Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

[cheoah]

Originally Posted by scoobert

screw it. let them tell boats to go.
shake the water off your bimini before you leave as a testimony against them.
if i came upon such a town, i would move on. so issue on my part not going into the redneck town in NC.

Awe shucks, we'll miss ya! I recommend South River across the Neuse. Prolly more yankee transplants in Oriental than you realize scoobert, many of whom are riding this guys as$ to get out of their anchorage.

You doing the right thing OP getting out of the harbor. I've never tried anchoring there because of ya'll, although I spend a fair amount of time in Oriental area. I sympathize with the shoulder thing, I'm sure that made it hard, but it is time to free up the mud for other people. Hopefully the French boat moves too. Kind of like hogging a public camp site.

I also appreciate your service, but it isn't relevant to the issue here. But hey, you use what you got, and most of us North Carolinians would rather cut a break to veterans than not. Combat veterans, particularly the older wars which seemed to have more meaning than todays mini-meglomaniac flavor of the day conflicts. I have one patron of my business that survived Omaha Beach in Normandy. I refuse to take his money, and we're talking a fair amount, over $100 a year at least. I am in awe of those men and boys, perhaps idolize them too much, but I'm also appreciative of your service on the Nimitz and wish you well. Glad someone was adroit enough handling this to ask you nicely, and that you see the logic in freeing the space up. I don't blame you for being peeved, particularly at the yankee transplants who have fueled the fire. I only say this tongue in cheek to point out the irony of scooberts statement. Rural North Carolinians, as a group, we tend to resent any kind of control on our land, waterways and freedoms. Me, I believe in "flying right", and I can usually tell when I've worn out my welcome. Exercising my rights at the expense of others convenience is not particularly fulfilling. I'm not saying you've done that intentionally, but moving forward, with many people admitting to have skipped that harbor because of the permanent boats there, would be out of character for a veteran. The number of boats not being able to anchor there for several years adds up to an opportunity cost for the businesses right around the harbor. Not sure how much, but it would be hard to argue otherwise. And of course that's not jsut you...

Hopefully you can still feel welcome out on the creek, and perhaps find ways to give to the community. It is a nice place to live, certainly a nice second home for this mountain farmer, who pays $350 a year in PAmlico County taxes.

Best of luck with the shoulder and a new anchorage-

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper

Boats are ornery labor and cash intensive devices. A boat used in major cruising will show plenty of wear and tear. Similarly a boat neglected in effort or cash will present a crappy appearance. It can be difficult for the casual observer to know precisely what they are looking at. How can a towns person tell the difference between a cruiser and a bum? If a cruiser arrives needing to work to buy parts and a place to re-fit what is worn out then these types of restrictions present adversity.
Can't believe I read all of this huge thread and all the arguments there in. It seems that bums wreak things for cruisers no matter where you are. Last spring I pulled into Eagle Harbor for my 60th birthday celebration at a local restaurant. The tab for that gathering was way north of $1000.00. Most folks think that my boat is beautiful yet we were treated with suspicion and derision by the locals when we motored in by dink. Bums have polluted the entire situation. I can only imagine the reception if I was showing the wear an tear of a long passage.

This really surprises me as this is a very boat friendly town. We have perhaps the only liveaboard anchorage spot in WA because the town fought to retain that. That's why COBI "rents" the harbor from DNS, so we can keep a section for liveaboards that anchor. Lots of other people live on boats in the marinas.

Actually I'm not sure how anyone would even know you came in on a boat, unless you told them.

[SURV69]

AS ALWAY ...

everything is overdone in re-action to "situations".

Certainly, no "reasonable", boater agrees with junk-laden, deteriorating, forever anchored boats crowding anyone's paradise ... as we understand "our" idea of what paradise is.

I certainly don't fault communities for "reacting", but too often the reaction winds up being too heavy-handed and possibly too far reaching(legally), regarding the public's right of usage. It's likely that communities are caught between the rock & hard place trying to figure out what to do.

Then the more close-minded operatives(both rich and poor), step in to exert their rights and interests, leaving the average cruiser in the lurch and suffering the consequences.

I don't understand how so few people(the ones at either ends of the spectrum), actually wind up affecting ... often adversely, those caught in the middle.

When the "real" problem is so obvious, I don't understand why there's not a viable, more realistic answer, short of screwing over many people(cruisers), as a remedy for those oh, so few, problems.

I'm looking forward to cruising from the Great Lakes to the east coast to stay in a "southern", marina for a few months before returning home.

I'm not looking forward to being harassed by communities cause I don't want to pay $30-$50 a night on a retirement budget of $750 per month, and as a veteran I expect to be able to take advantage of any and all federal waters I can ...without harassment.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Boats do drag anchor. I see it all the time when the wind blows. But normally the boats dragging are the weekenders or newer boaters. Most full time anchorouts and full time cruisers have pretty impressive ground tackle.

First of all...I said "on deck inspecting" to mean that long term anchoring (not a permanent overkill mooring) your average ground tackle can fail pretty quick if not inspected regularly...not simple dragging.

And where I come form (pretty much the entire ICW area I've lived along and flew USCG helos...read - flights inspecting storm damage...and also now work salvage in the South Jersey area))....anchor outs out wind up on the beach in a much higher percentage than weekenders because when the weather stinks...the weekenders are back at their dock or never left.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by kim r

sorry but i visited Oriental lately to see if it were someplace i would want to buy a slip- i saw the three boats that are mentioned and decided Oriental is a pigsty- these kinds of liveaboards ruin it for everyone else- if your boat doesn't make the picture a beautiful thing- take yourself out of the picture. Oriental is ruined

That's okay because the last thing we need is another up tight condescending holier than thou person in this town (the few we have make enough noise for many). I love how you planed on renting a slip and care so much about a part of the town you would hardly be looking at (both marinas in the harbor are not live aboard marinas) I would like to thank you for leaving room for another good person to come here. Good luck in finding a good harbor with no 'old looking' boats in it, You will need it. So none of the old fishing boats bothered you, I mean last year one sunk at the dock, just the 3 that towndock readers have made a huge stink about?

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by cheoah

Awe shucks, we'll miss ya! I recommend South River across the Neuse. Prolly more yankee transplants in Oriental than you realize scoobert, many of whom are riding this guys as$ to get out of their anchorage.

You doing the right thing OP getting out of the harbor. I've never tried anchoring there because of ya'll, although I spend a fair amount of time in Oriental area. I sympathize with the shoulder thing, I'm sure that made it hard, but it is time to free up the mud for other people. Hopefully the French boat moves too. Kind of like hogging a public camp site.

I also appreciate your service, but it isn't relevant to the issue here. But hey, you use what you got, and most of us North Carolinians would rather cut a break to veterans than not. Combat veterans, particularly the older wars which seemed to have more meaning than todays mini-meglomaniac flavor of the day conflicts. I have one patron of my business that survived Omaha Beach in Normandy. I refuse to take his money, and we're talking a fair amount, over $100 a year at least. I am in awe of those men and boys, perhaps idolize them too much, but I'm also appreciative of your service on the Nimitz and wish you well. Glad someone was adroit enough handling this to ask you nicely, and that you see the logic in freeing the space up. I don't blame you for being peeved, particularly at the yankee transplants who have fueled the fire. I only say this tongue in cheek to point out the irony of scooberts statement. Rural North Carolinians, as a group, we tend to resent any kind of control on our land, waterways and freedoms. Me, I believe in "flying right", and I can usually tell when I've worn out my welcome. Exercising my rights at the expense of others convenience is not particularly fulfilling. I'm not saying you've done that intentionally, but moving forward, with many people admitting to have skipped that harbor because of the permanent boats there, would be out of character for a veteran. The number of boats not being able to anchor there for several years adds up to an opportunity cost for the businesses right around the harbor. Not sure how much, but it would be hard to argue otherwise. And of course that's not jsut you...

Hopefully you can still feel welcome out on the creek, and perhaps find ways to give to the community. It is a nice place to live, certainly a nice second home for this mountain farmer, who pays $350 a year in PAmlico County taxes.

Best of luck with the shoulder and a new anchorage-

Those old timers had it hard back then they literally would run at trenches full of guns. They gave the most for our freedom

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by cheoah

Awe shucks, we'll miss ya! I recommend South River across the Neuse. Prolly more yankee transplants in Oriental than you realize scoobert, many of whom are riding this guys as$ to get out of their anchorage.

You doing the right thing OP getting out of the harbor. I've never tried anchoring there because of ya'll, although I spend a fair amount of time in Oriental area. I sympathize with the shoulder thing, I'm sure that made it hard, but it is time to free up the mud for other people. Hopefully the French boat moves too. Kind of like hogging a public camp site.

I also appreciate your service, but it isn't relevant to the issue here. But hey, you use what you got, and most of us North Carolinians would rather cut a break to veterans than not. Combat veterans, particularly the older wars which seemed to have more meaning than todays mini-meglomaniac flavor of the day conflicts. I have one patron of my business that survived Omaha Beach in Normandy. I refuse to take his money, and we're talking a fair amount, over $100 a year at least. I am in awe of those men and boys, perhaps idolize them too much, but I'm also appreciative of your service on the Nimitz and wish you well. Glad someone was adroit enough handling this to ask you nicely, and that you see the logic in freeing the space up. I don't blame you for being peeved, particularly at the yankee transplants who have fueled the fire. I only say this tongue in cheek to point out the irony of scooberts statement. Rural North Carolinians, as a group, we tend to resent any kind of control on our land, waterways and freedoms. Me, I believe in "flying right", and I can usually tell when I've worn out my welcome. Exercising my rights at the expense of others convenience is not particularly fulfilling. I'm not saying you've done that intentionally, but moving forward, with many people admitting to have skipped that harbor because of the permanent boats there, would be out of character for a veteran. The number of boats not being able to anchor there for several years adds up to an opportunity cost for the businesses right around the harbor. Not sure how much, but it would be hard to argue otherwise. And of course that's not jsut you...

Hopefully you can still feel welcome out on the creek, and perhaps find ways to give to the community. It is a nice place to live, certainly a nice second home for this mountain farmer, who pays $350 a year in PAmlico County taxes.

Best of luck with the shoulder and a new anchorage-

Also your very right about the geriatric New England invasion here. Many of them seem to be waging a war against fun, and wondering why the town is dying. If they believe that tiny harbor was the source of all their visitors they are sadly mistaken. People used to come here because it was a fun town, and most of them DROVE here. Now the latest battle in the war on fun seems to be the long running push to close the only place open past 10:00 the steamers. Ya great plan you have one bar open past 10:00 and the only one with pool tables, and other games so lets harass him till he shuts his doors.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by kim r

sorry but i visited Oriental lately to see if it were someplace i would want to buy a slip- i saw the three boats that are mentioned and decided Oriental is a pigsty- these kinds of liveaboards ruin it for everyone else- if your boat doesn't make the picture a beautiful thing- take yourself out of the picture. Oriental is ruined

1. i saw the three boats that are mentioned and decided Oriental is a pigsty - Wow, that's kind of a broad generalization about the town, n'est-ce pas?
2. Oriental is ruined - post-apocalyptic wasteland does come to mind, doesn't it?

That's quite dramatic for three scruffy boats, no?

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

Those old timers had it hard back then they literally would run at trenches full of guns. They gave the most for our freedom

As opposed to being blown up on a routine city patrol by an IED????.....and to worry about it every time you strap on your armor and helmet...everyday?

Neither is easy...and as long as you did it right it certainly matters..back then or nowadays...

And just being a vet doesn't mean squat...plenty spent much of their service time either in the brig or one step out of it....doing investigations and organizing captain masts used up a lot of my time as a command executive officer (XO) or Senior Aviator (deployed).

I will go out of my way to help almost anyone, regardless of service or not, rich or not, privileged or not....so I don't easily judge....

As a parent and a leader....you better learn to be "fair" quick...so I do recognize it even though some here think it's an abstract or immeasurable commodity....

I happen to know better because when you are not...there are consequences to pay. I'm also realistic to know life isn't fair all the time...but it doesn't mean we should lower our standards and let "unfair" rule.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by kim r

By the way- there are some very nice businesses and restaurants right where these boats are hanging out - they ruin the experience for everyone - especially when they are in rags and hanging out with their dogs in the park in front of the waterfront- i am so disappointed that they are still there every time i go back-

1. By the way- there are some very nice businesses and restaurants right where these boats are hanging out - true, one of your salient points, actually. And honestly, the lingering boats are scaring off other boaters who would support those businesses.
2. when they are in rags and hanging out with their dogs in the park- wow, you're brutal, lady, I think I like you. Probablement notre visiteurs francaise... But to be honest, you really sound like Marie Antoinette - with that statement - "let them eat cake"? perhaps?

Truly have to wince with your bourgeois commentary. Really rare I agree with GVH, but I think he wins the points on general attitude and kindness.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by psneeld

It's almost hysterical when someone feels so offended...they lash out using the same mentality they protested so strongly against in the beginning.

the "Oriental 4" have just pushed the town, other boaters and certainly cruisers who want to visit there too far.

Here here!

It's fun on this lengthy thread to see the inconsiderate anchorage-hoggers be raised up to heros-of-the-downtrodden status.

When did hogging become a virtue?

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

1. By the way- there are some very nice businesses and restaurants right where these boats are hanging out - true, one of your salient points, actually. And honestly, the lingering boats are scaring off other boaters who would support those businesses.
2. when they are in rags and hanging out with their dogs in the park- wow, you're brutal, lady, I think I like you. Probablement notre visiteurs francaise... But to be honest, you really sound like Marie Antoinette - with that statement - "let them eat cake"? perhaps?

Truly have to wince with your bourgeois commentary. Really rare I agree with GVH, but I think he wins the points on general attitude and kindness.

Keep in mind I buy things at these businesses too, but I buy things 52 weeks out of the year here. LOL @ Probablement notre visiteurs francaise. They are the only ones in the harbor right now with a dog. They might be kind of shady but in the end they are people too. Sometimes when I see some of these arguments I wonder would the busybodies prefer I got rid of my boat and lived on the street.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

Here here!

It's fun on this lengthy thread to see the inconsiderate anchorage-hoggers be raised up to heros-of-the-downtrodden status.

When did hogging become a virtue?

I have not been hogging anything. I am a boat at anchor like many boats before me in that harbor. If you want to talk about hogging look at all the money interests like the fishing, and marina that have both taken a huge piece of the harbor. I know some say the town could not stop that but thats not true there is something called an 'overriding public need'. In this case saving the small harbor from getting even smaller when the town already had 7 marinas in a 10 mile radius could of been framed in that argument. But The marina owners had hand fulls of cash to go around, and the argument that was used is that it would bring even more boaters to the town.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

Keep in mind I buy things at these businesses too, but I buy things 52 weeks out of the year here. LOL @ Probablement notre visiteurs francaise. They are the only ones in the harbor right now with a dog. They might be kind of shady but in the end they are people too. Sometimes when I see some of these arguments I wonder would the busybodies prefer I got rid of my boat and lived on the street.

Point taken.

Curious what messages the French crew are sending home? Living the good life in America perhaps?

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

Point taken.

Curious what messages the French crew are sending home? Living the good life in America perhaps?

Who knows lol Oddly in this fight it is the only one I know of where the french have not retreated lol j/k. Honestly I do know a lot of french who are very good people, who will fight strongly for what they believe in.