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Old 19-12-2016, 20:19   #16
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

Not picking a side here, but I bet that ambassador's ghost wished he had an exclusion zone around him now...

Wonder where this issue in Turkey is going to go.. Archduke Ferdinand and his wife were assassinated in their car when a fellow (a muslim, if I recall correctly) tossed a grenade in their car. The resulting bedlam started WW1. I wonder if that is what will happen here, given that the Russians are fighting in a conflict with another side against a third side, with multiple other sides also involved, and civilians attempting to dig one another out of the rubble when the following waves of planes hit the gathered rescuers because the group arrived at the original bombing location in Aleppo. Basically they are just hitting crowds. It is not pretty... I can see things getting waaaaaaaaaaaaay far out of hand now.
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Old 19-12-2016, 22:16   #17
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

It's fitting you mention Gavrilo he was indeed a bosnick but was a Yugoslav Nationalist who believed in a unified Serb/Croatian/Bosnian state. His affiliation with the black hand was mainly serb, but they wanted to be independent of the Austrian Hungarians empire.

I think it's very fitting because on the surface yah the assassin was a Muslim. But what drove him wasnt a desire to create a caliphate, kill all infidels or eliminate us presence in Saudi Arabia, but his perception that russian policy in Syria basically led to the humanitarian crisis on Aleppo.

He probably has more in common on that particular point with western humanitarian NGOs. He could have been a misguided bleeding heart liberal if they were the type to handle a gun.
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Old 19-12-2016, 22:26   #18
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

Destiny, I meant the man who grenaded the car was a Muslim. I also agree he did not do that for killing infidel purposes and that it was a political hit back then as well, but merely mentioned his religion in passing as a coincidental issue, that's all. My higher point was that neither of the victims would have died had they been less available to be killed by removing the possibility for killers to get close enough to them.

As far as the other part of the thought processes of the modern assassin, I agree with you on that as well. There is always some kook out there who is not really associated with any defined organization officially (more in the assassin's mind than in the thoughts of organization management, though some organizations readily claimed involvement when the attack was successful, all too eager to claim yet another victory over a foe). That kook then does something nutty and violent and proclaims it is to pay someone back for something that the victim him/herself did not actually even do, more being a symbol of the accused protagonist in the mind of the assassin.

I think the Russian diplomat was one such victim, as was Archduke Ferdinand, and especially the Archduke's wife, whom I suspect was primarily just collateral damage. It sure did rile up Europe, however, caused a global war (well by those days' standards, anyway), and that set the stage for the next global war, which set the stage for many of the wars that followed.

It is difficult to anticipate what if anything the Russians will do differently, though, other than perhaps to step up attacks, but they would be hitting people who still have nothing whatsoever with planning or executing the assassination. That is what will make this unpredictable, in my opinion, for whatever that may be worth.
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Old 19-12-2016, 22:53   #19
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

Fortunately, we enjoyed Turkey not long ago when things weren't so crazy.



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Old 20-12-2016, 06:41   #20
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

On Yotworld brokerage there are often tons and tons of wooden gullets for sale. Heaps on heaps.

Why is that?

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Old 20-12-2016, 07:25   #21
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

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On Yotworld brokerage there are often tons and tons of wooden gullets for sale. Heaps on heaps.

Why is that?

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They have a lot of them and most were not build with very high standards ie short service life..
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Old 20-12-2016, 07:44   #22
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

When I first heard about this event my mind lept to
Archduke Ferdinand. I hope cool heads will prevail
but with the combo of Putin and Trump (soon) I am
not overly optimistic. The combination of
Nationalism, Ego & Machisimo are Toxic.
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Old 20-12-2016, 07:59   #23
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

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Tread carefully in Turkey folks.. the Islamisation of the LEA's and military under Erdogan seems to be getting out of hand.. the Russian Ambassador has been killed and three others shot by a serving young Turkish police officer at an Art Gallery..
US Embassy warning citizens to stay away.
This is related to Liveaboard's Forum how ??
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Old 20-12-2016, 08:03   #24
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

Our leaders are like those Turkish gullets then - overpriced props from Pirates of the Caribbean rather than Hoek quality ships.

It is amazing we expect long training and proof of professional ability from our dentists, financial advisers and electricians but we let the helms of our nations to be held by rich ignorants in blonde wigs and retired kgb agents.

We need different captains if we want a different future.

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Old 20-12-2016, 08:53   #25
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

Turkey has pretty much rolled off the tracks IMO. Shooting down a Russian aircraft in what Russia described as a planned attack by accomplices of the terrorists, then Turkey came out to assure Ukraine they do not recognise Russias annexation of the Crimea, and now smoking the ambassador will probably result in Russia either posting their own security or getting their mission out of Turkey. Neither are good signs.

With Turkey being a NATO member it becomes 'our' problem (presumption) because Putin wont give up his warm water port in the Med for anything, should even more direct hostility occur particularly in the area of the port he will begin to remove bits of Turkey from the earths surface.

Turkey should have been instructed to 'settle down petal' the first time, but we were too busy applauding getting one up on Putin. Before we get into a situation we are contractually obliged to resolve militarily, Turkey needs to be told its on its own for awhile in the hope that cooler heads prevail and the descending into madness characterising that part of the globe doesn't spread.

In the meantime, I'd be avoiding that part of the Mediterranean Sea which will no doubt be bristling with Russian Navy warships.
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:03   #26
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

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Turkey should have been instructed to 'settle down petal' the first time, but we were too busy applauding getting one up on Putin. Before we get into a situation we are contractually obliged to resolve militarily, Turkey needs to be told its on its own for awhile in the hope that cooler heads prevail and the descending into madness characterising that part of the globe doesn't spread.

In the meantime, I'd be avoiding that part of the Mediterranean Sea which will no doubt be bristling with Russian Navy warships.
^^^^ What He Said ^^^^
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:20   #27
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

Quote: "It sure did rile up Europe, however, caused a global war"

hm... For a more subtle, more realistic perspective on the "cause" of that spot of bother, read Robert Massey's "Dreadnought". Not much to do with garden variety political-cum-religious assassinations, but rather a lot to do with hegemony and armaments races.

Since that armaments race was naval, I believe it qualifies for discussion here - irrelevant though it is ;-)

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Old 20-12-2016, 09:35   #28
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

Boatman61's word of caution should be heeded. I spent over 30 years in many of the 'garden spots' of the Middle East not only in Farsi speaking but Arabic speaking nations. When all is said and done, the life expectancy today of any westerner whether from GB or the US would be measured in months not years or even less.
I left that part of the world in 1998 never to return but even then I could see that no good would ever come out the unresolved and continuing conflict that had its roots in religious divide. The African continent was the worst but the seeds of conflict had already been sown in the Yugoslavian and Turkish areas. Pity, because it had great cruising and wandering areas to be explored. Phil
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:37   #29
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

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Not picking a side here, but I bet that ambassador's ghost wished he had an exclusion zone around him now...
All the exclusion zones for political VIPs really do is make us the ordinary folk the targets of the terrorists. If the terrorist cannot be stopped, for whatever reason, isn't it less damaging when a particular policy maker is hit than a bunch of innocent bystanders? Just being realistic here and not trying to score any political points. Historically it seems that most terrorists of whatever persuasion always start out trying to take out the politicians first and only when faced with inability to do so gravitate toward other targets or the general public.
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:43   #30
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Re: Russian Ambassador in Turkey assasinated

I'm not even sure why this is a post on a cruising forum.

I follow this: Strive for justice and peace among all people, and respect the dignity of every human being
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