Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Caddy Shack

3) I work on the water and the numerous unlit boats west of the channel are not fun to weave through at 2 am.

Certainly I agree with you that you are weird. But then, so I am.

Glad to see you're both weird, shouldn't be too hard to communicate then.

Honest Question: How/why do you weave through the boats WEST of the channel? They are OUT of the channel. Out of the way. Could you explain why you're weaving through them? Maybe it's the 2 a.m. thing?

[Viking Sailor]

Originally Posted by Caddy Shack

Sure, but you still haven't clarified how where one lives is relevant to the discussion? You seem to be implying that your opinion trumps those of people living in houses.

I liveaboard, and just like my dock neighbours, my friends living ashore all share the same opinion. The worst 10% need to go, and have subsequently cocked it up for all the rest.

Dear C.S,

I humbly suggest you consider enjoying the 1936 film "My Man Godfrey".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhvSoc0hXrY

Just perhaps it is you, your dock neighbours, and your friends living ashore that have cocked it up for the worst 10%.

Sincerely,

Paul
s/v Feeling Good
San Francisco

[markpierce]

There is no "navigating" west of the channel. The area is small mostly filled with marina berths, a few moorings, and few anchored boats. And in some areas, floating homes (small barges) tied up neat.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by markpierce

There is no "navigating" west of the channel. The area is small mostly filled with marina berths, a few moorings, and few anchored boats. And in some areas, floating homes (small barges) tied up neat.

He's probably talking over around schoonmaker marina where there is a small channel and past the corps bay model to over by spalding. But he must have seen the boats anchored there in the daytime and its a pretty wide fairway.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

He's probably talking over around schoonmaker marina where there is a small channel and past the corps bay model to over by spalding. But he must have seen the boats anchored there in the daytime and its a pretty wide fairway.

That's up for debate.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by markpierce

That's up for debate.

Got to go a bit past #6 channel mark to get to the west side indent. Sort of shows to the left of your course line where the blobs are just past your second ring and coast cants to the west. Boats go in there all the time.

[Caddy Shack]

Have a better look next time you come through.

Bridgeway Marina between the Cruising Club and the public boat ramp beside Salito's. A number of anchor-outs and abandoned boats there, sometimes so close to the marina fairways that CG assistance was required for relocation. Of 70 odd boats in the marina only a couple of us came and went (primarily liveaboards) so it is not a priority for anyone. I left the marina and found a better solution. Severe shoaling complicates things there because there is only one path that works on low tide, and often, the very narrow " deeper " route has a boat anchored in it.

Other than this spot (which also includes the path to/fro the public boat ramp), I agree that moored or anchored boats do not present a " navigation " problem in RB.

Agreed no anchor light is required by law, but in my opinion that choice is not very prudent.

[Vonfossen]

Hey guys, long time lurker here. I was born and raised in Marinwood, I've spent many years commuting into the city for school. I'm currently living in Davis but my wife and I need to move back to SF starting in June for a new job I got in the city (the job is telecommute friendly up to a few times a week).

Rent has skyrocketed in the years that I've been gone, though. My immediate options for rent feasibility are: Live with my parents in Marinwood (leaving my wife in Davis, visiting her every weekend) or move into SF and live month to month/hand to mouth with my wife.

If I save up and put a down payment on a 3-4 cabin cruiser, even after loan, insurance, and maintenance I'll save at least 2k a month when compared to a similar space in SF where I'll be working. Between 1 and 3 years from now my wife and I are considering getting a 50+ foot sailing yacht to live on in Richardson bay and I have some questions about the state of this anchorage:

1] If your boat is in good condition, do you see 'living on the line' viable in 10 years in Richardson bay? Meaning, in your opinion, do you think that people will still be permitted to live like this within 10 years as long as their boat isn't derelict?

2] Is a daily dinghy commute feasible? I can get a Sausalito marina to lease me a dinghy slip so I have a place to park it, right? I already have golden gate transit well figured out due to being a local.

3] Are there other anchorages that work? Maybe the Belvedere side? Like I said, I plan on getting a pretty nice looking boat - do you think that they'll care?

So far from what I've figured out about all this is that this is a giant legal grey area where nobody can really enforce anything.

Also, keep in mind that I'm not buying a boat solely because we need a cheap place to live. My goal is that by buying a boat, I'll save up enough by not having to pay rent that I can 'retire' early and cruise the world in it with my wife and kids.

In case anybody is curious, this is pretty much the type of boat that I'm considering: 1985 Bruce Roberts Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Thanks for the great posts, everybody. They've been very informative.

[Schooner Chandlery]

Vonfossen-- welcome aboard, if you're going to be working full time at almost any job that pays more than minimum wage, or even minimum wage, you can just get a liveaboard slip at a Bay Area marina. Depending on where the job actually is, you can have a decent commute to it.

The increased efficiency of dock electricity, marina showers, etc when working full time are worth the cost, in the Bay area, IMO. There are other places where marinas and liveaboard slips aren't so cheap and then, yeah, being at anchor or mooring makes more sense (e.g. SoCal is more costly in terms of marinas). Though we've spent most of the past 5 years at anchor as we travel, we're in a Bay area marina right now--because of working full time and it just being so much more cost-efficient for us to be in a marina. In our case, my husband is on a well-paying contract gig where he can work as many hours as he'd like, therefore, we moved to a marina that is very close to the workplace so the commute is very short via bicycle. Though we're spending a little over $1000/mo on rent/utilities and all, because of the extra hours he can work--rather than deal with logistics of rowing, walking to car, dealing with longer traffic, etc--he's actually pulling in about $2000/mo more than he would be if at anchor right now. So, net ahead $1000/mo.

If you have the boat in a marina you may have enough ability to keep things up easily so that you'll be able to spend your spare time sailing and using the boat rather than just using it for housing and spending your spare time in the logistics to support the at-anchor lifestyle. Boats are primarily intended as...boats...not housing, they are purpose-built for boating. If you're not boating, you may find yourself less happy with the situation AND you may be displacing another boater who could more happily use that slip, that spot in the anchorage, or that mooring for his/her boating.

This is your first post, so I imagine you'll be all over the place with what you may want and what you will eventually get. Most people who are thinking about living aboard want something way bigger than is needed, for example.

[Caddy Shack]

Your plan is solid (I know because I've been living it for the last seven years), but I agree with SC that you should forget about doing it on the hook (for the same reasons cited). It is possible to get a legitimate liveaboard slip in the Bay (even in Sausalito) - you just need the right approach and of course it helps to know the scene and the players involved. In addition to the concerns SC cited, personally I would not be comfortable leaving a nice boat unattended in RB. Theft would be a concern year round, and while possible, it would not be very comfortable. The anchorage is windy in the summer (especially where you'd need to be in a boat drawing almost 8'), and in the winter it's exposed to winter weather. To be prudent you'd need to relocate prior to bad weather, or at minimum, be on board. Not practical if you're at work.

Nice looking boat....I have experience with fiberglass, wood and steel, and I like the latter the best. At least from a security and " coolness " factor anyway....maintenance expense not so much...though each boat should be analyzed on an individual basis on account of so many variables. Good luck!

[mycal]

Originally Posted by Caddy Shack

60+ boats is not a small portion - in point of fact, it's about 25% of the total in the bay.

Where did you get these numbers from?

[Caddy Shack]

See prior post containing letter from city of Sausalito and cited figures (which come from SPD on-water survey). It's a bit dated but pretty accurate. As of today there are just under 70 boats on the Sausalito side of the channel.

[Vonfossen]

Thanks for the great input, Schooner and Caddy.

I'll drop the idea of living long term on the hook and look into the possibility of Marinas in SF. But at this rate I'll probably hold off on boat buying until I'm actually ready to sail the thing regularly (I'm really only interested in sailing internationally at this moment), as Schooner suggested. It's not worth having to maintain a boat if it just sits in one place all the time. If your only memories of your boat are those of maintenance, I'm sure it doesn't make for a very good relationship and SF marinas are contested enough as it is without me.

[Caddy Shack]

Originally Posted by Vonfossen

Thanks for the great input, Schooner and Caddy.

I'll drop the idea of living long term on the hook and look into the possibility of Marinas in SF. But at this rate I'll probably hold off on boat buying until I'm actually ready to sail the thing regularly (I'm really only interested in sailing internationally at this moment), as Schooner suggested. It's not worth having to maintain a boat if it just sits in one place all the time. If your only memories of your boat are those of maintenance, I'm sure it doesn't make for a very good relationship and SF marinas are contested enough as it is without me.

Well, perhaps you've worn it out already, but there's plenty of great sailing and there are numerous anchorages in the Bay/Delta and along the coast. Aside from enjoying them, you can get your boat and skills dialed in before going further. You can also do a run to Mx and back over a winter to really get into the swing of it. We do a ton of sailing " locally " while living aboard here. And keep in mind you need months, not weeks, before you'll even have the time to expand your horizon beyond what I've mentioned. And experiencing all of the possible conditions throughout the seasons outside of the GG will prepare you for just about anything you may experience elsewhere long-term. Given you have doubts already, might be best to start with a smaller, simpler boat and a significantly reduced commitment to find out if its right for you, rather than just an idea.

[Wrong]

It's time for anyone who wants a sane, well organized Richardson Bay divided into anchorage and non-anchorage (mooring) zones to act. Accomplishing this goal will naturally address the problem related to boats brought into the Bay by a handful of profiteers who care less about the adverse effect they have on others. It will eliminate "moorings for rent", or "boats and moorings for rent", the "setting" of unauthorized moorings for sale or rent, and introduce standards that must be met in order to use either zone...

A lawsuit filed against the Richardson Bay Regional Agency was until recently held up after the defense attorney filed a demurrer and strike, both defeated in court following the filing by the Petitioner, en pro, of an answer called an "opposition".

All things remaining the same, it appears the Petitioner may be poised to prevail in the not to distant future by obtaining a court order that the RBRA enforce Ordinance 87-1, Section 5, Permits, Anchoring and Mooring. Consequently, the RBRA will be required to remove the unauthorized moorings... Still to be accomplished. Either pressure the RBRA sufficiently to cause the agency to designate and mark anchorage and non-anchorage areas, or after trying but failing to succeed with pressure, file a lawsuit seeking an order the agency comply. Designating and marking anchorage and non-anchorage zones is not a discretionary responsibility, yet, since its inception in 1984 the agency has never complied with the Richardson Bay Regional Area Plan and Shared Powers Agreement that require designating and marking the zones. Cruisers who hope to anchor conveniently and safely in Richardson Bay, presently a near impossibile feat, must speak up.

There will no doubt be significant pushback, especially by those who will lose sources of income derived from the installation, sale and rental of unauthorized moorings and sale or rental of boats. They will be working hard to influence how others in the anchorage will respond, and the response they encourage may be "war".

So, I encourage everyone who wants the kind of change this lawsuit can bring to Richardson Bay to attend RBRA meetings and speak out. Demand a speedy response by the RBRA to the court order. Attend meetings of the group called "Mariners of Richardson Bay" in order to counter its objective of maintaining the "status quo". I can't provide email addresses that will enable you to communicate your viewpoints with MRB members, but it won't take much asking around to discover what they are.

Send me a PM if you need more information.