Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

[svmeanderer]

Originally Posted by psneeld

....because nobody can prove one way or the other....that one diet over the other is better...not without so many conditions on the statement that I have never read one thing that could convince me or other rational people I know that one diet over the other is conclusive.....

You haven't looked in the right places. There's overwhelming proof. There is, however, a huge and wealthy meat and dairy industry that makes sure you don't get the proof. Because of that, you know "Got Milk?" and "Beef, it's what's for dinner" but you don't know that even lettuce has more protein per calorie than a steak (it's a fact).

The low carbohydrate/high protein diet that has been pushed in a dozen fad diets documenting how insulin is the enemy are the things without real scientific background. But they conform to the meat and dairy industry so the result is that you know (and believe) them. You only need to look up pictures of Atkins himself who usually was dressed in a suit or sweater hiding his overweight girth. Interesting how he suffered a cardiac arrest and died young? Think there's the possibility for a connection to his diet?

If you want the truth, look at science. Harvard and Cornell are pretty good places to start. To be entertained while learning, search YouTube for McDougall. Find out about "The China Study" - the largest, most comprehensive scientific study about nutrition and diet ever conducted. It took 30 years to collect the data and you probably never heard about it. Take a guess about why. Watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives." If you approach those things with an open mind, your life will be forever changed.

We're full-time liveaboard vegans for health reasons. I like the animal rights positions as a side benefit but I'm not nuts over it. I don't protest labs or slaughterhouses and I haven't thrown out my leather belts. It's easy to be vegan onboard and you wouldn't have a problem doing it anywhere. The most difficult thing are the times when you want to go to a restaurant and there's just nothing possible in many of the smaller towns. But because we're so compliant 95%+ of the time, we enjoy that great steak or fantastic burger, perhaps about as often as Mark sits down to a nice plate of quinoa and roasted vegetables.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by svmeanderer

You haven't looked in the right places. There's overwhelming proof. There is, however, a huge and wealthy meat and dairy industry that makes sure you don't get the proof. Because of that, you know "Got Milk?" and "Beef, it's what's for dinner" but you don't know that even lettuce has more protein per calorie than a steak (it's a fact).

Here's another fact - high quality vegan foods are expensive and difficult to obtain in the U.S.

Healthy, balanced vegan diets are not accessible to the poor, are costly for the middle class, and impractical for anyone else who frequently eats out in American style restaurants.

Sorry, I don't have any source for this except my own observations over about the last 10 years since I gave up my vegan diet.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by svmeanderer

...but you don't know that even lettuce has more protein per calorie than a steak (it's a fact).

I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables and restrict my meat intake primarily to fish, chicken and wild game.

What you stated herein is incorrect. As reference go to nutritiondata.com. It is a wonderful resource for all sorts of foods, including packaged foods which I do not eat.

If you are a dedicated vegan, you're well aware that not all minerals or vitamins can be obtained even if you supplement with pills which has God knows what as fillers. Meat in appropriate quantities is an essential part of all diets.

[GreyBeardVA]

Originally Posted by svmeanderer

You haven't looked in the right places. There's overwhelming proof. There is, however, a huge and wealthy meat and dairy industry that makes sure you don't get the proof. Because of that, you know "Got Milk?" and "Beef, it's what's for dinner" but you don't know that even lettuce has more protein per calorie than a steak (it's a fact).

The low carbohydrate/high protein diet that has been pushed in a dozen fad diets documenting how insulin is the enemy are the things without real scientific background. But they conform to the meat and dairy industry so the result is that you know (and believe) them. You only need to look up pictures of Atkins himself who usually was dressed in a suit or sweater hiding his overweight girth. Interesting how he suffered a cardiac arrest and died young? Think there's the possibility for a connection to his diet?

If you want the truth, look at science. Harvard and Cornell are pretty good places to start. To be entertained while learning, search YouTube for McDougall. Find out about "The China Study" - the largest, most comprehensive scientific study about nutrition and diet ever conducted. It took 30 years to collect the data and you probably never heard about it. Take a guess about why. Watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives." If you approach those things with an open mind, your life will be forever changed.

We're full-time liveaboard vegans for health reasons. I like the animal rights positions as a side benefit but I'm not nuts over it. I don't protest labs or slaughterhouses and I haven't thrown out my leather belts. It's easy to be vegan onboard and you wouldn't have a problem doing it anywhere. The most difficult thing are the times when you want to go to a restaurant and there's just nothing possible in many of the smaller towns. But because we're so compliant 95%+ of the time, we enjoy that great steak or fantastic burger, perhaps about as often as Mark sits down to a nice plate of quinoa and roasted vegetables.

Does being vegan mean you do not eat fish? I tend mostly towards vegetables myself wondering how I am going to get fresh during a cruise. I watched a few videos of cruisers hauling in giant Mahi, Tuna, etc. and thought I could do that but then I saw how they killed the fish before carving it up... So now I'm back to wondering about healthy eating as a cruiser.

[Coops]

To balance the statement out about protein and steak. Probably correct, but, you would have to eat a pea size bit of steak and a truckload full of lettuce(I know it's an exaggeration) to get the same calorie.

Coops.

[svmeanderer]

Originally Posted by ArtM

Here's another fact - high quality vegan foods are expensive and difficult to obtain in the U.S.

Our own findings are different - vegan is much less expensive than meat and dairy. Of course if you feel you have to buy at Trader Joe's, you're kind of into the shiek end of the movement. But in the general case, consider that when an aid organization wants to feed thousands of starving people because of a natural disaster, war, or just bad economic conditions, they always go the vegetarian route. And the reason? It's much less expensive.

Consider the systematic differences. Cows, chickens, and pigs are fed vegetables and grains. They process the protein and build mass so others can eat their flesh. Isn't is obviously more efficient and less expensive to just eat the vegetables and grains ourselves and save the hormones, and antibiotics the animals are being force-fed along with the fat their protein is wrapped in?

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by avb3

I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables and restrict my meat intake primarily to fish, chicken and wild game.

What you stated herein is incorrect. As reference go to nutritiondata.com. It is a wonderful resource for all sorts of foods, including packaged foods which I do not eat.

If you are a dedicated vegan, you're well aware that not all minerals or vitamins can be obtained even if you supplement with pills which has God knows what as fillers. Meat in appropriate quantities is an essential part of all diets.

And yet, I know a number of healthy vegans, including people who have raised their children that way. One is in the second year of her medical residency now. It doesn't seem to have done her much damage.

I could never ba a vegan. I love a good stake with caramelized onions.

[svmeanderer]

Originally Posted by avb3

If you are a dedicated vegan, you're well aware that not all minerals or vitamins can be obtained even if you supplement with pills which has God knows what as fillers. Meat in appropriate quantities is an essential part of all diets.

The only thing that's missing is B12 which is a bacteria that lives in meat. Now a significant amount of our Darwinian evolution heritage were non-meat eaters so how did they get B12 which is essential for nerve activity? Well they got it from the bacteria that were on the vegetables they ate before we were so good about washing everything and killing the "good" bacteria.

So yeah, a practicing vegan today needs a B12 supplement twice a week costing about 10 cents. Very likely, the local vegetables in the Caribbean are loaded with B12 although that's pure speculation.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by svmeanderer

You haven't looked in the right places. There's overwhelming proof. There is, however, a huge and wealthy meat and dairy industry that makes sure you don't get the proof. Because of that, you know "Got Milk?" and "Beef, it's what's for dinner" but you don't know that even lettuce has more protein per calorie than a steak (it's a fact).

The low carbohydrate/high protein diet that has been pushed in a dozen fad diets documenting how insulin is the enemy are the things without real scientific background. But they conform to the meat and dairy industry so the result is that you know (and believe) them. You only need to look up pictures of Atkins himself who usually was dressed in a suit or sweater hiding his overweight girth. Interesting how he suffered a cardiac arrest and died young? Think there's the possibility for a connection to his diet?

If you want the truth, look at science. Harvard and Cornell are pretty good places to start. To be entertained while learning, search YouTube for McDougall. Find out about "The China Study" - the largest, most comprehensive scientific study about nutrition and diet ever conducted. It took 30 years to collect the data and you probably never heard about it. Take a guess about why. Watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives." If you approach those things with an open mind, your life will be forever changed.

We're full-time liveaboard vegans for health reasons. I like the animal rights positions as a side benefit but I'm not nuts over it. I don't protest labs or slaughterhouses and I haven't thrown out my leather belts. It's easy to be vegan onboard and you wouldn't have a problem doing it anywhere. The most difficult thing are the times when you want to go to a restaurant and there's just nothing possible in many of the smaller towns. But because we're so compliant 95%+ of the time, we enjoy that great steak or fantastic burger, perhaps about as often as Mark sits down to a nice plate of quinoa and roasted vegetables.

The problem with these conspiracy theories is the hundreds or thousands of people who would have to stay silent, many of whom would make just as much money proving the "hidden truth" true. Scientists just publish their results, whatever they are. But if they prove common beliefs wrong, then they are MORE likely to get more grant money -- not less. We don't have whole bureaucracies colluding to keep us in the dark. I've heard this about dozens of issues. It's just not possible. People talk.

If you want to be a vegan, be a vegan. If you want to believe the research you have found, go for it. The fact is that you will learn a lot about eating a balanced diet while being vegan, and you'll be as healthy as anyone else, until you die.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by GreyBeardVA

Does being vegan mean you do not eat fish? I tend mostly towards vegetables myself wondering how I am going to get fresh during a cruise. I watched a few videos of cruisers hauling in giant Mahi, Tuna, etc. and thought I could do that but then I saw how they killed the fish before carving it up... So now I'm back to wondering about healthy eating as a cruiser.

The student couple I met the other day are "piscatarians" -- I think that's how you would spell it. They're vegetarian except that they eat fish.

[svmeanderer]

Originally Posted by GreyBeardVA

Does being vegan mean you do not eat fish?

Fish have the same poor properties as other meats although some properties are better. In general, fish are filled with other toxins based on the environment that they live in. There have been very little scientific study about the long-term effects of what those pesticides, carcinogens, petroleum products, and other runoff does to humans. But there's no way it's good.

True vegans don't eat honey because it's produced through the work of animals. I think that's whacko and have no problem cooking with honey at times.

The reality is that dairy (milk, eggs, cheese) can be argued as being worse than meat for human health. In fact, if you just gave up dairy, you'd be way ahead in living a more healthy lifestyle.

[svmeanderer]

Originally Posted by Coops

but, you would have to eat a pea size bit of steak and a truckload full of lettuce

That's a good point. But it's also probably why there are so few obese vegans and so many overweight meat eaters.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by svmeanderer

That's a good point. But it's also probably why there are so few obese vegans and so many overweight meat eaters.

Actually, the research shows that vegetarians don't lose weight any more than people who eat meat do. The body still consumes the calories it wants. "Going vegan" is not a way to lose weight.

I most certainly have known overweight vegans, and I know plenty of people who eat meat and are not overweight.

It's just a matter of calories. To gain 10 lb. in a year you only have to eat 91 extra calories a day. That can happen quite easily when you change your diet.

[Coops]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

The student couple I met the other day are "piscatarians" -- I think that's how you would spell it. They're vegetarian except that they eat fish.

I am a 'pisscatorian". I will eat anything if there is a beer with it.

Coops.

[MARC D]

Never would have clicked on this thread...until I saw a post from Coops