Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

[Schooner Chandlery]

USCG is the entity that cites people for safety issues and does safety inspections aboard boats. If the boats there had inspections by USCG many would be found lacking and cited.

It is common for local goverments to have specific anchoring regulations/requirements and to enforce them. Totally different thing and not what I was talking about. But anyway:

RBRA doesn't enforce anything. When we visited RB for the first time, we notified RBHA of our anchoring and expected to be given information about requirements. Instead we got an earful of essentially...whining...about how things are there. No enforcement.

Originally Posted by newhaul

You must have not actually read the page I linked to to well.
Here is a partial quote Note:
Mariners anchoring in the special anchorage area should consult applicable ordinances of the Richardson Bay Regional Agency and the County of Marin. These ordinances establish requirements on matters including the anchoring of vessels, placement of moorings, and use of anchored and moored vessels within the special anchorage area. Information on these local agency requirements may be obtained from the Richardson Bay Harbor Administrator.
And if you notice it says the Richardson Bay Harbor regional agency and Marin county are responsible for enforcement. Not the USCG.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

USCG is the entity that cites people for safety issues and does safety inspections aboard boats. If the boats there had inspections by USCG many would be found lacking and cited.

It is common for local goverments to have specific anchoring regulations/requirements and to enforce them. Totally different thing and not what I was talking about. But anyway:

RBRA doesn't enforce anything. When we visited RB for the first time, we notified RBHA of our anchoring and expected to be given information about requirements. Instead we got an earful of essentially...whining...about how things are there. No enforcement.

I'm collecting objections people have for the anchorouts in RB. What I'm getting here and from a few other posts is that there might be some safety issues you're concerned with that the CG could cite them for.

The US Power Squadrons, and probably the CG Auxiliary do free boat safety inspections. Maybe you could organize something so that these boats could be inspected and, if out of compliance, be brought into compliance.

So far we have the Key West solution to illegal discharge and the USPS/CGAux solution to unsafe vessels.

We're on a roll here. Any other complaints about the anchorouts?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

We're on a roll here. Any other complaints about the anchorouts?

They smell "funny"

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

They smell "funny"

LOL. This is one of the better complaints for its simplicity and clarity and it isn't that easy to solve because the apparent solution is somewhere in this 80 page PDF where it mentions public showers. But I didn't find it within the first 20 minutes. Great reading though.

http://rbra.ca.gov/Packet5_7_15.pdf

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

They smell "funny"

What do you mean "funny."

(Goodfellas)

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by The Smokester

I agree. I went looking for property up in Grass Valley which is about 120 miles east of SF in the Sierra Nevada foothills. It was January just after one of the large storms we had this winter. I was surprised/shocked to see a lot of homeless wandering the streets.

So, moving a few miles down the road really doesn't seem to be the easy solution.

It's seems easy for those not wanting to deal/witness others plight. Pushing the problem to another location is not the answer. It doesn't solve the problem. Just moves it from some peoples sight.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Been reading a good bit of this. It applies to FL but there are a number of precedents in federal law from other states including CA.

http://www.cityofmarcoisland.com/mod...ocumentid=7465

I haven't been able to figure out what the specific objections are to the anchor outs in RB, although one of them seems to be the discharge of human waste in a no discharge zone.

Here's what FL did about that in Key West.

They wanted to ban permanent liveaboards except it marinas and yacht clubs. It turns out they were worried about illegal discharge. The court said, Regulate the discharge. So now in Key West, when you buy a monthly pass for the dinghy dock you have to have your dinghy inspected and you have to get signed up for a periodic free pumpout. Everybody wins except for people who didn't want them there for other reasons.

So, what are your reasons? Let's solve this.

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

I'm collecting objections people have for the anchorouts in RB. What I'm getting here and from a few other posts is that there might be some safety issues you're concerned with that the CG could cite them for.

The US Power Squadrons, and probably the CG Auxiliary do free boat safety inspections. Maybe you could organize something so that these boats could be inspected and, if out of compliance, be brought into compliance.

So far we have the Key West solution to illegal discharge and the USPS/CGAux solution to unsafe vessels.

We're on a roll here. Any other complaints about the anchorouts?

these are sound solutions to concerns. I'd also like to hear what other concerns can be solved.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Too much free stuff available paid for by hard working taxpayers from all income levels. That's why.

Plus... it's just easier to sit around and complain all day than to go out and work or help someone. Just like some people on this form who prefer to complain rather than help solve some of the problems for which they advocate.

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

these are sound solutions to concerns. I'd also like to hear what other concerns can be solved.

So.... What are you actively doing to help solve the problem?

I asked sailorchic the same question a few pages back, but the only answer returned was that she didn't like being in the company of other people or working more than 12 hours per week, so hands-on problem solving was not possible.

What have you done lately?

[Island Time O25]

Some solutions have to be public based i.e. paid out of some general public fund. No way around it, just like we rely on public funding of defense, LE, fire depts, public schools/hospitals, etc. In this particular instance first step, if not already taken, would be to offer free pump outs from a pump out boat which would operate at certain days/hours and be hailable from any boat. This is what works very well at our mooring field of about 2,000 vessels. The pump out boat is paid for by the CG (EPA?) annual grant and covers 3 or 4 adjacent towns (another 3 or 4 adjacent towns further away have their own both mobile and stationary pump outs). The 1,200 boat mooring field at the harbor next door (a more plush affair with fancier boats) is served by a stationary free pump out which is also available to anyone. They do have a mobile pump out boat but it is perennially "out of service".

The beauty of the free mobile pump out is that it prompts even the laziest cheapest poorest boat owner to hail it as needed and as a result both harbors, having good tidal flow, are very clean, very swimmable and have great fishing. Problem solved.

Awhile back we used to have a floating restaurant in the harbor. Their agreement with the town was to have their own pump out vessel do periodic pump outs (as needed) and discharge 12+ miles offshore (may be even 25+ miles, I forget now). The owner was caught on more than one occasion dumping barely 3 miles out at the mouth of the harbor and was fined severely first time $50,000 then $100,000 then $500,000, eventually going out of business under the thereat of jail time, etc. Now, how many "derelicts" will it take to equal the discharge of a very busy restaurant?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

So.... What are you actively doing to help solve the problem?

I asked sailorchic the same question a few pages back, but the only answer returned was that she didn't like being in the company of other people or working more than 12 hours per week, so hands-on problem solving was not possible.

What have you done lately?

I really worried my butt off last month ( March) actually over did my goal of 15 hours. And did 23 instead. Now the guy expects me to do 24 in April.oh and helped get a friends adult daughter in drug rehab.

[Viking Sailor]

It seem that forum member Delancey has won the lottery and is looking for ways to put his winnings to good use. Maybe if asked nicely by enough of his follow forum members, he might be willing to help solve some of the Richardson Bay's problems. It can't hurt to ask!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Some solutions have to be public based i.e. paid out of some general public fund. No way around it, just like we rely on public funding of defense, LE, fire depts, public schools/hospitals, etc. In this particular instance first step, if not already taken, would be to offer free pump outs from a pump out boat which would operate at certain days/hours and be hailable from any boat. This is what works very well at our mooring field of about 2,000 vessels. The pump out boat is paid for by the CG (EPA?) annual grant and covers 3 or 4 adjacent towns (another 3 or 4 adjacent towns further away have their own both mobile and stationary pump outs). The 1,200 boat mooring field at the harbor next door (a more plush affair with fancier boats) is served by a stationary free pump out which is also available to anyone. They do have a mobile pump out boat but it is perennially "out of service".

The beauty of the free mobile pump out is that it prompts even the laziest cheapest poorest boat owner to hail it as needed and as a result both harbors, having good tidal flow, are very clean, very swimmable and have great fishing. Problem solved.

Awhile back we used to have a floating restaurant in the harbor. Their agreement with the town was to have their own pump out vessel do periodic pump outs (as needed) and discharge 12+ miles offshore (may be even 25+ miles, I forget now). The owner was caught on more than one occasion dumping barely 3 miles out at the mouth of the harbor and was fined severely first time $50,000 then $100,000 then $500,000, eventually going out of business under the thereat of jail time, etc. Now, how many "derelicts" will it take to equal the discharge of a very busy restaurant?

So... your answer to the problem is to offer up more free stuff to be paid for by other hard working people from all income levels? Boaters and non-boaters whether they like it or not... tax them more so that the freeloaders can have even more free stuff.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

So... your answer to the problem is to offer up more free stuff to be paid for by other hard working people from all income levels? Boaters and non-boaters whether they like it or not... tax them more so that the freeloaders can have even more free stuff.

Island Time has only mentioned pumpouts. Usually they're offered for "free" in the US, paid for by who knows what? Vessel registrations? Federal grants?

In the case of Key West it cost $6.50/day to use the dinghy dock. I remember roughly $27/week and $87/month. With that you get "free" pumpout. (In this case "free" means you're paying the dinghy dockage rate whether you get the pumpout or not.)

Marathon has a similar setup although with a much higher dinghy dock rate, $22/day, $85/week, $225/month. With that you get showers, weekly pumpout, and a parking space for a car. The rate for a mooring is $22/day, $115/week, and $324/month. Same additional benefits as above dinghy dock.

Here's a link to the pricing:

Pricing | City of Marathon Official Website

Another important point on the subject of pumpouts is that a lot of the infrastructure, for better or worse, is already in place; the pumps are in at the docks and the pumpout boats are already up and running. Now it's a matter of utilizing the investment.

You're concern for the RB liveaboards, Ken, seems to be that they may be getting free stuff from taxpayers who have to work for it. They may be getting free stuff but specific to being an anchor out, there are two things they could be getting for free, dinghy dockage and pumpout. Both issues, dinghy dock and pumpout, have a pretty effective example of a solution in KW and Marathon.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

. . I disagree with the current working requirements of working 10-12 hours a day and I WILL NOT do that. . .

Originally Posted by Kenomac

. . I asked sailorchic the same question a few pages back, but the only answer returned was that she didn't like being in the company of other people or working more than 12 hours per week, . . .

Ken

You misquoted sailorchic34.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

So... your answer to the problem is to offer up more free stuff to be paid for by other hard working people from all income levels? Boaters and non-boaters whether they like it or not... tax them more so that the freeloaders can have even more free stuff.

where Oh where is that pointed stick. Ken you imply that everyone anchored in Richardson bay is a freeloader is grossly mistaken. Many are retired living in SS or a small pension. Many work ashore. I'm sure there is a freeloader in there somewhere.

There are many reasons that folk live there. Some use to live aboard in marina's. But marinas around here some years back started increasing the minimum liveaboard size from 25 to 30 feet to 35 to 40 feet. So where do they go.

Others own a wood boat and were kicked out of the marina for that.

Other folks experience age discrimination as they age. For the software engineer they are rightsized when they hit 40-45 years of age. For me it was right before I hit 55 where the medical insurance cost would have doubled for my employer. That is how it works at least in the bay area.

For the lower income folks who can't afford a $3500 month apartment payment (500 sf 1br/1bath) there are few options. OK There are NO options.

So lets say we kick them all off the boats and crush to boats. Where do they live. Maybe in tents on sidewalks. Lots of that out here also. But it's more NIMBY.

The freeloaders as you call them cost the taxpayer less when they are on the boat. So why are you advocating moving them ashore where the costs to house them will be far higher (if there was housing for them, which there isn't). They are mostly self supporting, and using no public housing funds.

BTW Ken. While I would not mind at all a 12 hour work week that rarely happens. But you'll be glad to know I use to work 12-14 hour days or longer, 5 and 6 days a week for a while there. Yes I got tired if that real quick.

So much more enjoyable working 20 hours a week now and living the freeloader lifestyle. Might want to try it Ken. You sound a little uptight.

Lucky me I start collecting SS next year and then I will be a freeloader. Well except for the 40+ years I paid in to ss.