpassing teacher"...

I find your understanding of history quite funny. All cultures have pillaged in their history. It is not peculiar to English or Anglo-Saxon. And if you understood the root of the words you used you would be aware of that. The Angles and the Saxons were "invaders" from outside of England. They eventually colonized parts of England. But this is the history of Europe. Every country was invaded and ravaged at various points of history. Certain types of crime are low in Europe but higher in the US, while others are higher in Europe and lower in the US. If you get away from the big cities in all cases, there is much less crimes of all types.

As for colonies, the English colonies were the one that were mostly treated fairly by their invaders. Spain brought slaves to the New World and worked them to death. The Belgium Congo was the most ravaged of all places. British colonies often were left with roads, bridges, schools, and legal systems. But it is foolish to say that French or German colonies are better today. Do you really want to compare Haiti and the Dominican Republican to Bermuda and other Caribbean islands?

I think thievery and crime is more a condition of poverty. Rich peopple steal on Wall st. Poor people take your outboard.

But as a cruiser, I'd rather not come back from shopping or a tour to find my tender missing or the motor stolen, or worse, the boat ransacked. I'm not afraid, it will not make me stay home. But I've had things stolen in the US and seen people pick-pocketed in Europe. It doesn't make me not want to travel. But I'd rather not be the one who has to file the police report.

[s/v Jedi]

Born and raised in Holland but living in the Americas for more than 12 years, I know I have seen the best and worst places for both. I did see differences in the past but not anymore.

The biggest difference is that in Chicago you'll probably be mowed down by an automatic Glock or an AR15 while in Amsterdam you'll be mowed down by a Kalashnikov AK47.

Like Zeehag wrote: you are only as safe as you make it for yourself. I have met many of my fellow Dutchman telling me I am paranoid but unfortunately, many of them (and sailors in general) have been killed. We have had to say violence-based final goodbyes to way too many sailors: much, much more than from our landlubber friends and family. If you believe that you are safe because of your passport or because of the specific place you are sailing then you are fooling yourself. Some places, like Venezuela pose more danger, while in general the population there is more friendly and welcoming than anywhere else. The difference is the local law & order (i.e. government).

[Kita]

Was watching something about Africa & I noticed that the predators all seem too hide in the grass or stealth for ambush. ..but the prey seem to live free but be very aware of there surroundings. Suddenly it hit me, hey that's kind of like Cruisers,with people with bad intent as predators and cruisers as prey....smart prey live longer

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Kita

Was watching something about Africa & I noticed that the predators all seem too hide in the grass or stealth for ambush. ..but the prey seem to live free but be very aware of there surroundings. Suddenly it hit me, hey that's kind of like Cruisers,with people with bad intent as predators and cruisers as prey....smart prey live longer

Exactly. Not only are they very aware of their surroundings, they also have a solid plan in case the predator makes an attempt.

On a boat is should work the same: you need plans for what to do when you have a fire, when your boat sinks and for when the wolf presents itself. On commercial ships they are required to do drills for all of these scenarios; we as yachts are better off when we would do that as well.

We had several security incidents and the plan we executed worked 100% in every case. I can't describe how good it feels when you find an intruder on your swimming platform and that, while you engage him verbally at first, that from the corner of your eyes you see your wife triggering the plan and going inside to get the "backup". You then know this backup is coming and just need to create enough time. It allows you to maintain your firm stance that the attack stops right there. We have witnessed boats without a plan where everybody started screaming and running around, some even jumping overboard and hurting themselves and ven that scared the intruder enough to flee. A simple firm command would have had the same effect without any injuries.

I write this because it is often said that if thinking of these plans, let alone doing a drill, would ruin the fun of sailing for people. But those same people do have insurance, they have fire extinguishers, abandon-ship bags etc. but can't deal with the possibility of facing violence. That would be the weak point that bites them because it makes many even abandon the "keeping aware of surroundings" phase. We have friends sailing though Venezuelan waters, getting boarded by pirates who beat them up and took everything from them, then STILL sailing on and within 30 minutes being boarded by a second group of pirates who are now really pissed off because there's nothing to get. How hard is it to realize you are heading in the wrong direction...

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Not really relivant for this use but........ I design and manufacture custom made locks. I design them, prototype, and destructive test them.

The quote "if they want to get in, they will get in" is my pet hate because people believe this. It is an excuse given to them by installers who fit crap to crap and charge good money for a 5 second delay lock.

If they want to get in, they can be stopped, it just maybe unrealistic to do so.

Rant over.......As you were :-)

If you take it to the extreme I have to agree that if someone wants to get in they can. Nothing can be made that is 100% break-in proof, not even a maximum security bank safe. It might require torches, high explosives, diamond cutting tools and a week to do it but anything can breached given enough time and equipment.

On a boat, no matter how secure the hatches and ports, give me a chain saw (or a cutting torch if it's a steel boat) and I'll get in pretty quickly. Of course anyone for a 1/4 mile around will be coming by to see what the hell is going on which usually defeats the purpose of a break-in.

The solution is to make it take long enough, loud enough or so much work that it isn't worth it or the thief incurs a high risk of detection.

[Bigjim]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Born and raised in Holland but living in the Americas for more than 12 years, I know I have seen the best and worst places for both. I did see differences in the past but not anymore.

The biggest difference is that in Chicago you'll probably be mowed down by an automatic Glock or an AR15 while in Amsterdam you'll be mowed down by a Kalashnikov AK47.

Like Zeehag wrote: you are only as safe as you make it for yourself. I have met many of my fellow Dutchman telling me I am paranoid but unfortunately, many of them (and sailors in general) have been killed. We have had to say violence-based final goodbyes to way too many sailors: much, much more than from our landlubber friends and family. If you believe that you are safe because of your passport or because of the specific place you are sailing then you are fooling yourself. Some places, like Venezuela pose more danger, while in general the population there is more friendly and welcoming than anywhere else. The difference is the local law & order (i.e. government).

I know you are trying to be funny or ironic, but you are actually very UNLiKELY to be "mowed" down anywhere in Chicago. Most of the shootings actually happen in two areas of the city and mostly by hand gun. Few people are shot outside these two areas. Unfortunately, the victims are frequently innocent bystanders: people sitting on their porches, people walking down the sidewalk, even people sitting or sleeping inside their houses. Bullets know no boundaries but ballistics.

This puts the lie to the comments: "be prepared", "do your research" or "know where you are". How can you " be prepared for a stray bullet? Never visit Chicago? Millions visit every year and nothing happens to them. You would miss a great city and amazing culture.

I'm actually more cautious of places like Texas where more average citizens carry guns. Several people were shot in Texas simply ringing someone's doorbell after being lost or having a car accident.

[Kenomac]

Cruise in areas where you don't need to worry about this stuff. Stay in marinas with security. We're in anchorages five months per year without a concern about theft, it's the least of our worries. We go ashore nearly every day, and don't feel the need to even lock up our dinghy. If someone needs to move our dinghy, so be it... we don't get upset. We always ask first if it's ok to leave it.