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Old 30-09-2016, 18:22   #31
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

When I got my boat it has hubbell plugs 30 amp. No problems in six years. The only problem was the marina put 185 amps into my boat cost me a airconditioner they get old you know . I would like to know about hubbell 30 amp cords if they would be better than Marinco 30amp cords?
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Old 30-09-2016, 18:53   #32
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defeverboat View Post
When I got my boat it has hubbell plugs 30 amp. No problems in six years. The only problem was the marina put 185 amps into my boat cost me a airconditioner they get old you know . I would like to know about hubbell 30 amp cords if they would be better than Marinco 30amp cords?
Very interested to learn how a marina put 185 amps into your boat. Only way that occurs to me would be a huge voltage spike, say from a nearby lightning strike?
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Old 30-09-2016, 19:07   #33
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

Sorry 185 volts from bad circuit breakers, took them a week to replace them. We were at the end of the dock no power for a week. Marina would not get me a new ac unit.
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Old 30-09-2016, 19:21   #34
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by Defeverboat View Post
Sorry 185 volts from bad circuit breakers, took them a week to replace them. We were at the end of the dock no power for a week. Marina would not get me a new ac unit.
I imagine the contract for docking at the marina includes a pretty solid waiver of liability for anything and everything under the sun.
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Old 30-09-2016, 20:08   #35
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

The boat ends of my cords are hard wired in the boat, Many fewer connections and nothing to come loose and arc.
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Old 30-09-2016, 20:09   #36
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
The boat ends of my cords are hard wired in the boat, Many fewer connections and nothing to come loose.
Harder to misplace the cords as well.
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Old 01-10-2016, 00:14   #37
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

[QUOTE=skipmac;2224899]Well boat electrical doesn't really work that way. The odds are approaching zero of this being a problem and then only if there is some underlying problem with the system that could be a problem regardless of the supply.

First, I haven't seen a 50 amp 120V outlet for 20 years so doubtful anyone could find that kind of plug to use.

50A 120Vac outlets are all over the place in Ontario.

Second, every electrical panel I have seen has the AC input fused or wired to a circuit breaker which is rated for the capacity of the panel and the wiring in the boat, regardless of the capacity of the supply. So even if someone managed to find a 50 amp outlet the panel breaker would still pop if too much current is pulled by the boat.

Many older boats were not equipped with a main AC breaker or fuse. Mine was equipped with 4 x 15 A breakers, such that if all were on, and all loads drawing to the maximum the breakers could deliver, the boat would attempt to draw 60 A through the shore power cord.

Boats designed to current standards will have a main breaker that will limit total current drawn to that of the shore power rating IF someone hasn't mucked with it, which happens all too often.


90%??? You must see a different group of boaters where you live.

I hate to say it here, but yes, few DIYers can connect a shore power cord to a cable correctly. They may be able to get it to hold together, and maybe even work, right off the bat, for a while, but there is usually at least one error, being either:

1. Cable jacket cut incorrectly.
2. Conductor insulation cut incorrectly.
3. Conductors connected to wrong prongs.
4. Conductor strands damaged.
5. Loose conductor strands.
6. Strain relief feature not applied correctly.
7. Wrong cable.
8. Damaged connector.

Nobody will admit to it, and yet so much I see is done incorrectly.

Interestingly, your house is not required to have reverse polarity detection but your boat is. (Yes, sometimes marina power posts are wired incorrectly, but yes, sometimes it is due to DIY vessel shore power connections.)

There is a strange thing about boats. People who wouldn't dream about messing with the wiring in their house, will head to the boat on the weekend and have wire cutters going like a barbers scissors, and yet marine electrical standards are arguably more stringent than residential electrical standards, and the marine environment is far more severe without any question.


Yes I have seen plenty of DIY wiring screwups but ban marine plugs from sale to boaters.

Go down that road and you will have to ban 90% of what goes on in the boating world; not just sales of plugs would have to be banned but all wire, crimp connections and tools, batteries would have to be installed by licensed technicians.

So they should be, in most cases, based on what I see every day. ;-)

I conduct Marine Electrical Systems seminars for yacht clubs and boating groups.

I usually start asking, "Lets see a show of hands from everyone who does their own electrical work".

About 50% of hands go up.

Then I ask, "Who believes their electrical systems are safe."

All of the hands stay up.

Them I ask, "Who will take me up on my offer to inspect your boat for free if I find no safety issue, but charge you $200 for the inspection if I find one unsafe electrical condition.

All of the hands drop rapidly.

Then the rest of the seminar is spent describing what one should do, what one should not do, and the errors I commonly find.

At the end of the seminar, invariably a number will come up and ask me to inspect their electrical systems for $200. (They now know there are things wrong, that I am most definitely going to find.)

The truth is, one may think they know, what they need to know, but don't know, until they do know.

In other words, lots of boaters modify their electrical systems, without realizing just how unsafe they have made it.
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Old 01-10-2016, 00:17   #38
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defeverboat View Post
When I got my boat it has hubbell plugs 30 amp. No problems in six years. The only problem was the marina put 185 amps into my boat cost me a airconditioner they get old you know . I would like to know about hubbell 30 amp cords if they would be better than Marinco 30amp cords?
Marinco is a division of Hubbell.
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:04   #39
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Marinco is a division of Hubbell.
Nope.
Global Marine and Mobile is a Division of Power Products, LLC, with its brands Marinco®, Mastervolt, Ancor®, BEP, ProMariner, C-Zone™, and Blue Sea Systems.
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:11   #40
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

[QUOTE=ramblinrod;2225072]
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Well boat electrical doesn't really work that way. The odds are approaching zero of this being a problem and then only if there is some underlying problem with the system that could be a problem regardless of the supply.

First, I haven't seen a 50 amp 120V outlet for 20 years so doubtful anyone could find that kind of plug to use.

50A 120Vac outlets are all over the place in Ontario.

Second, every electrical panel I have seen has the AC input fused or wired to a circuit breaker which is rated for the capacity of the panel and the wiring in the boat, regardless of the capacity of the supply. So even if someone managed to find a 50 amp outlet the panel breaker would still pop if too much current is pulled by the boat.

Many older boats were not equipped with a main AC breaker or fuse. Mine was equipped with 4 x 15 A breakers, such that if all were on, and all loads drawing to the maximum the breakers could deliver, the boat would attempt to draw 60 A through the shore power cord.

Boats designed to current standards will have a main breaker that will limit total current drawn to that of the shore power rating IF someone hasn't mucked with it, which happens all too often.


90%??? You must see a different group of boaters where you live.

I hate to say it here, but yes, few DIYers can connect a shore power cord to a cable correctly. They may be able to get it to hold together, and maybe even work, right off the bat, for a while, but there is usually at least one error, being either:

1. Cable jacket cut incorrectly.
2. Conductor insulation cut incorrectly.
3. Conductors connected to wrong prongs.
4. Conductor strands damaged.
5. Loose conductor strands.
6. Strain relief feature not applied correctly.
7. Wrong cable.
8. Damaged connector.

Nobody will admit to it, and yet so much I see is done incorrectly.

Interestingly, your house is not required to have reverse polarity detection but your boat is. (Yes, sometimes marina power posts are wired incorrectly, but yes, sometimes it is due to DIY vessel shore power connections.)

There is a strange thing about boats. People who wouldn't dream about messing with the wiring in their house, will head to the boat on the weekend and have wire cutters going like a barbers scissors, and yet marine electrical standards are arguably more stringent than residential electrical standards, and the marine environment is far more severe without any question.


Yes I have seen plenty of DIY wiring screwups but ban marine plugs from sale to boaters.

Go down that road and you will have to ban 90% of what goes on in the boating world; not just sales of plugs would have to be banned but all wire, crimp connections and tools, batteries would have to be installed by licensed technicians.

So they should be, in most cases, based on what I see every day. ;-)

I conduct Marine Electrical Systems seminars for yacht clubs and boating groups.

I usually start asking, "Lets see a show of hands from everyone who does their own electrical work".

About 50% of hands go up.

Then I ask, "Who believes their electrical systems are safe."

All of the hands stay up.

Them I ask, "Who will take me up on my offer to inspect your boat for free if I find no safety issue, but charge you $200 for the inspection if I find one unsafe electrical condition.

All of the hands drop rapidly.

Then the rest of the seminar is spent describing what one should do, what one should not do, and the errors I commonly find.

At the end of the seminar, invariably a number will come up and ask me to inspect their electrical systems for $200. (They now know there are things wrong, that I am most definitely going to find.)

The truth is, one may think they know, what they need to know, but don't know, until they do know.

In other words, lots of boaters modify their electrical systems, without realizing just how unsafe they have made it.
This would be a heckofalot easier to follow if you used the quote function.
PS. Fuses have been illegal on boats in Canada since 1964 and I gave not seen a 120/50 shore power post in decades in Ontario.
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Old 01-10-2016, 05:27   #41
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defeverboat View Post
When I got my boat it has hubbell plugs 30 amp. No problems in six years. The only problem was the marina put 185 amps into my boat cost me a airconditioner they get old you know . I would like to know about hubbell 30 amp cords if they would be better than Marinco 30amp cords?
Not only is that impossible, it would be impossible for you to measure it.

Before that could happen, the dock pedestal breaker would have tripped, your boat's main breaker would have tripped and your shorepower cord would have acted as a fuse and melted.

There's no way to "put current into a boat". A boat "draws" current from the supply.
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Old 01-10-2016, 05:33   #42
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

[QUOTE=boatpoker;2225112]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post

PS. Fuses have been illegal on boats in Canada since 1964 .
My boat was manufactured in Canada in 1999 and has several fuses. Perhaps fuses are only illegal for the main panel because overcurrent protection for the main panel is supposed to disconnect both the hot and neutral conductors and a fuse cannot do that.
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Old 01-10-2016, 05:46   #43
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

The one time I suffered this it was due to corrosion on the boat inlet. I join with those who say your problem is more likely the boat receptacle not the shore power. Of course a 50 amp connection like a larger gauge of wire will be less vulnerable but periodic inspection and an occasional spray with a moisture blocker seems sufficient to me.
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Old 01-10-2016, 06:48   #44
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

[QUOTE=rwidman;2225152]
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post

My boat was manufactured in Canada in 1999 and has several fuses. Perhaps fuses are only illegal for the main panel because overcurrent protection for the main panel is supposed to disconnect both the hot and neutral conductors and a fuse cannot do that.
Sorry, I should have been more explicit as I believed we were talking only about the mains. However, there are other limitations on AC fuses. All I have onboard right now is the current Canadian Law which requires compliance with ABYC E-11 Circuit Protection which details this. As an aside, TC now states they are within a year of replacing all of their construction standards with ABYC. They said that last year too
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Old 01-10-2016, 13:20   #45
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Re: Replacing the power inlet for the last time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Many older boats were not equipped with a main AC breaker or fuse. Mine was equipped with 4 x 15 A breakers, such that if all were on, and all loads drawing to the maximum the breakers could deliver, the boat would attempt to draw 60 A through the shore power cord.
I have been boating for 40 years. I've owned boats built 1949 (although I'm certain the electrical system was upgraded at some point), 1966 (all original), 1973 (all original) and newer. I was a broker and inspected dozens and dozens of older boats, boats of all sizes from 19' pocket cruisers on up, boats built in the US, Canada, Europe, South Africa, South America and I cannot recall a single one that didn't have a fuse or circuit breaker on AC and DC on the electrical panels.

That means fuse or breaker on the main AC feed to the panel so no matter how many circuits were used in the boat the maximum current to the boat was fuse or breaker protected.

I don't know where you find all these boats with odd configurations like 25-30' boats with no room to install a starting battery or boats with no fuse or circuit breaker on the AC lines but you must be dealing with a very strange fleet if this is the case.
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