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Old 13-12-2012, 13:31   #136
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In my experience and having met many cruising yachtsmen, I think few are doing it for freedom and self-reliance. Most are doing it to see interesting destinations by way of the sea in a small boat because the love the mode. Along the way they develop self reliance etc.

Most cruisers are gregarious people, sure they are often comfortable with themselves, but I beleive that's a coping skill rather then a sort after characteristic. Man is not a loner by nature and many cruisers form friends and act in groups , consistent with the difficulties of travelling by sail.

Freedom in the modern world is a very illusory thing. We travel full to the brim with indentidy documents, proofs of ownership, payment mechanisms, certificates and various proofs of competency from everything from sailing, diving to driving a car. We cross oceans under the guidance of satellites and are tracked by many methods. We have " freedom" only in so much as we are allowed. That's is the sorry state we find ourselves. Luckily for the western world, such oversight of our activities remains in the main, hidden and hence we develop the illusion of " freedom ", in reality as long as we can experience our desires , it matters not

Dave
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Old 13-12-2012, 14:05   #137
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

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Originally Posted by Gelfling View Post
................. your neighbor doesn't have to be planted 20 feet from you, you could be up the creek a mile, around the bend...you get what I am saying. But as a 'neighbor' one could be available in the case of an emergency....social gathering.....advice.....etc. A 'non-digital' cruisers forum of sorts! ..............................
...and with these words I hear Tina Turner belting out, "...people on the river are happy to give." - Proud Mary Everywhere we've cruised since we left Annapolis in 1971 we have found ourselves among a supportive community. Sometimes just a light on the horizon or a voice on the VHF.
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Old 13-12-2012, 14:30   #138
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

There's no need to form some sort of collective; why not just buy a boat and join a rally? Or better yet, offer to volunteer to be crew on a west coast rally like the Baja Ha Ha sponsored by Latitude 38 out of Frisco.

"But as a 'neighbor' one could be available in the case of an emergency....social gathering.....advice.....etc." Op Quote from above

A rally is what you've described. Stop with the social/political dreaming... Just go cruising and start making some friends from distant lands. There's lots of wonderful people in every port. Why discriminate and limit yourself to being only around other like-minded "beings?"

If using a composting head is something that floats your boat... do that too.
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Old 13-12-2012, 21:41   #139
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

Does anyone have contact or know how to contact the Sailing
the Farm Future Sea Gypsy Commune to see if maybe we
could get someone connected with a "sailing commune" to
express their ideas and give their viewpoint in as much as
we have not heard from any real sailing commune people
up to this point. It is possible that when we hear it from
the source we might have a changed perspective about
our ideas on the subject. At least I hope personally I'm
capable of maintaining an open mind until I have more
information. Please post an email address or other contact
if you have it so that an invitation to participate can be
made. Thanks,
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Old 13-12-2012, 22:35   #140
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlum46 View Post
Does anyone have contact or know how to contact the Sailing
the Farm Future Sea Gypsy Commune to see if maybe we
could get someone connected with a "sailing commune" to
express their ideas and give their viewpoint in as much as
we have not heard from any real sailing commune people
up to this point. It is possible that when we hear it from
the source we might have a changed perspective about
our ideas on the subject. At least I hope personally I'm
capable of maintaining an open mind until I have more
information. Please post an email address or other contact
if you have it so that an invitation to participate can be
made. Thanks,
member's name is zeyang
and her thread is here

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Old 17-12-2012, 08:50   #141
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

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Originally Posted by jdlum46 View Post
Does anyone have contact or know how to contact the Sailing the Farm Future Sea Gypsy Commune ....
Contact for Lin Zeyang at Sailing the Farm can also be on the following website:
sailing the farm - sailing/boatbuilding coop. :: Communities Directory

--caliph
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Old 18-02-2013, 02:30   #142
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

I came across this group of 10 Norwegians who've collectively bought a cat and will be sailing around the world over the next year.

Blue Marble | Crossing the Pacific in the wake of history

They're following in the footsteps of the skipper's parents who circumnavigated back in 1986 with five couples and eight kids over several years. That sounds pretty damn communal to me.

To me, this sort of co-ownership approach makes a whole lot of sense.
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Old 18-02-2013, 03:32   #143
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
In my experience and having met many cruising yachtsmen, I think few are doing it for freedom and self-reliance. Most are doing it to see interesting destinations by way of the sea in a small boat because the love the mode. Along the way they develop self reliance etc.

Most cruisers are gregarious people, sure they are often comfortable with themselves, but I beleive that's a coping skill rather then a sort after characteristic. Man is not a loner by nature and many cruisers form friends and act in groups , consistent with the difficulties of travelling by sail.

Freedom in the modern world is a very illusory thing. We travel full to the brim with indentidy documents, proofs of ownership, payment mechanisms, certificates and various proofs of competency from everything from sailing, diving to driving a car. We cross oceans under the guidance of satellites and are tracked by many methods. We have " freedom" only in so much as we are allowed. That's is the sorry state we find ourselves. Luckily for the western world, such oversight of our activities remains in the main, hidden and hence we develop the illusion of " freedom ", in reality as long as we can experience our desires , it matters not

Dave
Dave


"freedom" is a relative concept. As soon as you join a group (tribe, marriage,community) you will relinquish some of your "freedom". You do this in exchange for what the group is offering (security, food, sex etc). Various societies around the world require various degrees of relinquishment.

Cruising, does allow you to retain control over many things you would not have when on the hard. but, sadly (as you point out) we are still controlled hand and foot. there are damn few places left in the world where "civilization" doesn't exercise some level of control. And, sadly again, those few places are generally rather undesirable places to live.

An accumulation of wealth (great wealth) gives you the opportunity to write your won rules - a possibility most of us do not have
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Old 18-02-2013, 10:07   #144
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budawang View Post
I came across this group of 10 Norwegians who've collectively bought a cat and will be sailing around the world over the next year.

Blue Marble | Crossing the Pacific in the wake of history

They're following in the footsteps of the skipper's parents who circumnavigated back in 1986 with five couples and eight kids over several years. That sounds pretty damn communal to me.

To me, this sort of co-ownership approach makes a whole lot of sense.
Thanks for the update. This will be a blog to follow for sure. Though for me, 10 people on one boat is a bit much. Maybe if it was 10 people on 5 boats (or something of the sort), and it probably could be done at about the same price.....if the 5 boats were mono's. I am thinking their cat as 4 staterooms, so there is going to be someone (or two, or three) that is ultimately not going to have their own 'space'.

As long as we are our own individual 'self', it just seems important (to me) to have a space to celebrate that. So....I guess if this was 4 couples (8 people total) I can see the potential in this. And if the couples split the watch schedule, that would be 6 hour watch schedules! NOW THAT IS SAILING!
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Old 18-02-2013, 11:15   #145
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
An accumulation of wealth (great wealth) gives you the opportunity to write your won rules - a possibility most of us do not have
That is a myth. The more wealth you have, the more you get owned by other people. Taxman, family, everybody wants a piece of you and often they succeed.

It is still good to be rich. Often you can make things go smoother by chucking money at a problem. But writing your own rules? Never happens.


Onno
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Old 18-02-2013, 15:30   #146
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

I can't believe we are still talking about communes. It is a great concept but has been proven time and time again to fail once it runs up against human instinct. They all devolve into anarchy or dictatorships run for the connected insiders - from the Soviet Union all the way down to the Occupy movement. There has never been a successful communist program no matter how many times its tried.
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Old 19-02-2013, 00:33   #147
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelfling View Post
Thanks for the update. This will be a blog to follow for sure. Though for me, 10 people on one boat is a bit much. Maybe if it was 10 people on 5 boats (or something of the sort), and it probably could be done at about the same price.....if the 5 boats were mono's. I am thinking their cat as 4 staterooms, so there is going to be someone (or two, or three) that is ultimately not going to have their own 'space'.

As long as we are our own individual 'self', it just seems important (to me) to have a space to celebrate that. So....I guess if this was 4 couples (8 people total) I can see the potential in this. And if the couples split the watch schedule, that would be 6 hour watch schedules! NOW THAT IS SAILING!
I don't think they'll all be sailing at the same time so space should be manageable. I think it's a great idea for a group of people to buy and sail a boat. I'm currently in a three-way yacht partnership and it works really well so long as you're tolerant, flexible, enjoy each others company and everyone is willing to chip in. I often use the boat on my own, but relish the opportunity to sail with one, or both, my partners. Everything costs one third as much, you pool your skills and maintenance is so much easier. We're more friends than partners and we would be friends even if we didn't have a boat in common.

I could easily envisage taking this one step further where a group of people buy a nice big cat and sail it around the world with shareholders joining the boat for different passages. I'm guessing the Norwegians paid something like $300K for their boat so that would work out to be about $30K each. You might have to add another $10K each for running/maintenance costs for the 3 years the boat is cruising. At the end of the circumnavigation (or just dawdling across the Pacific) the boat could be sold for, say, $250K which means the net cost for each shareholder would be $15K. For arguments sake let's say there are, on average, 3 of the 10 shareholders cruising at any one time. This would mean each shareholder would cruise for, on average, about one year out of the 3 year cruise. $15K (plus food and flights) is pretty damn affordable for one year of cruising on a large, luxurious catamaran. This could be even more affordable if the boat was sold in Australia, for example, where cats command a premium. I wonder why more people aren't doing this sort of thing? I suppose it's not so easy to find 9 other people you really trust to have the qualities I mentioned above.
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Old 19-02-2013, 00:42   #148
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

Didn't L. Ron Hubbard have a boating commune just offshore?
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Old 19-02-2013, 05:44   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budawang View Post

I don't think they'll all be sailing at the same time so space should be manageable. I think it's a great idea for a group of people to buy and sail a boat. I'm currently in a three-way yacht partnership and it works really well so long as you're tolerant, flexible, enjoy each others company and everyone is willing to chip in. I often use the boat on my own, but relish the opportunity to sail with one, or both, my partners. Everything costs one third as much, you pool your skills and maintenance is so much easier. We're more friends than partners and we would be friends even if we didn't have a boat in common.

I could easily envisage taking this one step further where a group of people buy a nice big cat and sail it around the world with shareholders joining the boat for different passages. I'm guessing the Norwegians paid something like $300K for their boat so that would work out to be about $30K each. You might have to add another $10K each for running/maintenance costs for the 3 years the boat is cruising. At the end of the circumnavigation (or just dawdling across the Pacific) the boat could be sold for, say, $250K which means the net cost for each shareholder would be $15K. For arguments sake let's say there are, on average, 3 of the 10 shareholders cruising at any one time. This would mean each shareholder would cruise for, on average, about one year out of the 3 year cruise. $15K (plus food and flights) is pretty damn affordable for one year of cruising on a large, luxurious catamaran. This could be even more affordable if the boat was sold in Australia, for example, where cats command a premium. I wonder why more people aren't doing this sort of thing? I suppose it's not so easy to find 9 other people you really trust to have the qualities I mentioned above.
I see what you are saying now. I agree, a coop is a great way to own a boat with partners that can be trusted. And these folks may just be joining for diff different passages. But I started the thread in the Liveabourd Forum looking to get ideas/thoughts about how this would work amongst those who counted on their boats as a home as well. Things like how a `pooling of skills' could help.....etc. And maybe you are on to something about the pooling of finances in that a marina may be willing to lessen published rates for a `group rate`..... though I have never seen anything like this it would appear that .... for a marina owner.....5 full slips for a season is better that 5 empty slips. Maybe even a coop of coops could work this way to reduce costs even further.
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Old 19-02-2013, 11:41   #150
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Re: Sailing Commune ?

There are quite a few seafaring communes. Basically they collectively own a large sail-powered boat, sometimes much like a "junk", and travel the globe or a coastline. "Members" come and go over time, and contribute their skills to the endeavor. I don't know how you find these folks but I have run into them time to time while cruising.
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