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Old 28-04-2012, 04:13   #76
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
If I ever have need of an 8 page "summation" of guest expectations I'm not allowing/having anymore guests!

If I showed up on someone else's boat and they gave me 8 pages of rules I would be taking the ride back to shore!
OH YEA!!!!!
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Old 28-04-2012, 05:19   #77
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
there is a fine line between chartering and sharing the sail. make sure NO money changes hands. keep all receipts. smooth sailing.
you break it or clog it--you fix it... works for me.

Clog it I agree with, assuming I warned you.

Break it? What led to the item being breakable -- extreme abuse by the guest, or poor maintenance by the boat owner, or the fact that it's an item with a finite life?

What do you do if a guest accidentally drops a winch overboard? What if it floats but you forgot to take a net? Mine is in my dockbox and rarely on the boat. Have to make a mental note to add that to my checklist for longer cruises ...
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Old 28-04-2012, 05:20   #78
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

I read and saved the 8 pages...I'm pretty laid back about boats so I may not give it to EVERYONE coming aboard.

But the VAST majority of family, friends and even fellow boaters have LITTLE or NO cruising experience.

THEY don't have to live with their actions or fix anything....soooooo...I think the list is a great start for many to read long before they show up for the cruise...hopefully it scares off the wayyyyy too laid back and irresponsible crowd before they come ruin my trip..
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Old 28-04-2012, 05:34   #79
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

Whew, this type of discussion seems to always get folks all wound up. Lets cut down on the ad hominem arguments and stick to the facts. For as we all know, or should know, such arguments are always the definitive sign of a weak and unsupportable argument.

First and foremost, I do use a modest type, and do not double space, and am rather verbose (this response should prove the veracity of this item), so 8 pages is what it is! I could easily make this into a 30 page pamphlet with the experiences I have had. In fact some of the most fun I have at anchorages around the world is discussing crew issues with other sailors.

To those who have enough "at sea time" on someone elses boat to know how to behave, and therefore believe they do not need to read or even begin to comply with a set of protocols, I would suggest that my experiences lead me to the conclusion that you are exactly the kind of person most likely to get kicked off my boat at the first port. The only person who I ever had to kick off Juno (happened in the Maldives after the passage from Thailand) was a guy who came onboard who touted himself as a world class sailor with heaps of experience, he chose not to read the protocols. Although he told me he had no problems with any of them, he continued to drink on watch, and was disruptive with the crew. He did only the minimum of the daily chores and balked at doing anything extra. When I was having discussions with the agent in the Maldives to make arrangements for clearance, he continued to break into the conversation redirecting the agent to answering his personal questions. This is the short list of his deficiencies, Juno and I are happy to say so long good riddance to this kind of crew, be they guest, visitor, friend or even family member.

I contrast his attitude with the two other persons with substantive sailing experience, one a circumnavigator and the other a veteran of ten years as a charter skipper, they had no problem with the per diem or the protocols. They both said they felt that they did not need the information, but they understood that with a disparate group of folks on board, this was a decent solution to make sure everyone was on the same playing field.

Those who choose to make distinctions between guests, crew, family, visitors, etc, your opinions and characterization of how they should be treated on board are certainly valid. Nevertheless, my protocols are to be applied equally to all the above, I do not single out one set from another. It just makes my life as a skipper easier. I do not wish to be a Capt Bligh type, but some times I do need to speak to those on board. Having the protocols makes the discussion less personal, and in my not so humble opinion it makes things a bit more professional.

For those who have chosen to take cheap shots at the character of those who I have asked to be my dates, I would relish the opportunity for see what happens if you did that face to face with these ladies. And ladies they are, rest assured! But better yet, I would suggest you should start your own thread so we can discuss morals, ethics and cultural differences regarding the mating game as an issue separate from etiquette onboard a cruising sailboat. I offered that tidbit about my personal life only as a matter of clarity on the per diem issue, no more or less. Once you open that thread we can all expend the amount of time and energy venting our feelings that this topic deserves, or not!

Regarding fee structure and the legal issues around crew verses guest, etc; I would suggest that those who make bold statements about what is legal or what is approved or correct, need to enter the field of maritime law! If you could prepare, and successfully defend a given position of this topic that would have universal acceptance, you would be one rich person! At the moment, no one in that field can state definitively what is what on these issues. Not only does it change state to state within the US, there is no definitive policy by the USCG about this matter. And we have not even begun to speak to the matter as it relates to other jurisdictions. But that too is best a topic for another thread, start one up and I will chime in with my experiences.

For those who have asked to see my protocols, I am considering that as a possibility. The downside on that, given the way some respond on these threads, I am not so certain I want to take the time to respond to the arguments.

The simple fact is that Juno is my boat, and how I chose to handle some things will be different than the way you chose to handle them on your boat. If I were to visit your boat, I would appreciate that someone told me how they wished for guest/crew/visitors to behave, that way I would not have to guess about your quirks and peculiarity's! Differences are a good a good thing!

Cheers to all, especially those who made private PM's!

Can't write more this morning, my hand is cramping and I have a tennis match!

Tom
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Old 28-04-2012, 05:50   #80
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

  • I can't imagine inviting someone for more than an afternoon that I did not know very well. I don't enjoy overnights with strangers or relative strangers.
  • Pleasant guests are invited back, others are not.
And so other than a few simple educational statements as we plan and set out, I've never needed or wanted to correct anyone.
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Old 28-04-2012, 05:57   #81
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

"To those who have enough "at sea time" on someone elses boat to know how to behave, and therefore believe they do not need to read or even begin to comply with a set of protocols, I would suggest that my experiences lead me to the conclusion that you are exactly the kind of person most likely to get kicked off my boat at the first port."

AMEN!!!!!!!

I had a guy I thought I knew (had sailed and raced on his boat) on my boat for a long trip. Although his boat was considerably smaller than mine, and had NO electronic equipment, he REFUSED to learn how to use the chart plotter. He never found, therefore, the GREAT advantage of a chart plotter -- zooming in. All sorts of information hidden in there that just won't fit on a static, printed chart.

I was then flushing the head with fresh water and VERY EXPLICITLY told him to use a full (small) bucket of water. He came back triumphantly after one trip and announced with a superior air that he had managed to flush it with 1/3 of the bucket.

I pointed out to him that there was now stuff stopped in the hose, not all the way to the tank. He said "So?" Guess whose boat had not had a head ...

That's just a few of MANY examples I could give from two days. We had to turn back but if that hadn't been necessary, I would have stopped at the next marina and put him off with bus fare money.

I don't care how much experience someone else has had, on their own or other boats. This is MY boat, and I really do know it better than they do.
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Old 28-04-2012, 05:58   #82
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hildebrandt View Post
For those who have asked to see my protocols, I am considering that as a possibility. The downside on that, given the way some respond on these threads, I am not so certain I want to take the time to respond to the arguments. Post them, but don't feel the need to defend/respond.

The simple fact is that Juno is my boat, and how I chose to handle some things will be different than the way you chose to handle them on your boat. If I were to visit your boat, I would appreciate that someone told me how they wished for guest/crew/visitors to behave, that way I would not have to guess about your quirks and peculiarity's! Differences are a good a good thing! I definitely support the "it's my boat and therefore my rules"! But I would still probably not chose to go on a boat with 8 pages of written rules. Last time I did such a thing it cost me 11 years of my ife in the navy.

I doubt it woud have made any difference whether the guy you left on the beach had read the rules! He was just 1 of those a-hole dangerous crew type persons.
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Old 28-04-2012, 06:50   #83
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

Well it may be just me but, I tend to use the boat to get away from people. Then again I really enjoy my solitude. If something breaks I know it's my fault. I had a fellow who crews with me sometime. He's an experienced sailor but, I call him Jonah. Because whenever he's on board more stuff just seems to break.
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Old 28-04-2012, 07:38   #84
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

WOW, I never thought of putting something in writing, or having GUEST pay. We have couples on board all of the time, weekends and weeks. All we do is to have a night before the trip and plan the points of interest they want to see and the other important thing to plan the menu. We have never had a friend not ask to help with the expenses. Of course when we go ashore everyone pays their own way, my wife and I included. It is nice if the friend wants to chip in for diesel or water if we had to provision, but I do not expect it or even think about it. Custom and immigration fees are split. Generally one of the couples comes with me to customs as the wives hang out on the beach or shop for food.
I do always show new guests items that are different on a boat, and ask how good of swimmers they are. Then show where the life preservers and fire extinguishers are. Other than that, I treat my invited friends as invited guests just like my home. I don't expect anyone to do anything other than to have a good time, relax, and help with the rum
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Old 28-04-2012, 07:48   #85
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

I like guests, and want them to enjoy their experience and partake of much that is involved, and in fact feel that i failed if i did not exceed their expectations;but it's a lot more work for me to monitor them and explain why cowboy boots are not the best footwear for putting in that 2nd reef. I also like it when they leave.

Guess who ALWAYS un clogs the head,checks the engine oil or cleans the fish?
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Old 28-04-2012, 08:07   #86
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
zee frenches haz no word for Etiquette.
ROFLMAO
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Old 28-04-2012, 08:08   #87
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

spelling for etiquette is in dictionary. look it up. spell it right.
my problem is not spelling, but disabled hands. wanna fight?i am on that one. i have an attack cat.
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Old 28-04-2012, 08:09   #88
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Good day all-

Have been trolling this site for several years and have recently joined as life has made some decisions for my family and myself that have accelerated our plans to start boat ownership and getting on with the "dream". I have resisted the urge to post anything up to this point because quite frankly my experiences with boat people "politeness and respect" seems a lot different then the attitudes expressed by the more frequent posters on this forum. To those of you who don't fall into this category ( you know who you are) I truly enjoy your insight and experience. For the rest, I have chosen my first post to appear on this thread because it affords me the opportunity to give an opinion on a topic I believe I have the experience and knowledge base to make an intelligent and enlightened comments on since the majority of sailing I have done over the past decade has been at the invite of others.

Being a relative newbie, I not only appreciate the effort and security offered by instruction of do's and don'ts by the skipper and crew of the vessels I am a guest on but expect it. It gives me a level of comfort and sets me at ease in what (for a newbie) can be a daunting (and exhilarating) experience. As a guest I have never been asked for anything. However having been raised and as an adult choose to be a respectful and sharing individual I ALWAYS show up with provisions, alcohol (to be enjoyed at the proper time), offer to pay on shore tabs ( the reason I offer is because most peeps raised like me would rather give then receive and the folks I care to associate with feel the same way) and do my share of the "work" asked of me.

I have never not been asked back aboard so I believe my approach is working so far. As far as some of the opinion that are bantered around here with much attitude and quite frankly rudeness, I wonder are you all truly as miserable, in your life pursuits, that it has irreversibly damaged your karma or just that the interpretation of your inner thoughts to written form is misrepresented in the written form.

Let the bashing begin.
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Old 28-04-2012, 08:11   #89
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If I invite someone to my house they dont pay rent, they dont buy fuel for my stove, they dont pay for electricity. I dont count the soap bars used or ration the beer or soda.

If the shower breajs or the toilet clogs they dont have to fix it or pay to have it fixed.

If we provision a bbq together thats cool. If they invute us for dinner that is cool. I do expect good company and to not be taken advantage of. Some folks dont get to come back.

No different on the boat.
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Old 28-04-2012, 08:12   #90
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re: Rules & Etiquette for Visitors Aboard Your Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hildebrandt View Post
Whew, this type of discussion seems to always get folks all wound up. Lets cut down on the ad hominem arguments and stick to the facts. For as we all know, or should know, such arguments are always the definitive sign of a weak and unsupportable argument.

First and foremost, I do use a modest type, and do not double space, and am rather verbose (this response should prove the veracity of this item), so 8 pages is what it is! I could easily make this into a 30 page pamphlet with the experiences I have had. In fact some of the most fun I have at anchorages around the world is discussing crew issues with other sailors.

To those who have enough "at sea time" on someone elses boat to know how to behave, and therefore believe they do not need to read or even begin to comply with a set of protocols, I would suggest that my experiences lead me to the conclusion that you are exactly the kind of person most likely to get kicked off my boat at the first port. The only person who I ever had to kick off Juno (happened in the Maldives after the passage from Thailand) was a guy who came onboard who touted himself as a world class sailor with heaps of experience, he chose not to read the protocols. Although he told me he had no problems with any of them, he continued to drink on watch, and was disruptive with the crew. He did only the minimum of the daily chores and balked at doing anything extra. When I was having discussions with the agent in the Maldives to make arrangements for clearance, he continued to break into the conversation redirecting the agent to answering his personal questions. This is the short list of his deficiencies, Juno and I are happy to say so long good riddance to this kind of crew, be they guest, visitor, friend or even family member.

I contrast his attitude with the two other persons with substantive sailing experience, one a circumnavigator and the other a veteran of ten years as a charter skipper, they had no problem with the per diem or the protocols. They both said they felt that they did not need the information, but they understood that with a disparate group of folks on board, this was a decent solution to make sure everyone was on the same playing field.

Those who choose to make distinctions between guests, crew, family, visitors, etc, your opinions and characterization of how they should be treated on board are certainly valid. Nevertheless, my protocols are to be applied equally to all the above, I do not single out one set from another. It just makes my life as a skipper easier. I do not wish to be a Capt Bligh type, but some times I do need to speak to those on board. Having the protocols makes the discussion less personal, and in my not so humble opinion it makes things a bit more professional.

For those who have chosen to take cheap shots at the character of those who I have asked to be my dates, I would relish the opportunity for see what happens if you did that face to face with these ladies. And ladies they are, rest assured! But better yet, I would suggest you should start your own thread so we can discuss morals, ethics and cultural differences regarding the mating game as an issue separate from etiquette onboard a cruising sailboat. I offered that tidbit about my personal life only as a matter of clarity on the per diem issue, no more or less. Once you open that thread we can all expend the amount of time and energy venting our feelings that this topic deserves, or not!

Regarding fee structure and the legal issues around crew verses guest, etc; I would suggest that those who make bold statements about what is legal or what is approved or correct, need to enter the field of maritime law! If you could prepare, and successfully defend a given position of this topic that would have universal acceptance, you would be one rich person! At the moment, no one in that field can state definitively what is what on these issues. Not only does it change state to state within the US, there is no definitive policy by the USCG about this matter. And we have not even begun to speak to the matter as it relates to other jurisdictions. But that too is best a topic for another thread, start one up and I will chime in with my experiences.

For those who have asked to see my protocols, I am considering that as a possibility. The downside on that, given the way some respond on these threads, I am not so certain I want to take the time to respond to the arguments.

The simple fact is that Juno is my boat, and how I chose to handle some things will be different than the way you chose to handle them on your boat. If I were to visit your boat, I would appreciate that someone told me how they wished for guest/crew/visitors to behave, that way I would not have to guess about your quirks and peculiarity's! Differences are a good a good thing!

Cheers to all, especially those who made private PM's!

Can't write more this morning, my hand is cramping and I have a tennis match!

Tom
Too long to read Tom...
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