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Old 08-01-2018, 14:56   #46
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

The "new" 20# bottles all have overflow prevention valves in them, which mean they can't hold as much gas as they used to. There are also a number of suppliers who have dropped to 19# and even 17# so they can offer cheap refills.
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Old 08-01-2018, 15:03   #47
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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Originally Posted by Macblaze View Post
Yachting Monthly did a series of videos with a Crash test Boat. The last one was trying to blow it up with propane (LPG). It was much harder than they assumed...

great vid and i would love to hear exactly how much propane was used . I saw 2 one pound camping canisters which is = to a half gallon of LPG to get explosive concentrations in that particular cabin. All in all great demonstration.
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Old 08-01-2018, 18:33   #48
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
The "new" 20# bottles all have overflow prevention valves in them, which mean they can't hold as much gas as they used to.
20# cylinders still hold 20#. The OPD device doesn't stop the flow until the cylinder is overfilled. It is meant to be a safety device, not an operating control.

Portable DOT cylinders (20#, etc), are required by industry regulations (that indirectly have the force of law) to be filled by weight, not by volume, and not to the point where the OPD trips. This isn't always done.

The problem of vendors of exchange cylinders selling short-filled tanks is entirely separate and is just a way for them to make more money. We now have some places filling 20# cylinders to 15#. It's ridiculous.
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Old 08-01-2018, 18:37   #49
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
next time you fill in the states ask if its by weight or volume. ( check your receipts)
everything I can find on propane in Florida is listed as price per gallon
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...RS_SFL_DPG&f=W
I stand right there while they are filling it with the tank right on the scale.
The link you posted shows nothing about how retailers sell it.

Google this search string (us department of transportation propane tank fill by weight) you will get lots of hits stating these tanks must be filled by weight.
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Old 08-01-2018, 18:40   #50
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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Third LPG tanks are filled by the gallon not by weight. ( in the USA )
In the USA we have tanks (ASME certified) and cylinders (DOT certified).

DOT cylinders must be filled by weight, by law, if they are going to be transported in commerce. That is to say, they may not be filled beyond a certain maximum weight, based on the tare weight and water capacity of the cylinder, using a formula or chart.

ASME tanks can be filled in a variety of ways. Some have spitter valves, some have float gauges, that can be used to determine when the tank is full.

In either case the vendor may determine how much to charge for the propane by weight, volume, or by a fixed price for filling a certain size cylinder. I've seen all these in use. If you buy propane by the semi-trailer load, typically it is measured by weight. If you buy it in 20# cylinders, it is usually priced per fill. If you have a tank on a vehicle filled, it is typically measured by volume.
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Old 08-01-2018, 19:06   #51
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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In the USA we have tanks (ASME certified) and cylinders (DOT certified).

DOT cylinders must be filled by weight, by law, if they are going to be transported in commerce. That is to say, they may not be filled beyond a certain maximum weight, based on the tare weight and water capacity of the cylinder, using a formula or chart.

ASME tanks can be filled in a variety of ways. Some have spitter valves, some have float gauges, that can be used to determine when the tank is full.

In either case the vendor may determine how much to charge for the propane by weight, volume, or by a fixed price for filling a certain size cylinder. I've seen all these in use. If you buy propane by the semi-trailer load, typically it is measured by weight. If you buy it in 20# cylinders, it is usually priced per fill. If you have a tank on a vehicle filled, it is typically measured by volume.
its my portable tanks for the boat , the rv, and the bbq. All are filled by volume I stand right there and watch the pump count the gallons .
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Old 08-01-2018, 19:12   #52
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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its my portable tanks for the boat , the rv, and the bbq. All are filled by volume I stand right there and watch the pump count the gallons .
How does that work if you leave a gallon in the tank and they pump in another 4.7g (20lbs.) you now have a highly over pressurized tank. This can't happen if filled by weight.
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Old 08-01-2018, 19:24   #53
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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How does that work if you leave a gallon in the tank and they pump in another 4.7g (20lbs.) you now have a highly over pressurized tank. This can't happen if filled by weight.
the opd valve would not allow this condition to happen. Besides if I was short on cash I just tell them to give me 2 gallons just like if I was getting diesel or gasoline.
Btw the best places to get propane also fill chassis mounted tanks on vehicles and recreational vehicles.
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Old 08-01-2018, 19:28   #54
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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the opd valve would not allow this condition to happen. Besides if I was short on cash I just tell them to give me 2 gallons just like if I was getting diesel or gasoline.
Btw the best places to get propane also fill chassis mounted tanks on vehicles and recreational vehicles.
Everywhere I've ever gone was fee for fill (checked by weight) regardless of how much was put in. The only place I've seen it filled by volume was when filling vehicles.
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Old 08-01-2018, 19:32   #55
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Newhaul, maybe you should get out more!

Since we left the states (last time in 1989) we have had our various propane tanks filled countless times in something like 15 different countries. Each and every time it has been via the open the bleed screw and let the inherent pressure in a storage container push the liquid LPG into the receiving vessel. No pumps have been involved, and no measuring devices showing volume. A very few have used scales, but the vast majority have simply decanted until liquid LPG came out the open vent of the receiving vessel. The price is a flat rate for the size of the tank in most cases. The ones that used scales sometimes would charge only for what was actually transferred.

This is certainly true here in Oz when dealing with small (9kg/20 lb) tanks. At automotive service stations there are pumps for filling LPG fueled cars, and no doubt they work on measured volume, just as you describe. They are never used for our small portable vessels.

Different ships, different long splices, ya know!

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Old 08-01-2018, 19:34   #56
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Everywhere I've ever gone was fee for fill (checked by weight) regardless of how much was put in. The only place I've seen it filled by volume was when filling vehicles.
when I have tanks filled I usually go to gas stations or feed stores. Both fill for vehicles as well as portable tanks . They are also usually priced cheaper.
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Old 08-01-2018, 19:50   #57
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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ALL gas burners, indeed all gas appliances, are rated in BTUs per hour. Doesn’t matter if it’s a single tabletop butane burner in BTUH or a natural gas commercial boiler rated in MBH, which is million BTUs per hour. While on the subject, those ratings are all on the input, not the heat output.
Except for the thousands of gas burners which are rated in MJ/hr...
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Old 08-01-2018, 19:55   #58
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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Except for the thousands of gas burners which are rated in MJ/hr...
easy approx 1100 mj per btu.
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Old 09-01-2018, 04:41   #59
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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Screenshot cut off the top of the page here it is.
I'm not sure what that is supposed to show.

As I said, many places I go in the US use scales or the spitter valve method, even though they quote pricing in nominal gallons.

I'm not saying all are weighed, nor that it is consistent by bottle type, but try taking a small half-full DOT, 1# through forklift 43.5# to a country hardware store or farm place, maybe their flow meter just isn't accurate enough or something, but IME they nearly always work off a scale or just charge a flat price by bottle size.

I'm sure with ASME tanks too heavy to lift you're right.
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Old 09-01-2018, 08:02   #60
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Re: Propane released when lighting burner

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I'm not sure what that is supposed to show.

As I said, many places I go in the US use scales or the spitter valve method, even though they quote pricing in nominal gallons.

I'm not saying all are weighed, nor that it is consistent by bottle type, but try taking a small half-full DOT, 1# through forklift 43.5# to a country hardware store or farm place, maybe their flow meter just isn't accurate enough or something, but IME they nearly always work off a scale or just charge a flat price by bottle size.

I'm sure with ASME tanks too heavy to lift you're right.
fair enough .

Here on the left coast IME it has always been pumped from storage tank to my portable tank and no scales are used.
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