Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

No, and I never implied they could. You did.

However, they should be able to require a boat meet health and safety standards. Since several of these boats have dragged, safety of their anchoring is a valid concern.

none of them have dragged. In a 50+ kt wind one of them broke free once (oddly both lines broke the same distance from the bow I think a boat had run their lines over weakening them) but none have dragged. Trust me the mud under that harbor holds like superglue.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

okay so subtract the 2 boats. Also most times here the winds are calm to 10kts I have been anchored out there in that part of the harbor before it's not that bad when you get the rocking and rolling from the river in winds around 10-15kts. there is really a very small window when it becomes bad because the lee from the land on the other side blocks allot too I am using a picture from a day when a number of boats were here. So your saying the picture in unrealistic because once and a while we get a stiff sw wind? because I am looking outside right now and there is no wind like it has been 5 out of the last 7 days. But hey there would be room for a lot more boats if not for that marina that the town let take most of the space. No one is asking them to move.

1. Your time period right now is evening, when the winds are typically calmest. So I call "not valid" on that comment.
2. 10-15 knots in a crowded anchorage is a test of nerves, not truly "not that bad" So I call "not valid" on that statement as well, plus you are on the INSIDE anchorage, not the picture you show. At 10 knots, whitecaps start to form in the Neuse. At 15 those baby whitecaps are full-fledged.
3. The marina is not the town's problem, as someone certainly sold them the land, approved their permits legally, and they and slip-holders have certainly paid for the space they occupy. So I have to call "deflection" and "not relevant" on that claim.

My thing is I admire your freedom but question why you would drag it on so long with the town? And, probably unfairly, you're being lumped in with the French boat which is truly ticking off everyone (uh, shoplifting etc). If it were me, I'd just head to Beaufort, New Bern, Washington, Ocracoke, Belhaven, or somewhere else for a while just to avoid the hassle. Why deal with that crapola?

[ohdrinkboy]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

none of them have dragged. In a 50+ kt wind one of them broke free once (oddly both lines broke the same distance from the bow I think a boat had run their lines over weakening them) but none have dragged. Trust me the mud under that harbor holds like superglue.

OK,maybe it didn't drag. The boat owner is still responsible for breaking free and is still a valid safety concern.

I can walk down the street in nothing but a lime green thong. Legally, I have done nothing wrong. However, I have to be aware that societies norms will be offended and people will give me a negative reaction.

You may have the right to anchor there forever. But don't act high and mighty when people react negatively....you should expect it.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by CatInHand

I imagine that they are paying for the privilege. You, too, could pay to stay at the marina and not have to worry about being bullied out.

I was not bullied out, trust me I am not the type that cows down to bullying. I am moving because after watching this unfold over months having my home called everything from an eye sore to a derelict boat, after having someone actually suggest in a media publication pointing speakers at me in what they referred to as the "Noriega tactic" to quote, unquote "Blast me out" I am moving because after all that didn't work someone had common decency to ask me if I would mind moving. Just think of how much better the world would be if people would of thought of tried simple common decency first.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

Even the town dock admits boats staying for extended periods is nothing new.

Do you have the link where they say this? Not denying it, but you are not sharing the context.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

1. Your time period right now is evening, when the winds are typically calmest. So I call "not valid" on that comment.
2. 10-15 knots in a crowded anchorage is a test of nerves, not truly "not that bad" So I call "not valid" on that statement as well, plus you are on the INSIDE anchorage, not the picture you show. At 10 knots, whitecaps start to form in the Neuse. At 15 those baby whitecaps are full-fledged.
3. The marina is not the town's problem, as someone certainly sold them the land, approved their permits legally, and they and slip-holders have certainly paid for the space they occupy. So I have to call "deflection" and "not relevant" on that claim.

My thing is I admire your freedom but question why you would drag it on so long with the town? And, probably unfairly, you're being lumped in with the French boat which is truly ticking off everyone (uh, shoplifting etc). If it were me, I'd just head to Beaufort, New Bern, Washington, Ocracoke, Belhaven, or somewhere else for a while just to avoid the hassle. Why deal with that crapola?

it's been calm all day like yesterday like almost all last week

and wow your right
AnchorageCam | TownDock.net | Oriental NC News, Weather, Photos

The traffic is worse then the beltway out there

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

Do you have the link where they say this? Not denying it, but you are not sharing the context.

To Mr. Flinn’s point that other boats have stayed for a long time, it is true. TownDock reported that back in June. For example, the steel sailboat Ulysses stayed for more than a year and a half, remaining in the anchorage for months after its owner had left the area. At the time, that boat drew comments for using the harbor as a storage space. There have indeed occasionally been times when a boat would stay for a long stint.

Living on the water I watch the harbor allot I know what is coming in and going out. It's not even the first time the harbor has had 3 long term boats in it. Now the 4th that is a bit much but soon there will be 2 less boats in the harbor, and with luck the french boat will run out of suckers and be on it's way soon too.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

it's been calm all day like yesterday like almost all last week

and wow your right
AnchorageCam | TownDock.net | Oriental NC News, Weather, Photos

The traffic is worse then the beltway out there

Hey, Goth, I'm not saying EVERY day is Hurricane Katrina out there. Are YOU saying that the WIND NEVER EXCEEDS 10 knots? Hello.

Plus, in the pic you showed, that was the OUTER anchorage, you are safely nestled in the INNER anchorage, the concern of the writings in this forum and the letters to Towndock.

You're being deceptive. Again.

I've traveled those waters. For 20 years. Even before Oriental Harbor Marina.

Sorry, I'm not buying your ruse.

Direct question: If it were up to you, what amount of time IS reasonable for the anchorage?

[nimblemotors]

If the real issue is allowing others to anchor, then perhaps those boats must move if ever there are 2 boats at the temp dock. If you are required to move when others arrive, that might be a better rule, although a lot more complicated to 'enforce' than strict time rules.
If the boat can't move, then it is a problem.
I read the article on the French boat, and everyone needs help sometimes,
but you help those who help themselves, and by help themselves I don't mean shoplifting.
They can find some work instead of begging, if you can't make a few hundred dollars in six months you are not really trying.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

To Mr. Flinn’s point that other boats have stayed for a long time, it is true. TownDock reported that back in June. For example, the steel sailboat Ulysses stayed for more than a year and a half, remaining in the anchorage for months after its owner had left the area. At the time, that boat drew comments for using the harbor as a storage space.

Right, but that's the same issue as well. The reaction the Ulysses received is not so different to what you are experiencing or especially the French boat, is it? The town folk wanted Ulysses removed or they were ok with it?

I suspect the former.

[CatInHand]

I don't think Goth is intentionally being deceptive. I think he took advantage of a casual system that is now becoming more formal. It doesn't really matter what the weather, pictures or other boats are doing; the town wants to enforce a short-term stay policy and he's caught in their decision making.

It's kind of "it was fun while it lasted" sort of thing. Maybe he can move back to the creek for a while and come back when cruising season is over.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

1. Your time period right now is evening, when the winds are typically calmest. So I call "not valid" on that comment.
2. 10-15 knots in a crowded anchorage is a test of nerves, not truly "not that bad" So I call "not valid" on that statement as well, plus you are on the INSIDE anchorage, not the picture you show. At 10 knots, whitecaps start to form in the Neuse. At 15 those baby whitecaps are full-fledged.
3. The marina is not the town's problem, as someone certainly sold them the land, approved their permits legally, and they and slip-holders have certainly paid for the space they occupy. So I have to call "deflection" and "not relevant" on that claim.

My thing is I admire your freedom but question why you would drag it on so long with the town? And, probably unfairly, you're being lumped in with the French boat which is truly ticking off everyone (uh, shoplifting etc). If it were me, I'd just head to Beaufort, New Bern, Washington, Ocracoke, Belhaven, or somewhere else for a while just to avoid the hassle. Why deal with that crapola?

Because there are two things you can do when you see something wrong, you can retreat and hope the situation correct's it's self, or you can draw a line in the sand stand up for what you think it right. Now I believe that when you feel you are wronged it's your duty to make a stand for what you believe in. In the end here think about it maybe seeing my side people will give more thought to trying kindness first, and now that this issue is in the forefront, as cruisers who love that freedom, if we all come together, and submit all of our ideas to the town, maybe just maybe the town will change the harbor in ways the benefit the town and all the people that would enjoy stopping here. Personally i don't see limits as a solution.

[Sand Castle]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Oh... and there's a boat looking much like theirs for sale for $3K on Towndock.

I just looked. Not the same boat. French not going anywhere.

They're starting with Oriental and will soon take back the Louisiana Purchase - you'll see.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Sand Castle

Hey, Goth, I'm not saying EVERY day is Hurricane Katrina out there. Are YOU saying that the WIND NEVER EXCEEDS 10 knots? Hello.

Plus, in the pic you showed, that was the OUTER anchorage, you are safely nestled in the INNER anchorage, the concern of the writings in this forum and the letters to Towndock.

You're being deceptive. Again.

I've traveled those waters. For 20 years. Even before Oriental Harbor Marina.

Sorry, I'm not buying your ruse.

Direct question: If it were up to you, what amount of time IS reasonable for the anchorage?

I didn't say every day it's nothing more then a small breeze. But lets get past that.

I don't believe in limits at all. Once again the town and state let a marina put slips in what should of been public waters and created this problem themselves. i don't see anyone asking to limit their stay there.

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

Because there are two things you can do when you see something wrong, you can retreat and hope the situation correct's it's self, or you can draw a line in the sand stand up for what you think it right. Now I believe that when you feel you are wronged it's your duty to make a stand for what you believe in. In the end here think about it maybe seeing my side people will give more thought to trying kindness first, and now that this issue is in the forefront, as cruisers who love that freedom, if we all come together, and submit all of our ideas to the town, maybe just maybe the town will change the harbor in ways the benefit the town and all the people that would enjoy stopping here. Personally i don't see limits as a solution.

It seems that the town is saying that it will be more beneficial to them if there aren't boats permanently anchored in their harbor...

It seems like it would be beneficial to cruisers to know that they can anchor for free for a few days in a harbor that isn't a parking lot.

Do you really see your interests here as benefiting anyone but you? (not being snippy, an honest question)