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Old 01-10-2016, 13:22   #46
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Not only is that impossible, it would be impossible for you to measure it.

Before that could happen, the dock pedestal breaker would have tripped, your boat's main breaker would have tripped and your shorepower cord would have acted as a fuse and melted.

There's no way to "put current into a boat". A boat "draws" current from the supply.
I asked about this as well and Defeverboat correct the original post to say 185V.
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Old 02-10-2016, 07:54   #47
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

Hello,here's my 2 cents..I'm a live aboard with a big power draw..tvs computers stereos and such.was going through 2 plugs every six months or so.burnt and melted they were..found the smart plug system and gave it a try..best investment and peace of mind..its been 8 yrs and the plug and contacts are just as clean and new as the day I installed it..corrosion makes resistance which makes heat.you wont have that problem with the ss contacts on the smart plug and as others have stated you only change the boat side ...best of luck
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:13   #48
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by Defeverboat View Post
Sorry 185 volts from bad circuit breakers, took them a week to replace them. We were at the end of the dock no power for a week. Marina would not get me a new ac unit.
I can see their point. Your circuit breaker should have tripped with a low voltage since the amperage would have increased. I might suggest you check your breaker and also insure it isn't rated to high for your new AC beyond start up current. They normally have a delay which will allow a starting spike of current. Don't burn up another AC it's a bit hard on the wallet.
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Old 02-10-2016, 19:51   #49
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
I have been boating for 40 years. I've owned boats built 1949 (although I'm certain the electrical system was upgraded at some point), 1966 (all original), 1973 (all original) and newer. I was a broker and inspected dozens and dozens of older boats, boats of all sizes from 19' pocket cruisers on up, boats built in the US, Canada, Europe, South Africa, South America and I cannot recall a single one that didn't have a fuse or circuit breaker on AC and DC on the electrical panels.

That means fuse or breaker on the main AC feed to the panel so no matter how many circuits were used in the boat the maximum current to the boat was fuse or breaker protected.

I don't know where you find all these boats with odd configurations like 25-30' boats with no room to install a starting battery or boats with no fuse or circuit breaker on the AC lines but you must be dealing with a very strange fleet if this is the case.
Well, despite your background you obviously haven't seen it all. My 1975 Douglas 32 came without an AC or DC main fuse or breaker, and I have seen, repaired, and improved several other older boats that did not have a main fuse or breaker on a distribution panel. Many boats in the 20 to 30 foot range with a 4 or 6 fuse DC panel had no main fuse or breaker (or any other type of current limiting device. Lots of older boats with a 4 breaker AC panel (cabin, water heater, refrigerator, charger) had no main breaker.

As for the other, please stop trying to drag other threads into new ones, and especially please refrain from purposefully misquoting me, in an attempt to detract fro the validity of my posts.

For the record, I have never stated a boat did not have room for a start battery.

(Though in fact, lots of boats have been built without any provision for any electrical system at all.)

I did state that if there is insufficient space to increase the house bank to the size desired, one may consider replacing the start battery with another house battery, with all the due warnings about not killing the house bank so the engine can't be started.

As I have had to request in another thread, please stop trying to detract from my valid posts with immaterial arguments.
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Old 02-10-2016, 22:10   #50
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by sailnow2011 View Post
I was in west marine yesterday and browsing clearance as I always do.
I noticed the defunct 125 volt 50 amp plugs and inlets for super cheap.
It got me thinking, instead of a 30 amp inlet plug, why not use a 50 amp inlet plug?
I have fried at least 3 inlets because of bad dock power. The 50 amp should have better contacts in the plug.
What do you think?
Change one wire end, and change the inlet.
There is a reason they're in the clearance bin.

The old style bayonet fittings are a poor design. Your shore power connection probably has more resistance than any other connection in the circuit. Couple that with a little boat movement and the outcome is not unexpected.

We've suffered a couple of similar issues. The smart plugs have a much better connection.

I'd change my thinking from cheapest option to best option. Which usually ends up cheaper anyway.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 03-10-2016, 05:43   #51
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Well, despite your background you obviously haven't seen it all. My 1975 Douglas 32 came without an AC or DC main fuse or breaker, and I have seen, repaired, and improved several other older boats that did not have a main fuse or breaker on a distribution panel. Many boats in the 20 to 30 foot range with a 4 or 6 fuse DC panel had no main fuse or breaker (or any other type of current limiting device. Lots of older boats with a 4 breaker AC panel (cabin, water heater, refrigerator, charger) had no main breaker.

I have never said I've seen it all, never said the boats and system you describe don't exist and I am quite certain that I do not know it all. What I have pointed out over and over is issues you put out as common and use as reasons for odd wiring schemes are in my experience quite rare. Never said nonexistent, just rare and uncommon.

I agree that their may be "many boats" with a panel as you describe but based on a percentage of boats in the world that many is a tiny fraction.

It makes sense to me in a public forum to put the main focus on issues that are relevant for great majority of the boats and boaters, especially when the OP in a thread has a typical and not unusual boat where none of your special cases apply. Of course don't ignore the special cases and it doesn't hurt to include a caveat that there are exceptions and for those few with rare or unique situations may require a unique solution.


As for the other, please stop trying to drag other threads into new ones, and especially please refrain from purposefully misquoting me, in an attempt to detract fro the validity of my posts.

Again I could say the same. You do understand that this a public forum and just as you are free to disagree with me or any other member I also have that same privilege, as long is it is done politely.

By the way, I have not quoted you and if I did would do so accurately and never "purposefully" misquote you or anyone. I find it very rude and insulting for you to accuse me of such.


For the record, I have never stated a boat did not have room for a start battery.

You have stated something to the effect that it is not uncommon to find boats where it is not feasible to have a proper house bank and a separate starting battery. If I have the time (not likely today) I can go back to your previous posts and quote it and if I do it will clearly be a quote and shown as such.

(Though in fact, lots of boats have been built without any provision for any electrical system at all.)

Lots? I would say based on the boats owned by the members of this forum that boats built without provision for any electrical system at all would be a fraction of one percent.

I did state that if there is insufficient space to increase the house bank to the size desired, one may consider replacing the start battery with another house battery, with all the due warnings about not killing the house bank so the engine can't be started.

As I have had to request in another thread, please stop trying to detract from my valid posts with immaterial arguments.
Listen Rod. You do have valid points and I have tried to acknowlege this. However in my experience many of your ideas apply to a tiny fraction of the boats on the water and a tiny fraction of the boats owned by forum members. You say many boats are this way and that way. Many is a relative term and does not mean a significant percentage of the boats in the world.

Yes there will always be exceptions to almost every rule but I think it is misleading to the overwhelming majority of the boaters to promote special cases as common solutions to common problems.
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Old 03-10-2016, 06:26   #52
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Listen Rod. You do have valid points and I have tried to acknowlege this. However in my experience many of your ideas apply to a tiny fraction of the boats on the water and a tiny fraction of the boats owned by forum members. You say many boats are this way and that way. Many is a relative term and does not mean a significant percentage of the boats in the world.

Yes there will always be exceptions to almost every rule but I think it is misleading to the overwhelming majority of the boaters to promote special cases as common solutions to common problems.
According to Merriam - Webster

Many - consisting of or amounting to a large but indefinite number <worked for many years>

Some of the most prolific manufacturers in the sailboat industry, did not provide a main fuse or breaker for the DC panel.

I don't know the exact numbers, so used the term "many".

Can you please stop with the personal attacks and "word police" tactics for every term I use to try discredit my valid posts.

It's just not cool.
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Old 03-10-2016, 06:45   #53
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
According to Merriam - Webster

Many - consisting of or amounting to a large but indefinite number <worked for many years>

Some of the most prolific manufacturers in the sailboat industry, did not provide a main fuse or breaker for the DC panel.

I don't know the exact numbers, so used the term "many".

Can you please stop with the personal attacks and "word police" tactics for every term I use to try discredit my valid posts.

It's just not cool.
Rod, I have never made any accusations towards you nor anything even coming close to a personal attack, but quite the contrary. I already agreed that "many" boats might have the systems or lack thereof or issues you focus on. However no matter how you want to define "many" that still does not mean a majority of the boats. I have no idea the exact number of boats that have what you describe but I have seen hundreds and very, very few were like your examples.

So if it makes you happy I will say, many boats are like yours, lots and lots of boats are like yours. Still doesn't mean it is common or a significant number in the overall scheme of things.
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Old 03-10-2016, 07:06   #54
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
You do understand that this a public forum and just as you are free to disagree with me or any other member I also have that same privilege, as long is it is done politely.


We BOTH have the right to disagree "politely".

I request that when you disagree with me, you do so politely.

This includes, not throwing in an inordinate amount of drivel to attempt to confuse the issue at hand, trying to stay on topic, defending your position with rational logic, not intentionally misquoting me, and making false claims about what I have stated in other threads in an attempt to discredit the validity of my arguments in another.

These things are not polite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
By the way, I have not quoted you and if I did would do so accurately and never "purposefully" misquote you or anyone. I find it very rude and insulting for you to accuse me of such.
Give me a break, there is yet another example right in this thread.

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
"You have stated something to the effect that it is not uncommon to find boats where it is not feasible to have a proper house bank and a separate starting battery.
I have never stated this.

Worse, it is not even relevant to this thread.

You are purposefully misrepresenting my posts and positions, in an attempt to invalidate my contributions.

This is only one example, there are others.

That is not only impolite, it is dishonourable.

Knock it off.
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Old 03-10-2016, 07:13   #55
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

Kiss and make up!
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:24   #56
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post


We BOTH have the right to disagree "politely".

I request that when you disagree with me, you do so politely.

This includes, not throwing in an inordinate amount of drivel to attempt to confuse the issue at hand, trying to stay on topic, defending your position with rational logic, not intentionally misquoting me, and making false claims about what I have stated in other threads in an attempt to discredit the validity of my arguments in another.

These things are not polite.


Rod, I said this before and came back to the discussions because your brought me back. I am done, this is my final reply.

I have never called you a name, I have never posted a single impolite comment about you, I just do not agree and have said so as politely as I can and stated logical reasons why.

You on the other hand accuse me of intentionally misquoting you which is tantamount to calling me a liar. I have never yet quoted you at all but paraphrased some of your statements.

I have never tried to personally discredit you, again I just do not agree with you and have said so politely and gave reasons in a polite reasonable tone stating why.

I have never called your statements drivel nor used any other disparaging adjectives about you or anything you have written.

I never called you dishonorable.

All the above you have done yet you accuse me of being impolite?






Give me a break, there is yet another example right in this thread.



I have never stated this.

Worse, it is not even relevant to this thread.

You are purposefully misrepresenting my posts and positions, in an attempt to invalidate my contributions.

This is only one example, there are others.

That is not only impolite, it is dishonourable.

Knock it off.
Here is one example where you accuse me of "misquoting" you.

This is a quote from your post #35, charging 4 banks from one alternator.

Here's one that may apply to virtually every small cruising or liveaboard boat...

"The boater does not have sufficient space for the size of house bank that is needed and used 100% of the time when disconnected from shore power, so chooses to forego a start battery that is typically used less than 0.1% of the time."



OK your wording was "chooses to forgo a start batter" which I interpret to mean there is not sufficient room for a separate start battery for the reason you stated. Yet your post #49 on this thread you say

"For the record, I have never stated a boat did not have room for a start battery."

So, maybe nitpicking but I did not completely make up the issue of lack of room for a start battery.

I could show many other examples but I am done and will not respond again regardless.
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:39   #57
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

Come on you two, you are hilarious! Now you both can jump me. You sound like two kids.
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:44   #58
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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I can see their point. Your circuit breaker should have tripped with a low voltage since the amperage would have increased. .
When the voltage drops, the current drops as well.
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Old 03-10-2016, 11:08   #59
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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When the voltage drops, the current drops as well.
You are right, with a resistive load. One of us can check on an inductive load.
It won't be me. That is not meant to be demeaning. My education is to old and I have no horse in the race. Maybe you or someone else knows. If I am wrong it wouldn't be the first time.
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Old 03-10-2016, 11:20   #60
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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You are right, with a resistive load. One of us can check on an inductive load.
It won't be me. That is not meant to be demeaning. My education is to old and I have no horse in the race. Maybe you or someone else knows. If I am wrong it wouldn't be the first time.
If the voltage is so low that a motor stalls, the current will rise because that motor is now just a DC resistance and not generating counter EMF (generating power in reverse).

Other than that, lower voltage means lower current.


And although the OP believes low voltage caused his power inlet to fail, he is incorrect in making the assumption that he has made.
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