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Old 28-04-2012, 08:58   #91
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

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Too long to read Tom...
That's good - but in a bad way!

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Old 28-04-2012, 09:02   #92
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

I am with Ex-Calif on this one,Mi Casa es Su Casa, for the most part.
I was raised to believe that guest's to ones home on land or afloat where blameless because they where just THAT "Guests" also as on land/a'sea that the Skipper or Man/Woman of the house have the first and last word concerning etiquette.

While in my home, my guests have the benefit of my protection(it is my Casa/Castle after all)and my good graces concerning food and drink(my menu). If i have 13 on a 12 plate then i will ask for guests to chip in.

Most guests will have the foresight to bring a suitable conversational lubricant,and when it comes to food will partake of my Table unless they wish to bring and prepare their own dishes.

After the guests leave there is always the cleanup and grumbling about what who said to whom, and who did what when they shouldn't have. but by and large much laughter is the result after all is said and done.

I expect things to get a little more complicated on my boat seeing it is a set of confined spaces and all that, but i anticipate having introductory conversations with my guests on the demands placed on all of us due to the surroundings.

Captain Bligh is welcome to his rules as it is His Vessel, as Mine is Mine.

"When in Rome do as the Romans do, and render unto Caesar what is Caesars"
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Old 28-04-2012, 09:15   #93
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

You don't need to be a lawyer to know that 8 pages of rules that include potential payment obligations is a contract. It's appropriate to present a contract in some settings but IMHO it's rude to present one to guests and dates on your boat.

If you think it's appropriate to share expenses, then bring it up verbally when you make the invite, not in an 8 page contract. When I invite a guest I never ask for expense sharing, but they generally offer and I might accept a contribution of food/beverage or if planning an extended trip might agree to share other expenses (e.g. mooring/fuel) depending on the relationship.

A social invite is just that. If they aren't good guests you suffer through and don't invite them back. It's appropriate to have labels or cards that explain the head operation and "rules of the head" or "rules of the boat", and take time to explain operation of safety equipment (PFD's, radio, Flairs) or the dangers of the traveler/winches. But if they don't comply you clean up after them and don't invite them back.

OTOH, if the reason you're inviting "guests" is for expense sharing, then it's not just for the social companionship and you are "using each other" by mutual agreement. My own opinion (not a legal opinion) is that's a quasi-business arrangement and your 8 page agreement might be good to have. I woudn't use it because I would worry that it might be construed as a charter.
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Old 28-04-2012, 09:32   #94
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

My parents told me the rules when I grew up over a period of about 20 years. I don't need anybody to shove 8 pages of his rules in my face.
The friends I keep had about the same upbringing and know the rules too. Sometimes they come to my place or boat for dinner and sometimes we go over and see them for dinner. We don't need to charge or pay anybody because we are friends and I don't go there for the food or drinks I go there to spend time with my friends.
That is how it works around here and I like it that way.
Cheers
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Old 28-04-2012, 09:46   #95
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Eight pages? I've chartered boats for a week with less paperwork than that!
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Old 28-04-2012, 10:30   #96
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This will be our first year cruising on our C27. We've already planned a weekend cruise with another sailor and some work friends. Since we're all layed off in the summer we agreed up front that we'll pool expenses. But I think this is an exception. Usually when we have guests at home we don't expect them to chip in for stuff at home, but pay their own way when we're out and about.
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Old 28-04-2012, 10:34   #97
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

Another who would appreciate your shared list.
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When I was a boy my momma would send me down to the corner store with $1 and I would come back with 5 potatoes, 2 loaves of bread, 3 bottles of milk, a hunk of cheese, a box of tea and 6 eggs. Can't do that now, too many f**kn security cameras.
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Old 28-04-2012, 10:51   #98
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

Chill folks - I don't think Tom is inviting most of you onboard anyway . Well, at least not now....... as most of you are probably covered on Page 8 .

FWIW, on my boat Rule #927 says that any female who is over 18 and "fit" must dance naked around the mast. For me that rule is obvious - for others it has come as a surprise.......

....that possibly also something to do with Rule #928 - where I expect them to be showering me with dollar bills .

My boat. My rules .
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Old 28-04-2012, 11:01   #99
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

If I don't get to ride on your boat David when you are transporting a girls college soccer team, I at least want to be anchored nearby.
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Old 28-04-2012, 11:02   #100
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

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Originally Posted by Tom Hildebrandt View Post
Whew, this type of discussion seems to always get folks all wound up. Lets cut down on the ad hominem arguments and stick to the facts. For as we all know, or should know, such arguments are always the definitive sign of a weak and unsupportable argument.

Tom
Sometimes, but often not.

To avoid misunderstanding and ruffled feathers, I am not referring to you in the following comments, Tom. I argue for a living, and I am referring to past opponents.

Sometimes it's just a waste of time to address every false premise or logical fallacy raised by a moron. Sometimes one may be superior at fencing, with better conditioning, faster reflexes, better-honed technique and skill than the unworthy opponent, and the successful outcome is inevitable. Often it's more effective to avoid the tedium and simply pull out a hand cannon to rid yourself of the nuisance. Sometimes audiences, judges and juries are thinking the same thing, and sometimes they appreciate a sharp blast of sarcasm in lieu of time-consuming tit-for-tat technical argumentation.

So, no: Ad hominem remarks do NOT mean the archer's quiver is stocked with weak and unsupportable arrows. It simply means he/she does not want to waste those superior arrows on unworthy opponents. (School yard tactics are a different dynamic entirely).

To bring this back on point, ad hominem attacks on the skipper are bad etiquette and are likely to result in a keel-hauling. That's on page nine of the addendum to my rulebook.
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Old 28-04-2012, 11:15   #101
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

DOJ, I just want to see what else to add to my list so that I am absolutely sure no one will accept the invitations I give them to spend time aboard with me and my wife.
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When I was a boy my momma would send me down to the corner store with $1 and I would come back with 5 potatoes, 2 loaves of bread, 3 bottles of milk, a hunk of cheese, a box of tea and 6 eggs. Can't do that now, too many f**kn security cameras.
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Old 28-04-2012, 11:17   #102
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

I forgot to add...specifically family.
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When I was a boy my momma would send me down to the corner store with $1 and I would come back with 5 potatoes, 2 loaves of bread, 3 bottles of milk, a hunk of cheese, a box of tea and 6 eggs. Can't do that now, too many f**kn security cameras.
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Old 28-04-2012, 11:20   #103
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

My fiancÚ and I would like to implement DOJ's rules on our boat. Can we see the entire list?
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Old 28-04-2012, 11:30   #104
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

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Tom, please post your eight pages of rules, or at least in a PM to me. Thanks!
I'm serious! Want to know what I may be missing.
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Old 28-04-2012, 11:40   #105
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Funny, my wife and I just finished a Colgate sailing course off captiva island. I think the contract, waivers, and general instructions ran four pages.

I'm with the sailors who think of their boats like their houses. Next time Mom comes to dinner I'll present her a dossier of rules and a bill for her share of the evening's expenses (including a pro rata share of utilities of course) and see what she thinks.
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