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Old 14-11-2015, 18:31   #91
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

"Wrong" you and I are talking apples and oranges when it comes to governments. I was referring to transparency and the federal government.

You're referring to RBRA which appears to be a local (not even state?) authority Those are very different things. Every little banana republic of a muni-government has their own way of doing things and typically (though not always) the more "local" the government entity, the less fair, objective, transparent, or anything else it will be. Smaller and smaller until it is a group of cronies laying out how things are going to run in THEIR community. Maybe the RBRA has a state member (similar to the BCDC) I dunno. I know nothing about the RBRA itself.

Yes, our home port is Washington, DC. We lived there for 13 years. Great city (DC) but terrible metro area once you get outside of the city--too much traffic and sprawl.

For 6 years I worked for DOT and part of what I did was work on simplifying and improving existing safety-related regulations and occasional new ones in a role that involved getting stakeholders to participate in a consensus-based rulemaking process, get them to agree, then get it written up and published as a NPRM before someone got a wild hair and changed their minds. The federal process also involves economic analyses of the impact of the proposed changes. Then, have the public meetings for comment and ultimately (this later part takes years or decades) get the final thing by OMB and into the CFR so it takes effect.

The analog in Richardson Bay would be getting boaters, marina owners, the USCG, land-owners, local, regional, state gov't stakeholders all in a room to hash out something that would work. What little I know of the positional stances that people have taken in Richardson Bay, it is unlikely that a consensus would ever be achieved though.
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Old 15-11-2015, 16:22   #92
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
"Wrong" you and I are talking apples and oranges when it comes to governments. I was referring to transparency and the federal government.

You're referring to RBRA which appears to be a local (not even state?) authority Those are very different things. Every little banana republic of a muni-government has their own way of doing things and typically (though not always) the more "local" the government entity, the less fair, objective, transparent, or anything else it will be. Smaller and smaller until it is a group of cronies laying out how things are going to run in THEIR community. Maybe the RBRA has a state member (similar to the BCDC) I dunno. I know nothing about the RBRA itself.

Yes, our home port is Washington, DC. We lived there for 13 years. Great city (DC) but terrible metro area once you get outside of the city--too much traffic and sprawl.

For 6 years I worked for DOT and part of what I did was work on simplifying and improving existing safety-related regulations and occasional new ones in a role that involved getting stakeholders to participate in a consensus-based rulemaking process, get them to agree, then get it written up and published as a NPRM before someone got a wild hair and changed their minds. The federal process also involves economic analyses of the impact of the proposed changes. Then, have the public meetings for comment and ultimately (this later part takes years or decades) get the final thing by OMB and into the CFR so it takes effect.

The analog in Richardson Bay would be getting boaters, marina owners, the USCG, land-owners, local, regional, state gov't stakeholders all in a room to hash out something that would work. What little I know of the positional stances that people have taken in Richardson Bay, it is unlikely that a consensus would ever be achieved though.
Thank you for your posts. They are very informative and fact-based.
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Old 02-12-2015, 13:29   #93
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

So what is the latest and greatest??????
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Old 02-12-2015, 14:09   #94
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

I lived in the Marin area about 40 years ago and the collection of boats in RB was eclectic, interesting and kinda fun to see. That is until some property owners in Tiburon decided that they looked 'trashy' and began their campaign to rid their view of anything afloat not tied to a dock. These rich pricks want to see nothing but mud flats and cat tails when they look out their windows. Bunch of elite jerks, IMO... Phil
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Old 04-12-2015, 23:18   #95
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

Of course it couldn't have anything to do with several of these "eclectic" boats breaking free during the winter storms every year, washing up on the shores of Tiburon only to be abandoned by the owners and left for the local municipalities to deal with.

I'm not against anchoring in Richardson Bay, but let's face it, there are a lot of POS vessels out there that are accidents waiting to happen. As much as I hate government intervention, meeting basic requirements could go a long way.

There is also the issue of some of the violent anchor outs committing crime. Did you know there was a murder over by the tennis courts on Marinship just a couple weeks ago that involved a couple anchor outs? They're not all a bunch a easy living sailors out there.


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Old 06-12-2015, 13:32   #96
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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So what is the latest and greatest??????
The RBRA presenters tried to prevent me from distributing my handouts as folks arrived. Said I should wait until midway through the presentation. I said, "can't hear you" and proceeded to give them out. A City Council member started to verbally threaten me but thought the better of it. Ben Berto at one point in his presentation said the "anchorage is illegal"... Knowing better, when I had the opportunity to inquire later on I asked him how? He sort of mumbled something about bay fill... I then asked, well if a boat east of the channel is considered 'bay fill' if not moved after 30 days, why aren't boats on moorings west of the channel for months on end not considered 'bay fill'? He crawled into a crack stating he wasn't familiar with the law. This should give you a sense of how things went for the RBRA at the Spinnaker event. Their presentation was simply a mini retread of the one held at the Bay Model Workshop. Same Powerpoint and all, but the 'experts' weren't there this time. Opponents of the RBRA idea of a mooring field came away feeling like they'd carried the day. There was no questionaire asking residents to say yay or nay. The event closed after a Sausalito Councilman came to the front saying there were four Council members there who had a pretty good idea of what the people want...

Haven't seen a meeting agenda item related to Sausalito's part of the fund necessary to finance the mooring field yet.
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Old 06-12-2015, 15:44   #97
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

The Councilman who started to threaten me for continuing to distribute my handouts is Herb Weiner, Sausalito's board member on the RBRA. Sausalito has a new Mayor now, Jill Hoffman. Is any of this fallout due to the Richardson Bay row?

There were some good commments made by several of Sausalito's members of the boating community, with only one of the usual whackos yelling obscenities at the RBRA folks...

I had 100 'packets' of handouts. The turnout was around 170 people.
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Old 06-12-2015, 16:26   #98
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads

I hope that they vote to regulate the hell out of the place. And put in lots of regulated mooring balls that carry heafty use fees ... sans anchorages if it eliminates the garbage dump of derelict boats. Fingers x'd that this is what happens to one of the most naturally beautiful places on the Bay.
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Old 06-12-2015, 21:06   #99
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

res ipsa loquitur...
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Old 06-12-2015, 22:31   #100
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

It's been 5 years since I've sailed into and around Richardson Bay. Before I went there had heard all the stories of anchored junk and derelict live aboards. I was surprized how few actually junk boats were anchored out. Granted, many of them were overloaded with gear on deck but at least looked capable of being able to get under way given a bit of time. There were some total junkers but not many. One wooden boat had a couple of planks missing from the gunwhale down. It was the summer though so maybe they needed more ventilation. If the 5 boats pictured above were the worst of the lot, doesn't seem to mean that the Bay is overloaded with junk. That Ingrid seems to have more money in fenders than I've got in my boat.

The problem with prohibiting anchoring and establishing a mooring field is it's just another example of our continuouis loss of freedom and intitiative. On land, the powers that be have made it nearly impossible for anyone to start a business without the ability to survive for a year or more before you get approval and then only after tons of harassment and expense from various bureaucracies. Let the camel get its nose into the tent and it will only be a matter of time before the whole animal is inside creating an ever increasing number of restrictions and regulations till they've driven all the anchored boats out. Won't matter whether they were cruisers passing through like I was, boats that were liveaboards but not derelicts or the outright derelicts. The cost of maintaining the Harbor Police and bureaucracy to create and enforce all the regulations and harass innocent boaters will make the cost of removing the occasional derelict seem like a drop in the bucket.

I've been boarded enough by the Coast Guard to know they have the ability make life interesting for innocent sailors. Would seem like they could discourage the worst of the boats if they'd just take their jobs seriously in the Bay.
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Old 06-12-2015, 23:21   #101
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

RB has changed a lot in the last few years. It was a non-issue until recently - as you've read the #'s have swelled drastically, and a large percentage of the boats are derelict and certainly do not appear to be navigable . Many are either rafted up or anchored so close together and over the shoals that they often end up against each other (eg shoal draft boat swings with the tide, deep draft sits on mud and does not). In one area in particular they impede safe navigation in and out of marinas at night, and on top of that most are not lit. Even with the benign weather systems that have passed through, already a number have broken loose and ended up on the rocks, sunk, or in the shipping channel. There have been two sizable diesel spills in the past 6 weeks as a result of sinking boats. Waterfront crime is now a issue. I've experienced it personally as have a number of my clients - in the past I left my boat open as did my neighbors, but not anymore. We've gone from a harbor for old salts tired of being on the move or cruisers who don't wish to venture outside the Bay, to an entirely different sort of " boater ".

RB falls under the public trust, which stipulates public recreational use - not private permanent residence - it's just not adhered to. Get rid of the worst 25%, and things would be OK again. I fear that continued disregard for what is certainly a growing problem will simply lead to the end of it for everyone. The various agencies/jurisdictions have already proven their inability to sort it out - it will come via the old fashioned American route - a lawsuit. Eventually one of these boats will break loose and pinball it's way through a marina and do real damage to some nice boats, owned by people who are 1) pissed off enough that the problem has been allowed to go unchecked and 2) with enough money to see it through the courts.

Things may get interesting this winter, as it has been a few years since we've experienced a strong SE'R, and as we've seen these guys either choose not to move to protected anchorages or are incapable of doing so.
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Old 06-12-2015, 23:29   #102
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

Let's not forget that at least one person has lost his life, trying to wrangle an adrift derelict POS boat in Richardson Bay during a winter storm.
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Old 06-12-2015, 23:36   #103
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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I've been boarded enough by the Coast Guard to know they have the ability make life interesting for innocent sailors. Would seem like they could discourage the worst of the boats if they'd just take their jobs seriously in the Bay.
I suspect the coast guards budget has been cut. The last two years, I seen less of them and more local sheriff or fish and game. I use to see the coast guard running around lots more in the bay and delta 4-5 years ago. They are still out there, just not as much as they once were. Or so it seems.

Agree that most of the anchored boats in Richardson bay are not that bad, with oh 80+ percent at least moveable, or about the same as the typical marina. There are some rather trashie boats, sure. But it's not as bad as many say.
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Old 06-12-2015, 23:54   #104
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

I still see the CG operating often in RB - sometimes a few times a day, and just last week towing two of the derelict break away's to the crusher. I don't know if budget is an issue but I don't see them out any less, and I'm typically on the Bay 5 or 6 days/week year round.

Good point re many boats in marinas being in less than ideal condition and incapable of moving. However, there's a big difference - they are already in a reasonably protected harbor and don't pose a " break away " risk like those anchored-out do. In other words, they don't need to be operable.
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Old 06-12-2015, 23:56   #105
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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Eventually one of these boats will break loose and pinball it's way through a marina and do real damage to some nice boats, owned by people who are 1) pissed off enough that the problem has been allowed to go unchecked and 2) with enough money to see it through the courts.
It would be pretty hard for the boats to break loose toward the marinas as most storms are nw or sw, which push boats away from the marina's. As to the courts, The words in forma pauperis come to mind. Even with a judgement, collecting on someone without assets would be at best a bit tricky.

Myself, I'm just thankful I'm not stuck in Richardson Bay in winter. That is a tough hard life.
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