Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-06-2016, 08:59   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 5
Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Hi all Ė Iím in the process of determining whether I want to live aboard at Constitution Marina in Charlestown. Iím very close to making an offer on a meticulously maintained Gulfstar 37. Iím 26 and work in finance in downtown Boston. Initially itíll just be me, but eventually my girlfriend may join.

Iíve been doing a ton of research on the challenges of living aboard in a colder climate, two of the most prominent are heating and condensation. Iím not as worried about heatingÖ Iíll add a second 30A connection to the Gulfstar so Iíll have ample capacity for electric heaters (oil filled, of course!). The boat also has a bulkhead mounted, externally exhausted Force 10 propane heater, which should help. My biggest concern is condensation.

Whatís your approach to dealing with condensation and just how bad is it? My biggest fear is clothes (especially work clothes) getting that mildewey smell. Iíve read about opening lockers and drawers and getting ventilation. I also plan to use a 50 pint dehumidifier.
__________________

__________________
jls095 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2016, 09:04   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29į 49.16í N 82į 25.82í W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 11,660
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Biggest factor to minimize condensation is insulation. Of course minimizing interior humidity is a factor as well.

Not sure if you can totally eliminate the boat smell from clothes. It's not just a mildewy smell but a little bit of diesel, bilge and head all other sources blending together. After a while on the boat you will no longer smell it but others will.

The only cure I ever found for that was ventilation but when it's below freezing outside that's not really an option.
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2016, 13:43   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Alameda, Ca
Boat: Colin Archer, ketch, 50+ft.
Posts: 7
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Those Gulfstars are not designed for static conditions. Get in that boat and GO! However, as a dockside home (and I am speaking from experience) ventilation is so necessary. I suggest installing tiny electric fans in your hanging lockers. Forced ventilation is what you need in your closed spaces.
Dehumidifiers are good, but a heat source that generates dry heat is really important. To help reduce smells, use fresh water to flush your toilet. You'll probably have to plumb that line in yourself but your visitor's nose will thank you. Also if you can minimize the urine in your holding tank, you could eliminate 80% of your odor issues. This might mean a small bucket to hold and dump separately, over the side or ashore. I don't know what your area's waste water rules are, but on the west coast, gray water can go over the side and so can urine, but not in lakes. Currently I have a composting head and I have never looked back. NO odor. Dry compost that I vacuum into my wet dry vac, then into the trash dockside or over the side when at sea. Empty about once every month for three full time persons.
Bon Chance
Roebear
__________________
Roebear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2016, 14:03   #4
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 5,849
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

https://svsmitty.wordpress.com/

He lived in Boston on his boat for a winter. Read up.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2016, 09:23   #5
Registered User
 
SVTwilight's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fairhaven, MA USA
Boat: Cartwright 36 Cutter
Posts: 205
Send a message via Skype™ to SVTwilight
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

I typically see a numbrr of folks living aboard there each winter. Have a chat with your potential neighbors and see what they do....
__________________
SVTwilight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2016, 09:35   #6
Registered User
 
wrwakefield's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wrangell Island, Alaska
Boat: Nauticat 43
Posts: 787
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jls095 View Post
Hi all Ė Iím in the process of determining whether I want to live aboard at Constitution Marina in Charlestown. Iím very close to making an offer on a meticulously maintained Gulfstar 37. Iím 26 and work in finance in downtown Boston. Initially itíll just be me, but eventually my girlfriend may join.

Iíve been doing a ton of research on the challenges of living aboard in a colder climate, two of the most prominent are heating and condensation. Iím not as worried about heatingÖ Iíll add a second 30A connection to the Gulfstar so Iíll have ample capacity for electric heaters (oil filled, of course!). The boat also has a bulkhead mounted, externally exhausted Force 10 propane heater, which should help. My biggest concern is condensation.

Whatís your approach to dealing with condensation and just how bad is it? My biggest fear is clothes (especially work clothes) getting that mildewey smell. Iíve read about opening lockers and drawers and getting ventilation. I also plan to use a 50 pint dehumidifier.
Hi JLS,

You are on track with your thinking. Heat, insulation, ventilation, and dehumidification is the winning combo.

Having lived on boats off-and-on for decades in Alaska, we are asked this question a lot...

Here is our introductory blog post on this topic, with links to several other related blog and forum posts- in case you are interested.

Cheers!

Bill
__________________
SV Denali Rose

Short on opinions; focused on research, facts & experience [yours and ours...]
wrwakefield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2016, 09:39   #7
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,183
Images: 1
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Believe me. Install a heat recovery air exchanger first!
It is the single most important tool against condensation in cold climates.
Air Exchangers - Central ventilation & filtration | Venmar Exchangers
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2016, 10:04   #8
Registered User
 
wrwakefield's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wrangell Island, Alaska
Boat: Nauticat 43
Posts: 787
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Quote:
Originally Posted by deblen View Post
Believe me. Install a heat recovery air exchanger first!
It is the single most important tool against condensation in cold climates.
Air Exchangers - Central ventilation & filtration | Venmar Exchangers
Deblen,

I concur wholeheartedly.

We have a HRV with full house HEPA filter in our house in the interior of Alaska. [Venmar HEPA 3000]

The results over the years are marvelous.

I have been researching off-and-on for a compact, non-metal case unit that would fit in our boat. Have you found such a unit?

The closest I have come so far is a Venmar Destructo 1.0 HRV [The size is reasonable, but it has a less desirable painted steel cabinet, and doesn't have HEPA filtration- which is high on our requirements list...]

Cheers!

Bill
__________________
SV Denali Rose

Short on opinions; focused on research, facts & experience [yours and ours...]
wrwakefield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2016, 10:10   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alert Bay B.C.Canada
Boat: Whitby 42 , Ketch
Posts: 29
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Living on board for 20 years in B.C. Canada. Have Computer Fans in every bulkhead
and locker.Heating with electric oil heater on dock and Dickenson Diesel heater on
anchor.Have a fan in the bilge going 24/7 that replaces the moist cold air 6 times in
24 hrs and pulls the warm air floating on the ceiling in the cabin more evenly through out the boat
Cheers
Sig
__________________
svthreecheers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2016, 10:21   #10
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 5,051
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jls095 View Post
Hi all Ė Iím in the process of determining whether I want to live aboard at Constitution Marina in Charlestown. Iím very close to making an offer on a meticulously maintained Gulfstar 37. Iím 26 and work in finance in downtown Boston. Initially itíll just be me, but eventually my girlfriend may join.

Iíve been doing a ton of research on the challenges of living aboard in a colder climate, two of the most prominent are heating and condensation. Iím not as worried about heatingÖ Iíll add a second 30A connection to the Gulfstar so Iíll have ample capacity for electric heaters (oil filled, of course!). The boat also has a bulkhead mounted, externally exhausted Force 10 propane heater, which should help. My biggest concern is condensation.

Whatís your approach to dealing with condensation and just how bad is it? My biggest fear is clothes (especially work clothes) getting that mildewey smell. Iíve read about opening lockers and drawers and getting ventilation. I also plan to use a 50 pint dehumidifier.
Just as a guess the air output will help with heating from the dehumidifier.
As far as the lockers I think I would leave them cracked or add vents if you can find some that look good. Since the lockers are probably against the hull you might want to considering insulation from the hull. I am not big on Styrofoam since it is poisonous when burnt.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2016, 10:22   #11
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,183
Images: 1
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Heat RecoveryAir exchanger will freshen the air in boat & avoid boaty smells.

Vent the Force10outdoors. Install a power vent over your propane cookstove.
The major combustion product of propane is H2O (condensation)

Power vent your shower during or right after use.

Heat your floors. You will never feel warm if your feet are cold. Also-if your feet are cold,put your hat on-this works anywhere.

Maintaining a normal humidity level is as important as heat is. That is the major job of the Heat Recovery Venmar.

Read the heating,ventilating,humidity section of this book-it applies equally to any enclosed living space.
https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/odpub/pdf/61010.pdf
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2016, 10:35   #12
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,183
Images: 1
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrwakefield View Post
Deblen,

I concur wholeheartedly.

We have a HRV with full house HEPA filter in our house in the interior of Alaska. [Venmar HEPA 3000]

The results over the years are marvelous.

I have been researching off-and-on for a compact, non-metal case unit that would fit in our boat. Have you found such a unit?

The closest I have come so far is a Venmar Destructo 1.0 HRV [The size is reasonable, but it has a less desirable painted steel cabinet, and doesn't have HEPA filtration- which is high on our requirements list...]

Cheers!

Bill
I have an older Venmar in home-think it is metal. Never looked for a plastic one. I live less than 400yds from ocean-we wash salt off house windows & any metal rusts overnight.
They are a fantastic invention-regardless of where you live. For $800Cdn (plus inst) I have fresh air & normal humidity-burn less heating because of the humidity control. They have been law in new home construction in Canada for 20+ yrs.
Some southerners just don't get the connection between humidity & comfort. You can only stop condensation by drying the air &/or blocking warm moist air from contacting cold surfaces.
Cheers/ Len
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2016, 10:48   #13
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,183
Images: 1
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Just as a guess the air output will help with heating from the dehumidifier.
As far as the lockers I think I would leave them cracked or add vents if you can find some that look good. Since the lockers are probably against the hull you might want to considering insulation from the hull. I am not big on Styrofoam since it is poisonous when burnt.
Dehumidifers are good. Heat Recovery Ventilators work on the same principle-both are a backwards air conditioner.
A dehumidifier sucks BOAT air thru it & dries the BOAT air.
A HRV sucks OUTDOOR air in,warms the incoming air by passing it over a heat exchanger that is warmed by outgoing air. The FRESH incoming air,in a cold climate is drier to start with,but the HRV dries it more,just like the dehumidifier.
Both Dehumidifier & HRV have water collection and drains to get rid of the moisture(humidity) sucked from the air.

Similar but different

More HRV info: http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/inpr/s...sufepr_006.cfm
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2016, 11:00   #14
Registered User
 
deblen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Grand Manan,N.B.,Canada N44.40 W66.50
Boat: Mascot 28 pilothouse motorsailer 28ft
Posts: 1,183
Images: 1
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

Quote:
Originally Posted by svthreecheers View Post
Living on board for 20 years in B.C. Canada. Have Computer Fans in every bulkhead
and locker.Heating with electric oil heater on dock and Dickenson Diesel heater on
anchor.Have a fan in the bilge going 24/7 that replaces the moist cold air 6 times in
24 hrs and pulls the warm air floating on the ceiling in the cabin more evenly through out the boat
Cheers
Sig
To quote Mike Holmes-"ventilate,ventilate,ventilate"
__________________
My personal experience & humble opinions-feel free to ignore both
deblen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2016, 08:50   #15
Marine Service Provider
 
lriera's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston
Boat: Tartan 4000 40'
Posts: 3
Re: Prospective Boston Liveaboard Ė Heating and Condensation

We have been living aboard at Constitution Marina in Charlestown/Boston since April 2015 (and have been summer docking here for 7 years). Agree with your approach and the suggestions above. In addition, a problem area tends to be under the V berth mattress. Most weekends we would dry underneath and wedge up the mattress for a day to get some air circulation. Work wardrobes can be challenging for space and wrinkle reasons as much as condensation. I keep some clothes hanging in my car (kind of an embarrassing look) and extra shoes in my trunk. In addition, I was able to claim a closet at work for jackets and blazers which take up a lot of room on the boat. (I work in Biotech research and endeavored to not smell or look like I lived on a boat.) We did not have a problem with odors from the head or otherwise.

Here is a link to our blog which has some entries about winter living aboard considerations: Argon Voyages

Post a comment to the blog if you would like to connect and talk more. Living aboard in the winter was a much more positive experience than I anticipated! We are taking off for a one year plus cruise shortly but will likely be back in Boston ~October 2017.

Linda
__________________

lriera is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
condensation, heating, liveaboard

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
condensation, condensation, aghhhhh!!!!! sthurley Monohull Sailboats 11 02-01-2015 09:48
Best websites for prospective boat buyer Wannabe-007 Dollars & Cents 12 20-11-2012 20:35
Frustrated With Prospective Purchase! terminalcitygrl General Sailing Forum 82 09-09-2012 21:39
Prospective Buyer George Andre Meets & Greets 1 25-05-2010 22:52
Prospective purchasers lament Boracay Monohull Sailboats 70 04-06-2006 10:41


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.