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Old 24-02-2016, 10:06   #391
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

At 2 dollars per gallon, it should move a sailboat at least 50 miles, maybe 100 if run efficiently.
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Old 24-02-2016, 10:26   #392
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

Apparently, some poor folk living on sailboats don't know how to sail.
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Old 24-02-2016, 10:31   #393
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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Apparently, some poor folk living on boats don't know how to sail.
Many don't live on sailboats
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Old 24-02-2016, 10:34   #394
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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At 2 dollars per gallon, it should move a sailboat at least 50 miles, maybe 100 if run efficiently.
Agreed but that's not my point my point was that the local law tends to leave boats that are seen moving a reasonable distance (5 or so miles) alone
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Old 24-02-2016, 12:43   #395
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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$20 bucks worth of fuel will move just about any boat at least 5 nm and moving a vessel under its own power ( at least here in Washington ) goes a long way towards keeping johnny law off your back.
That's what I do. Within 5 NM of RB you have paridise cove and a tiny spot over by richmond, plus the back side of angel island which has a foul bottom. Paridise cove on the back side of turburon is a lovely anchorage, except for the 4 to 6 fast ferrys an hour that pass it at 28 knots with delightful beam wakes. Weekends are better unless there is a game on.


Personally, RB is too busy for my taste, but then I'm antisocial or rather a flaming introvert. Alas, The fine folks anchored in RB enjoy some of the the only real dinghy docks in the bay area. People do land elsewhere, but sometimes the dinghy or kayak goes missing.

7nm's away there is china camp and clipper cove. There are about 6 anchor outs in china camp now and about the same at clipper cove. Clipper cove has a time limit, so those folks do move a bit.

In San Pablo bay an area 12by14 miles in area, only china camp offers a protected anchorage. The rest of it is much too shallow and too exposed to winds to anchor.

There are places in the south bay to anchor over course. But only for a few boats. Same goes for the oakland channel. RB is really one of the few places that can handle more then 20 boats anchored.
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Old 24-02-2016, 13:19   #396
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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The reason the fine folks in RB don't leave is they have no money to leave. I know this too as I have very little money for fuel. $20-$30 will not get a bus ticket very far. With house costs, it's not just rent. There is electric, water, trash at the very least. So that Cheap $200 place back east will turn into a $400 place.

The anchor outs for the most part don't have that.. I could not afford a $400 bill for rent and utilities. Let alone a bus ticket across country.

I still say having lived aboard for 10 years now, that a small boat is far cheaper then even an apartment elsewhere.
I very much understand and appreciate what you are saying.

However I believe that the vast majority of people who own boats do so out of a love for sailing-boating-cruising lifestyle and the beauty of the oceans and waterways that can be accessed. Not because they are in dire financial straights and in need viable sub-standard housing.

That said, the real issue with those who are using places like Richardson Bay in which to homestead/squat is that they are making it difficult for those who are actually active sailors or cruising. Water-front communities from coast to coast have become more and more unwelcoming of boats that anchor based upon a fear that their communities will become havens for people who, in some cases, contribute nothing at all and tax the resources and infrastructure while abusing the environment around them.

I do not believe that anyone has a problem with actual sailors who just happen to have a limited income such as yourself. I certainly do not.
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Old 24-02-2016, 16:07   #397
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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I very much understand and appreciate what you are saying.

However I believe that the vast majority of people who own boats do so out of a love for sailing-boating-cruising lifestyle and the beauty of the oceans and waterways that can be accessed. Not because they are in dire financial straights and in need viable sub-standard housing.

That said, the real issue with those who are using places like Richardson Bay in which to homestead/squat is that they are making it difficult for those who are actually active sailors or cruising. Water-front communities from coast to coast have become more and more unwelcoming of boats that anchor based upon a fear that their communities will become havens for people who, in some cases, contribute nothing at all andtax the resources and infrastructurewhile abusing the environment around them.

I do not believe that anyone has a problem with actual sailors who just happen to have a limited income such as yourself. I certainly do not.

I agree that it would be a delight if there was actual affordable housing available for the lowest class. The sad truth is is just does not exist least not anywhere near enough. Really living on an old boat in RB is not an easy lifestyle. It's hard, cold and wet in winter. But it beats living in a tent or a cardboard box by at least 1000%.

I really don't think 150 anchor-outs are going to tax resources or infrastructure at all. That's not really a valid reason. As to contributions, they do pay sales tax for the food, etc they buy locally, just like a cruiser would.

Are they an eyesore. Lots are. But many are seaworthy enough.

Do they inconvenience other boaters. Not that I've seen. Most boats in Sausalito are day sailors or racers. I have not seen a cruiser turned away from a lack of anchor space either. But then I'm rarely there. Tons of space there. I've never had a problem finding a spot to drop the hook. No it's not going to be next to the dinghy dock, but much of the bay is too shallow for the typical cruiser anyway.

As to contributions, well many are retired, or disabled. Those not retired or disabled generally have jobs ashore, so those do contribute.

No not that much. But then, I've paid very little in taxes these last 6 years. From the perspective of the typical home owner, I pay nothing. Well its far less then $1000 a year total. But then I live in 150 SF and pay the same percentage in property tax as the rich folk on the hills. I just have the better view...
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Old 24-02-2016, 18:25   #398
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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Gee I don't pay utilities and have not for 10 years now, so the utility folks would not want to help me reduce utility costs. I don't have a yard, so no help there either.

As to haul out yards in the Delta. Sorry, I've not hauled out since 2009. I find that even the delta haul out locations are still to spendy. I'm have to wait 2 more years when the SS checks start arriving before hauling. Such is life.

I do work from my boat, though I don't have a permit for that either. I don't have a physical address or a car, so hard to file the papers. I work in 5 different counties over the year, it's sort of hard to file for a business license, when your mobile. But then only a small portion of the business is in state. Most of my clients are elsewhere.

Funny thing is, I don't make enough to even pay California taxes or Fed taxes other then SS. The problems I have.....

By the way, I don't claim a home business deduction as I don't have a separate area on the boat to conduct business. Even if I could, the ~5 SF, I use for business does not amount to a handful of beans. I can't deduct utilities, as I have none. I suspect Rich is in the same boat.... pun intended.

On the plus side, I enjoy life far more then when I was making $90k a year and stressed out. Sometimes, Simple is good.

SC34 glad you are enjoying life in the Delta. I really enjoy it also. I am moored near Rio Vista. Before Rich on 3day went on a political rant about government handouts, I was saying that the help that is given to low income homeowners on the dirt could be an idea that could be applied to the low income cruisers in RB. You say many are veterans, others on pensions. I can see offering them a hand just as we do to the less fortunate in our cities and towns. Usually here in Sacramento there is a big effort a couple of times a year for charitable groups to fix up and improve many of the homes of low income people. It wouldn't fix the whole problem in RB, but if the land dwellers were a little charitable and helped the cruisers who can't afford it fix up their boats instead of fighting them, then there would be a better view for the land dwellers and maybe the whole situation would improve. If something like that ever happened, I am sure the land dwellers and the cruisers would find that the others weren't so bad. The bay would look better and if a live aboard wanted to move with his/her fixed up boat they would be able to. Just offering a different approach other than cops and courts and fights.
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Old 24-02-2016, 18:29   #399
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

Generally, there is no sales tax on food in California. In fact there are no sales tax on unprepared food as one would buy from a grocery store or farmers' market, housing rent, home purchase, doctor and dentist bills, and such. There are sales taxes on booze, toothpaste, restaurant purchases, televisions, and such. Actually, a poor person need pay little sales tax (t)here. (Quality clothing can be purchased for nearly nothing from Goodwill and similar outlets, often unused)
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Old 24-02-2016, 18:38   #400
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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Generally, there is no sales tax on food in California. In fact there are no sales tax on unprepared food as one would buy from a grocery store or farmers' market, housing rent, home purchase, doctor and dentist bills, and such. There are sales taxes on booze, toothpaste, restaurant purchases, televisions, and such. Actually, a poor person need pay little sales tax (t)here. (Quality clothing can be purchased for nearly nothing from Goodwill and similar outlets, often unused)
I do shop at the better goodwills, and have for years. Though prices are rising. Alas farmers markets are a bit chichi now a days.

Gee Mark, I pay many dollars a year in sales tax Oh sure not that much, but every penny counts.

I don't do booze at all, so no taxes there. Though I'm probably the exception there.
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Old 24-02-2016, 18:45   #401
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

Sailorchic, every able-bodied person needs to contribute to the "common good." Can't imagine the sales tax you pay is significant as in hundreds of dollars a year. Not that every single penny doesn't count, but there is always the pressure to raise taxes from others (what's another tenth percent increase).
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Old 24-02-2016, 18:55   #402
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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Sailorchic, every able-bodied person needs to contribute to the "common good." Can't imagine the sales tax you pay is significant as in hundreds of dollars a year. Not that every single penny doesn't count, but there is always the pressure to raise taxes from others (what's another tenth percent increase).
Gee Mark, I paid over $1000 in taxes last year (mainly SS and property) sales tax was low, but I do have an expensive cat, The furry kind. I don't purchase much or earn much, so I don't pay as much. It's how the system is set up.

Ablebody is defined as someone 18 to 55 years of age. I am far past that. However I paid well over $30k a year in taxes for quite a number of years. I'm so done with that. Of course I don't own a home or car, so really my impact to society is rather low.
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Old 24-02-2016, 21:09   #403
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

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Sailorchic, every able-bodied person needs to contribute to the "common good." Can't imagine the sales tax you pay is significant as in hundreds of dollars a year. Not that every single penny doesn't count, but there is always the pressure to raise taxes from others (what's another tenth percent increase).
Mark I'm sure you don't mean it the way it sounds . It sounds like a full out assault on sc for her chosen lifestyle. Now I am 49 and according to your statement . I should be working for the common good. I did my part and to ensure you can voice your opinions now I am unable to work because of it.
So does that make me a burdon on everyone ? I feel that your statements imply just that. I don't pay any taxes except sales tax on a few items each month and none on food.
SC you are not alone I don't imbibe either nor does my dad. We are both liveaboards just a lil bit north of you .
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Old 24-02-2016, 22:04   #404
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

Newhaul, it was not an assault. Just saying poor people don't pay much sales tax for essentials because it doesn't apply to food (also provided free to the poor), medical care (ditto), housing (often subsidized, leastwise dirt bound), etc..
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Old 24-02-2016, 22:29   #405
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Re: Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

I can relate to ravinracins opinion.
I've been saying for years that marinas could up the 10% rule and RB crowd could stay (the non derelict) with a govt subsidized mobile pumpout, like a baygreen (but the smaller guys too) to keep the BCDC happy. If the mobile pumpout could provide water refill too, that would be amazing. Create an Anchor Out Permit to cover some of the costs, nothing huge, but the person is paying something at least. Sliding scale would be great, I have friends who l/a banking cash, why not up their fee if they wanna acnhor out to pay for dinghy docks?

Verify that trash or rotting objects are not going into the bay (pumpout person could sort of patrol this). Limit the permit so that there is plenty of space for non liveaboard boats to anchor out. Also, you have to pass a test of basic boat knowledge (from safe boating to leave no trace water dwelling).



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