Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-01-2018, 13:51   #16
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 13,487
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

I bet it burns once the burner lites as it is still right there on stove top by the burner
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 14:18   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Boat: GibSea 472
Posts: 353
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Still, it is a good practice to insure that no propane is released during lightup. A piezo igniter starts clicking before any gaz arive to the burner(in fact immediatly when the knob is pushed. When lighthing with manualy, your lighter should be lighted and on the burner BEFORE turning the gas on.
__________________

Elie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 16:20   #18
Registered User
 
Jammer's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minneapolis area
Boat: Morgan 250, 25'
Posts: 751
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Assuming 10 seconds of propane leaking before lighting (which is lots) and a 6000 btu stove top burner, you're looking at 0.00015 pounds of propane. After the burner lights the heat of combustion causes the air around the burner to be drawn towards the burner. More then likely the leaked propane is burned and consumed as air is drawn towards the burner.

Having lived aboard for 13 years now, it's never been an issue.
10 seconds is a lot. I think it's important to realize that beyond a very brief time, an unlit burner is indeed a hazard. I've witnessed a couple of dramatic explosions and fires firsthand when conditions were just wrong, and it doesn't take much fuel. That 0.00015 pounds of propane, mixed with air so that it is in the sweet spot of the LEL-HEL range, and ignited in an enclosed space, is going to make that space into something that is no longer enclosed.

The problem isn't limited to propane. Alcohol will do the same thing if it's vaporized. I had a paper towel with some solvent on it that I threw in the fire once (in a solid fuel stove made out of soapstone). The fire was low and the paper towel didn't light right away. I closed the door and stepped away, and a moment later there was a loud boom and the three heavy soapstone panels on the top of the stove had been blown out of their frames. It took me half an hour to put the stove back together and longer than that to, how shall we say, restore the previously prevailing state of balance and harmony in the marriage. There had to have been all of a teaspoon or so of solvent on the towel.

I recall another incident involving a camping stove that used Coleman fuel. In this particular case I was just a bystander.

Propane wise I did create a rather large fireball one time when the gas grill wouldn't light. The burner was somewhat larger than one on a stove, and there was maybe 10 or 20 seconds of gas escaping before it ignited. Probably a 4' diameter fireball. Got my hair cut the next day for one reason or another as I recall.

The point is that all this stuff is safe if you're prudent and will **** you up the moment you get sloppy. Be careful out there whatever fuel you cook with.
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 16:26   #19
Marine service provider
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 4,801
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
10 seconds is a lot. I think it's important to realize that beyond a very brief time, an unlit burner is indeed a hazard. I've witnessed a couple of dramatic explosions and fires firsthand when conditions were just wrong, and it doesn't take much fuel. That 0.00015 pounds of propane, mixed with air so that it is in the sweet spot of the LEL-HEL range, and ignited in an enclosed space, is going to make that space into something that is no longer enclosed.

The problem isn't limited to propane. Alcohol will do the same thing if it's vaporized. I had a paper towel with some solvent on it that I threw in the fire once (in a solid fuel stove made out of soapstone). The fire was low and the paper towel didn't light right away. I closed the door and stepped away, and a moment later there was a loud boom and the three heavy soapstone panels on the top of the stove had been blown out of their frames. It took me half an hour to put the stove back together and longer than that to, how shall we say, restore the previously prevailing state of balance and harmony in the marriage. There had to have been all of a teaspoon or so of solvent on the towel.

I recall another incident involving a camping stove that used Coleman fuel. In this particular case I was just a bystander.

Propane wise I did create a rather large fireball one time when the gas grill wouldn't light. The burner was somewhat larger than one on a stove, and there was maybe 10 or 20 seconds of gas escaping before it ignited. Probably a 4' diameter fireball. Got my hair cut the next day for one reason or another as I recall.

The point is that all this stuff is safe if you're prudent and will **** you up the moment you get sloppy. Be careful out there whatever fuel you cook with.
and yet millions cook on propane every day with no ill effects.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 17:12   #20
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 13,487
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

And what about all the methane on a boat
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 17:16   #21
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 3,171
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
And what about all the methane on a boat
Easy ..... lay off the chili and keep the pigs outside.
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 17:21   #22
Marine service provider
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 4,801
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
And what about all the methane on a boat
not a problem just sleep on deck on burrito night.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 17:47   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ventura, California, USA
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 189
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Ok propane released when you turn on a 6500 btu burner is .184 oz per second (snip).
???
You missed a step or two in the math.
At .184 ounces per second, the burner would empty a typical boat propane tank in an hour.
Fuel Consumption is calculated using the burner BTUH rating and the burn time. The rating of the burner in your example is 6500 BTUs per HOUR,, not or second. So in one second, that burner would consume 1.80556 BTUs, or a little over one ten-thousandth of an ounce.
Brewgyver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 17:49   #24
Marine service provider
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 4,801
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
???
You missed a step or two in the math.
At .184 ounces per second, the burner would empty a typical boat propane tank in an hour.
Fuel Consumption is calculated using the burner BTUH rating and the burn time. The rating of the burner in your example is 6500 BTUs per HOUR,, not or second. So in one second, that burner would consume 1.80556 BTUs, or a little over one ten-thousandth of an ounce.
I will check but I would assume that would be per minute not second my bad.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 18:35   #25
Registered User
 
Jammer's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minneapolis area
Boat: Morgan 250, 25'
Posts: 751
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
and yet millions cook on propane every day with no ill effects.
Actually, about 500 people a year in the USA alone die from fires and explosions involving cooking equipment. With electric stoves, there are additional fatalities from electric shock, which is not included in the NFPA statistics.

NFPA statistics - Structure fires

http://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/Ne...gFactSheet.pdf
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 18:41   #26
Marine service provider
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 4,801
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
Actually, about 500 people a year in the USA alone die from fires and explosions involving cooking equipment. With electric stoves, there are additional fatalities from electric shock, which is not included in the NFPA statistics.

NFPA statistics - Structure fires

http://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/Ne...gFactSheet.pdf
you mean like this electric stove caused fire?
Child playing with stove blamed for massive Bronx fire that killed 12, officials say | Fox News
500 per how many and by what cooking method ( bet most fuel related are natural gas not propane)
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 18:53   #27
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 3,171
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
Actually, about 500 people a year in the USA alone die from fires and explosions involving cooking equipment. With electric stoves, there are additional fatalities from electric shock, which is not included in the NFPA statistics.

NFPA statistics - Structure fires

http://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/Ne...gFactSheet.pdf
Mostly in the Ozarks right ?
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 19:11   #28
Marine service provider
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 4,801
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
???
You missed a step or two in the math.
At .184 ounces per second, the burner would empty a typical boat propane tank in an hour.
Fuel Consumption is calculated using the burner BTUH rating and the burn time. The rating of the burner in your example is 6500 BTUs per HOUR,, not or second. So in one second, that burner would consume 1.80556 BTUs, or a little over one ten-thousandth of an ounce.
6500 btuh is 108.3 btum I was not quite awake when I did my earlier calcs.
Propane is somewhere around 715 btu per oz. So Brunner would run for about 6.5 min per oz of propane so you see how miniscule a couple seconds of propane from that theoretical
Burner.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2018, 19:25   #29
Registered User
 
Alan Mighty's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Scarborough Boat Harbour, Moreton Bay
Boat: US$4,550 of lead under a GRP hull with cutter rig
Posts: 1,018
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotreVoyage View Post
It is heavier than air so I guess it ends up in the bilge. Overtime will it accumulate, disperse naturally or decay?

It is only a small amount but over time does it accumulate?

Anyone know?
The question has been studied. In the presence of chloride ions, hydroxyl radicals, and standard temperature - the sort of conditions in which you likely sail if you're in a marine environment - you can safely assume oxidation and the formation of products including acetone, acetaldehyde, and so on. And some of it will end up as much as 7 km above you.

For a good starting point, read:

Rosado-Reyes & Francisco, 'Atmospheric oxidation pathways of propane and its by-products: Acetone, acetaldehyde, and propionaldehyde,' in Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol 112, 2007 - you can download that from:

Atmospheric oxidation pathways of propane and its by-products: Acetone, acetaldehyde, and propionaldehyde - Rosado-Reyes - 2007 - Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres - Wiley Online Library
__________________
“Fools say that you can only gain experience at your own expense, but I have always contrived to gain my experience at the expense of others.” - Otto von Bismarck
Alan Mighty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2018, 09:15   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ventura, California, USA
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 189
Re: Propane released when lighting burner

ALL gas burners, indeed all gas appliances, are rated in BTUs per hour. Doesn’t matter if it’s a single tabletop butane burner in BTUH or a natural gas commercial boiler rated in MBH, which is million BTUs per hour. While on the subject, those ratings are all on the input, not the heat output.
__________________

Brewgyver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lease, lighting, propane

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Recommended lighting By Invitation Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 27-03-2006 07:48
Marine lighting source? By Invitation General Sailing Forum 5 27-01-2006 16:24
Lighting Tutorial GordMay Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 12 30-10-2005 13:25
On-line Lighting Course GordMay The Library 0 03-06-2005 12:20
Some Marine Lighting References GordMay Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 5 29-04-2005 18:53



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.