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Old 13-10-2013, 19:50   #106
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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Originally Posted by Coops View Post
Better read this then which seems to throw some water on the subject.

What Dr. Campbell Won't Tell You About the China Study

Coops.
Certainly the industries who would be most hurt by Dr. Campbell's findings have paid authors and bloggers at one time or another? I would assume so. They spend millions on lobbyists -- that's disclosed fact. They also spend millions on PR placements and advertising.

Take things from whence they came.
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Old 13-10-2013, 19:52   #107
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

No to the processed foods...as I said my levels were well below all the "bad" thresholds before and after eating vegetarian for about 1.5 years.

Why do "born again" health types assume some of us spend the better part of our day eating at McDonalds feeding our 37 point IQ's????

Hey eat whatever you want...but like bald guys in robes knocking at my front door...you have to come up with way better stuff than what's been printed so far or filmed to convince me that certain diets are the pathway to long, healthy lives for everyone when so many that have just eaten "traditional healthy" have had long, heathy lives too....
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:06   #108
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

It's completely possible and in fact very easy to eat a fattening, unhealthy diet as a Vegan or Vegetarian.

Crisco oil, bleached flour, salt, and corn syrup are all vegan foods, as well as a multitude of preservatives, additives, and artificial flavorings that go into common foods.

It's also possible to eat a healthy, rational diet that includes various meats and perhaps dairy products - dairy is where I start to feel some uncertainty - assuming that you are getting a good blend of fiber, protein, and vitamins and not overeating.

But Americans do overeat. Then we go to a gym and work out for hours at a time in an attempt to overcome the overeating. Then we go home and "treat ourselves" for a good workout. Then we sit in an office chair for almost 8 hours straight, occasionally stimulating ourselves with caffeine and sugar. Then another large meal, then more time at the gym.
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:07   #109
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

As far as Im concerned, Pork makes almost any veggie better !!! And beef don't hurt it either!! Just my feelings!!
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:08   #110
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

Me too. I love beer, chocolates, fish and chips, burgers etc. Eat vegies because I know that I should, not because I really like them. Never eat fruit at all and I am 64 and never been sick enough to have a week off work or go to hospital. I am a not overweight 86 kilos, and until two years ago when my knees decided that they had had enough pounding, played amateur comp tennis three times a week. One day I guess that it will all catch up with me, but, at least I know that I enjoyed it.

PS. That thing that I put up was the first thing that I found on google. I do not care enough about it to look further, just hate being told what I should be doing with my life and body by them that want to tell me they know what is good for me.

Coops.
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:15   #111
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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Originally Posted by pressuredrop View Post
are you firmiliar with this book, nutrition and physical degeneration by weston price?
You mean that exact book from 1939? I can't say that I would use it in any fact finding for making decisions today.


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Originally Posted by pressuredrop View Post
how do you feel about the fact there is absolutely no historical reference of vegan diet among an indigenous, primitive, population anywhere on this planet?
I'm not sure that it matters or that it's true. Let's look at our own digestive system.

- Our teeth are not the teeth of meat eaters. Compare our canine teeth to any real carnivore like a tiger or a dog. Our teeth have evolved for eating fruit, not ripping apart flesh.

- Our closest species evolution-wise is the chimpanzee and gorilla. Both are vegan in their diet although both eat a very small amount of bugs (about 2% of their diet).

- Our intestines are very long compared to all other meat eaters. It's been suggested that shorter intestines stops the larger absorption of fat and cholesterol. Dogs have a much shorter intestines and pass out those bad nutrients much quicker. In our longer intestines, we take them in, hold them, and squeeze everything out of them, especially the bad parts.

- Proteins are comprised of amino acids. They are acids and the human body is very good at keeping its pH level balanced. The body's base to balance acids is calcium-bicarbonate which is uses a fair amount of calcium. Why is it that the countries with the highest intake of dairy and protein, have the highest incidence of osteoporosis? See this synopsis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2957223/

Norway and Sweden are through the roof.

...and that's just the beginning.
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:26   #112
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
It's completely possible and in fact very easy to eat a fattening, unhealthy diet as a Vegan or Vegetarian.

Crisco oil, bleached flour, salt, and corn syrup are all vegan foods, as well as a multitude of preservatives, additives, and artificial flavorings that go into common foods.

It's also possible to eat a healthy, rational diet that includes various meats and perhaps dairy products - dairy is where I start to feel some uncertainty - assuming that you are getting a good blend of fiber, protein, and vitamins and not overeating.

But Americans do overeat. Then we go to a gym and work out for hours at a time in an attempt to overcome the overeating. Then we go home and "treat ourselves" for a good workout. Then we sit in an office chair for almost 8 hours straight, occasionally stimulating ourselves with caffeine and sugar. Then another large meal, then more time at the gym.
And chocolate!!! Don't forget that chocolate is vegan.

As far as the rest of it; sit at a desk, overeat, go to the gym, eat more, sit at a desk. Well I resemble that remark.
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Old 14-10-2013, 01:03   #113
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Here are a series of critques and peer-reviewed articles directly related the The China Study

http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
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Old 14-10-2013, 04:00   #114
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

, just hate being told what I should be doing with my life and body by them that want to tell me they know what is good for me.

Coops.[/QUOTE]

Then why pray tell are you reading and posting in a vegan related thread? Surely not to tell people theyre wrong and should prescribe to your way of life because you feel its worked for you.
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Old 14-10-2013, 06:36   #115
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

I think it does not matter where the elements come from, lettuce or beef, as long as the diet is wholesome.

Vegan or not is fine but do not try this at home in a Nordic country. You simply do not get lettuce to grow there from August till June. A seal is your lettuce there.

The sad fact is that our meat comes from factories and so the fact of killing gets comfortably removed from the vision of most meat eaters.

Sort of different world to be in the woods full of hunters or just crossing a green field growing corn or any other green food. A world of difference.

A diet for the body and for the soul too.

b.
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Old 14-10-2013, 07:56   #116
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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I think it does not matter where the elements come from, lettuce or beef, as long as the diet is wholesome.
b.
This seems the truth of it. The critique of the study focuses a lot on other factors not considered (environment, genes, how active you are) and it is very difficult to definitively say any one type of food is the cause of disease or a healthier lifestyle.

Anecdotally, I watched my step-father, in his early 60s and who was a vegetarian for the last 35 years of his life, die of lymph/lung cancer. Although he was a vegetarian, he made poor food choices. Junk food was a staple because many bags of corn and wheat based crisps, infused with fake flavorings were a favorite. And tofu hot dogs with 'cheese like' products slathered on. And tootsie rolls. So many tootsies. He also smoked as a younger man and sometimes drank too much. He worked construction and breathed in fumes and particulates when younger but didn't really exercise as he got older. What is it that killed him, who knows. It can be any number of things in our lives.

I also watched my grandmother eat whole meats, and the most delicious friend chicken (fried in lard!) but she also grew a garden and ate many vegetables. Rarely could you find a snack in her house, maybe a little jello. She exercised some everyday. She also chain-smoked from her teens until she was over 90 years old. When she could no longer see, she gave up smoking and died less than two years later, out of boredom IMO. Good genes I guess.

Also consider, almost every vegan or vegetarian who adheres to the spirit of their diet says they feel better and lost unwanted weight. Almost very Primal diet adherent says the same. The key seems to be in making a conscience decision to eat wholesome foods, that may or may not include animal protein and/or grains and dairy.
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Old 14-10-2013, 08:25   #117
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

All vegetarians in the audience put your hands up. There are a lot more they're just too weak to raise them.
How do you tell if someone's a vegan? Don't worry they'll tell you.

Just kidding of course. Watching "forks over knives" as mentioned in a previous post changed my eating habits.
I find mushrooms (think big old portabellos) are a better meat substitute than tofu. They'd probably grow pretty good in some bilges I've seen.

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Old 14-10-2013, 08:38   #118
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Vegetarian:

And old Indian word for lousy hunter
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Old 14-10-2013, 08:54   #119
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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I think it does not matter where the elements come from, lettuce or beef, as long as the diet is wholesome.
100% agree. One does not have to be vegan or vegetarian to eat healthy. The goal is a balanced, nutritious diet which certainly can include meat, fish, poultry in reasonable quantities. If you look at the human body the teeth and digestive tract are comparable to animals with an omnivorous diet so the human body should easily deal with food from almost any source.

That being said, I think few would disagree that the diet in the US for many, is way too heavy on animal proteins. This doesn't even address the additives, hormones and antibiotics in most US meat.



Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
The sad fact is that our meat comes from factories and so the fact of killing gets comfortably removed from the vision of most meat eaters.
Well like the joke that vegetarian is Indian for bad hunter, if meat eaters had to kill and butcher their own cow there would be a lot more vegetarians in the world.



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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Sort of different world to be in the woods full of hunters or just crossing a green field growing corn or any other green food. A world of difference.

A diet for the body and for the soul too.

b.
It is not a joke that you are what you eat, physically and spiritually.
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Old 14-10-2013, 10:57   #120
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

Is it just me or do other vegans not eat much lettuce? Occassionally I will buy some red leaf to make wraps but my salads are more likely full of sprouts kale moringa leaves broccoli or collard greens but hardly ever lettuce.
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