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Old 15-10-2013, 12:07   #151
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Originally Posted by forsailbyowner View Post

May I ask what exactly is your point? Are you here to say choosing a vegan diet is wrong? or offends you? Im very curious as what your trying to say.


You indicated that there there are scientific studies that show humans only recently developed as omnivores. I outline a number of studies that indicate otherwise. You by the way did not reference any of the studies you said exist. The vast majority what I showed come from scholarly sources. Facts matter.

The book the China Study was referenced a lot earlier, and I indicated it misinterpreted the raw data because it had a prejudice point of view. I also substantiated with references why that was the case. Again, facts matter.

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……… I came up with the conclusion that eating a mainly plant based diet ,avoiding processed foods and preservatives, eating nutrient dense foods and minimizing stress will lessen my chances of dieing a horrible painful slow death. Tell me why Im wrong again but please let me in on your motivation.
You making your choice of diet for your reasons is not wrong. What I question is when someone brings out non scientific or misinterprets scientific data and then suggest that they are facts.

Hence my references to scholarly studies. Most of us are well aware that high fat diets are not healthy. You probably would be surprised at the amount of vegetables or fruits I eat, but I do not exclude all meats.
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Old 15-10-2013, 12:21   #152
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Even though I've been a vegetarian for over 40 years I see no point in trying to convert others to my point of view for any moral or dietary reasons. It's about like arguing religion, politics, climate change, guns or anchors. No matter what is said no one on either side is going to change his or her mind and at the end of the day, it's none of my business what another person wants to do with his or her body.

Also I think a balanced diet whether vegan, vegetarian or omnivorous can be healthy, assuming the food is not loaded with hormones, chemical additives, antibiotics, pesticides and the rest of the crap that is common in much food today.

What I do believe that is not arguable is the impact meat production has on the environment and resources of the planet. I have read from many sources that it takes 12 lbs to over 20 lbs of vegetable protein to produce one lb of meat protein or some similar multiple of land to do the same. Also the wastes generated by large scale animal husbandry needed to supply the meat protein demands of the US have a huge impact on the environment. Millions of gallons of waste with the associated odor, high nitrate and other content is polluting large areas of the country. I see it particularly bad in Florida where much of the state geology is very porous karst with numerous underground water channels that can transmit the waste to water supplies miles away.

AND, yes I know that agriculture also generates wastes and runoff from fertilizer use but the levels are much lower and it can be easier to minimize the impacts.

So whether or not you believe any particular diet is better or worse for your body, a non-meat diet is undeniably kinder to the planet.

I won't even get into fish and the overfishing damage to global fish stocks which is another fun topic to address.

Good post, and I can agree with the vast majority of what you talk about in here.

The issues and use of fertilization, the chemicals used, and I don't even want to touch the issue of GMO'S are real and at some point will need to be addressed.

Whether omnivore, vegetarian, or vegan, we as a society and human beings are going to have to find ways of raising or obtaining our food n a more ecologically friendly manner.

I can't even imagine how to start addressing that issue.
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Old 15-10-2013, 15:07   #153
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

[QUOTE=skipmac;1365602]Even though I've been a vegetarian for over 40 years I see no point in trying to convert others to my point of view for any moral or dietary reasons. It's about like arguing religion, politics, climate change, guns or anchors. No matter what is said no one on either side is going to change his or her mind and at the end of the day, it's none of my business what another person wants to do with his or her body.

Also I think a balanced diet whether vegan, vegetarian or omnivorous can be healthy, assuming the food is not loaded with hormones, chemical additives, antibiotics, pesticides and the rest of the crap that is common in much food today.

What I do believe that is not arguable is the impact meat production has on the environment and resources of the planet. I have read from many sources that it takes 12 lbs to over 20 lbs of vegetable protein to produce one lb of meat protein or some similar multiple of land to do the same. Also the wastes generated by large scale animal husbandry needed to supply the meat protein demands of the US have a huge impact on the environment. Millions of gallons of waste with the associated odor, high nitrate and other content is polluting large areas of the country. I see it particularly bad in Florida where much of the state geology is very porous karst with numerous underground water channels that can transmit the waste to water supplies miles away.

AND, yes I know that agriculture also generates wastes and runoff from fertilizer use but the levels are much lower and it can be easier to minimize the impacts.

So whether or not you believe any particular diet is better or worse for your body, a non-meat diet is undeniably kinder to the planet.


On top of the aforementioned, according to USDA data from which it was compiled meat and dairy are the most chemically polluted foods offered today. They hold the place at the top of the "dirty dozen"The pesticides and fungicides used in the feed production which include a wide array of chemicals are stored in the fat of the animal. Little is eliminated as the animal is on a fattening program till its slaughtered. Then introduce the antibiotics and growth hormones into the chemical soup. If you think organic produce is expensive try some premium organic steak out on your wallet and see how it goes. So you can still say pesticides< hormones, antibiotics and fungicides dont matter and dont hurt your health. The sad fact is one in three americans will develop some form of cancer in their lifetime. Just roll the dice. One school of thought goes we all develop cancer cells, some just feed theirs better.
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Old 15-10-2013, 15:46   #154
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[QUOTE="avb3;1365599"]

Where we seem to disagree, is that science does seem to indicate that we require some parts of our diet to be supplied by nutrients available in meat.

I'm new to this Forum and so to this thread but if I recall correctly (and I very well could be incorrect), this thread started by someone talking about living aboard and consuming a vegan diet. I'm not exactly sure where it got to be a debate about what is the best diet to consume but I don't think that was the original intent of the thread. Being that it has gotten "off topic", I think I'll add a few things, however.

I have been an ethical vegan for 41 years. I have no health problems, still bike to and from work as well as many other places, teach a very active Kindergarten class of 18 five and six year olds (which can zap the energy from the best of us), still have energy to bike home from work and still remain active when I get home. I also have raised 5 healthy children on a vegan diet. I use no supplements at all and am able to provide my body with all it needs w/o consuming any animal products at all. I also have no problem consuming a vegan diet while cruising. I plan to live aboard permanently in less than 2 years. Maintaining a vegan diet while doing so is the least of my worries. It is important that each person, no matter what diet s/he has chosen, ensures that the nutrients the body needs to function properly are being consumed. It should also be noted that the American Heart Association endorses a vegan diet.

There is no definitive research that has not been financed by the dairy or meat industry or other entity that has a vested interest in lowering the rate of veganism (which continues to grow, not decline) in order to increase its profit that says veganism is bad for the human body. It is important to research what deep pockets are being used in funding any research as, unfortunately, results are many times skewed to meet the agenda of the funder(s).

I am not going to argue or debate your suppositions that humans have teeth of omnivores (just don't think my teeth are like bears though who are true omnivores) or your thoughts on the digestive system (which in humans is at least 3 times longer than true meat eaters leaving meat in our intestines for a much longer time to putrify and cause damage hence the higher stomach cancer rates in countries where meat is a major part of the diet). What I will say, however, is that our bodies do not naturally produce enzymes to digest dairy or meat. If I inadvertently consume either, I end up with quite severe intestinal distress, therefore it is not a natural process for our bodies to produce those enzymes. In fact, the large percentage of people with lactose intolerance also testifies to this. We are the only species that willingly seeks out another animals bodily fluid for inclusion in our diet.

BTW, the state in which I live pays teachers poorly. I am a single parent of five children and am able to provide quality, many times organic, foods for my family. Just as an example, a half gallon of organic dairy milk costs, on average, $3.98 in my area. A half gallon of organic soy milk, in the same store, costs $2.98 so cost is definitely not an issue.

It is each person's right to consume whatever diet they chose. It is not anyone else's right to put anyone else's diet choice down in any way, shape, or form. I have not insulted anyone's diet choice here. That is not my place or right. My diet affects no one but me. Yours affects no one but you. Leave it be and respect each person's choice even if it's foreign to you or you don't truly understand it.
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Old 15-10-2013, 16:21   #155
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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It is each person's right to consume whatever diet they chose. It is not anyone else's right to put anyone else's diet choice down in any way, shape, or form. I have not insulted anyone's diet choice here. That is not my place or right. My diet affects no one but me. Yours affects no one but you. Leave it be and respect each person's choice even if it's foreign to you or you don't truly understand it.
Very well said...and welcome to CF dilemma.

If your comments above are an indication of what we will be seeing from you in the future, you will be a much appreciated addition to this Forum.
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Old 15-10-2013, 16:37   #156
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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Very well said...and welcome to CF dilemma.

If your comments above are an indication of what we will be seeing from you in the future, you will be a much appreciated addition to this Forum.
I second that! Good stuff.
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Old 15-10-2013, 18:44   #157
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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There's growing proof that human meat eating is a recent thing.
I hear it taste just like chicken.
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Old 15-10-2013, 18:58   #158
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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I hear it taste just like chicken.
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Old 15-10-2013, 19:49   #159
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I hear it taste just like chicken.
Technically since our cardiovascular, respiratory system and fat content are almost identical, word is that human tastes like pork...
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Old 15-10-2013, 20:03   #160
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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Technically since our cardiovascular, respiratory system and fat content are almost identical, word is that human tastes like pork...
Perhaps the reason for the old Polynesian name for human flesh, "long pig".
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Old 15-10-2013, 20:04   #161
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

Now this is what I call thread drift! From Vegan Liveaboards to cannibalism.

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Old 15-10-2013, 20:32   #162
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Now this is what I call thread drift! From Vegan Liveaboards to cannibalism.
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Old 16-10-2013, 04:17   #163
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
You indicated that there there are scientific studies that show humans only recently developed as omnivores. I outline a number of studies that indicate otherwise. You by the way did not reference any of the studies you said exist. The vast majority what I showed come from scholarly sources. Facts matter.

The book the China Study was referenced a lot earlier, and I indicated it misinterpreted the raw data because it had a prejudice point of view. I also substantiated with references why that was the case. Again, facts matter.



You making your choice of diet for your reasons is not wrong. What I question is when someone brings out non scientific or misinterprets scientific data and then suggest that they are facts.

Hence my references to scholarly studies. Most of us are well aware that high fat diets are not healthy. You probably would be surprised at the amount of vegetables or fruits I eat, but I do not exclude all meats.


I didnt bring up any scientific data. Ive been on this forum for a while. Everytime someone mentions vegan, the vegan bashers immediately hijack the thread and it turns into vegans/vegetarians defending their lifestyle.

Vegetarian Cruising

avb3 you forgot to post the same picture of the indian with the joke that you posted when you were hijacking that thread about vegetarian cruising. Some of the same hijackers were on that thread. So its all been said before.

here are some quotes:
avb3......Meat, in moderation IS a healthier life style!
There is a reason we have omnivorous teeth; nature knows best, and omnivores need meat. End of story... the rest is new age hyperbole.
Now, where is my low fat venison steak that is going to be BBQ'd today?

avb3.....

It intrigues me that vegetarians and vegans exude the benefits of their choice as being natural, yet NEED to revert to artificial and unnatural means to supplement dietary deficiencies and nutrients that would be obtained by meat, fish, fowl or even eggs.

Nothing like promulgating the pill popping culture.

It's such a first world thing.

I find many vegetarians pontificate, and when they do, I have a tendency to respond.

I think going totally vegan is nuts,

So this thread is basically a rerun. If you would like to see the original episode visit the above link with all the teeth pics vegan bashing ad nauseum some of the same players.
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Old 16-10-2013, 04:28   #164
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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Ok, wild and crazy question and please don't eat me for breakfast for asking, but are there any liveaboards that follow a vegan lifestyle?

We have recently changed our diets drastically and it occurred to me that plant based diets may have a harder time getting fresh veg/fruit while cruising. I haven't cruised at all (yet), so I'm just wondering how hard it might be to sustain our diets along those avenues.

Thanks much for any info in advance!

~Red
Getting back to the original question, any tips from cruisers following a plant based diet, either by choice or by necessity?

I have searched through my recipe files and I'm surprised to find just how dishes I make are vegan. I am a lousy hunter and with the exception of fresh greens, I find vegan ingredients the easiest not the hardest to source in the Med and store on board long term (without 24 refrigeration).

I have started a new thread on vegan recipes and will keep adding to them.
Contributions would be very appreciated and I am sure of interest to lots of cruisers:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-113368.html
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Old 16-10-2013, 05:59   #165
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Re: Vegan Liveaboards?

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Originally Posted by forsailbyowner View Post
I didnt bring up any scientific data. Ive been on this forum for a while. Everytime someone mentions vegan, the vegan bashers immediately hijack the thread and it turns into vegans/vegetarians defending their lifestyle.
Well said.

And that's where I draw the line myself now too. Anyone is welcome to decide for themselves what diet they should live by. I'm not trying or interested in converting anyone - that doesn't work. But I'm not going to sit back and let the ignorant old thinking stand on its own without challenge.

As for being a vegan and cruising, again, my suggestion is to take a season and plan your day-to-day travels based on farmers markets. Some people cruise to explore history; some to walk on beaches. Try exploring the various farmers markets and you'll have a wonderful time of enjoying local produce, finding recipes to use them, and learning about the area you're visiting.

We also keep a staple storage of beans, rice, canned goods, etc. It's really quite easy and lends itself very well to the cruising lifestyle, blending with the environment, and leaving a small wake.
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