Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by CatInHand

Monthly fee to anchor in Eagle Harbor is ~$300, as I recall. Pays for water, showers, trash and general police patrol. Also gives you the right to anchor in one place for more than 30 days, which is otherwise not allowed in WA.

Good lord, $300 just to drop the hook for a month is just a little steep. I can stay in a marina with free water, showers, trash, + electric power, internet and a place to park a car for much less then that. In California to boot.

I'm thinking the fine folks at Eagle Harbor are just a little proud of their muddy bottoms. Looks like I'll not be visiting Washington state anytime soon. Not to mention it rains a little there

[Wrong]

Where there are alternative anchorages, most live aboards I've known personally 'move around' simply for a change of scenery and accommodate other boaters also wanting to anchor. Critical however is that a sheltered anchorage is available when hostile weather approaches. In the San Francisco Bay area there is only one - Clipper Cove - where restrictions have been imposed. Very bad for boaters like myself.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Good lord, $300 just to drop the hook for a month is just a little steep. I can stay in a marina with free water, showers, trash, + electric power, internet and a place to park a car for much less then that. In California to boot.

I'm thinking the fine folks at Eagle Harbor are just a little proud of their muddy bottoms. Looks like I'll not be visiting Washington state anytime soon. Not to mention it rains a little there

The rain is the least of a live aboard's concerns. It gets COLD there with ice and snow on the docks! Dangerous. Which is why I'll be joining y'all in the wonderful S.F. Bay area rather than Bellingham Wa., where if it wasn't so cold and nasty in the winter I'd love to stay.

On the trailer tomorrow. Four, maybe five days and I'll be 'home'.

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Eagle Harbour as in Eagle Harbour at Cypress Island?

Bainbridge Island, Washington. 'tis pricey here.

[GothVanhellsing]

[QUOTE=Captain Bill;1339792]Composting takes care of the pumpout issue. I was referring to County personal property tax in my post, not state registration fees. If your mailing address is in Pamlico County you will get a property tax bill. The state sends registration records to the county every year so they'll catch up to you eventually. When I lived there property taxes on boats were a bit more than 1% of their value. The good news is that Boats are a depreciating asset so the tax goes down every year, not up. If you are paying county taxes on your boat then the locals have no right to complain about that. That said, Oriental harbor behind the breakwater is very small and when I tried to get in there with my boat last year there was not enough room around the three "resident" boats for me to anchor. Unlike you I don't have the option of anchoring behind the bridge, so I just left and went elsewhere. It looked to me like all of the "resident" boats had the option of going behind the bridge.

So what gives you a right to use the Harbor to the exclusion of everyone else that has a right to use the harbor? I take it the people of the town had no issue with you living in the creek behind the bridge. It would appear to me that the issue is the one that I just raised, that you and the two other resident boats use the small available space to the exclusion of everyone else, not that you and the two other resident boats are living on your boats in the town of Oriental. Do you suppose that if the town had three public parking places that three individuals would have the right to permanently occupy those spaces to the excusion of all others just because you got your butt there first. I don't think so.

I think you should go back and look at the 2 pictures of the harbor again if you say the 3 boats are blocking it. The harbor thanks to the fishing boats shoals bad in the area my boat is anyways so the last thing you want to do is try parking a bigger boat there. I saw that happens when a bigger boat goes into that area of the harbor 2 months ago when towboat us spent about 5 hours dragging him through the mud to get him out. As for what gives me the right to anchor there. The same thing that gives every person the right to use of any waters in the public trust, The US Constitution, and Maritime law. It's only a matter of time before the states push their attack on our freedom to the point that the federal government will slap them back down like they did last time anchoring rights became an issue.


Thank you for your kind words about my service and keep in mind if not for my tore up shoulder I would still be back on greens creek.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wrong

The rain is the least of a live aboard's concerns. It gets COLD there with ice and snow on the docks! Dangerous. Which is why I'll be joining y'all in the wonderful S.F. Bay area rather than Bellingham Wa., where if it wasn't so cold and nasty in the winter I'd love to stay.

On the trailer tomorrow. Four, maybe five days and I'll be 'home'.

Here I am suffering in 80 degree F with low humidity and abundant sunshine. Plus I'm not paying one cent to anchor.

[AnchorageGuy]

I've been to Oriental. Tried to anchor in the harbor amidst the discussed boats. Seen the issue first hand and wrote about it in our blog and for cruisersnet. It's a bit more than one or two persons rights to anchor where they want. The community as a whole needs to be part of the discussion. This isn't one individuals harbor or issue. This belongs to the community and to the visitors that want to enjoy it. If one group decides to disrupt the community to which they have not been a member and becomes an issue for others that would like to visit and enjoy that same harbor, the community has every right to voice their displeasure. As a result of actions of the few, the many will loose the privileges they knew. That is what has happened in Florida and Washington, an many other places. The moorings, regulations, etc. are a result of a small minority abusing the privilege. Here is our take on the subject, The Trawler Beach House: We Really Like Oriental North Carolina . Chuck

[Morgan3820]

I was anchored at Oriental for the CroakerFest this past July so I was able to view the boats in question. My thoughts at the time were, "wow what a pile of crap". Maybe I'm getting old but all these boat do is give the regular cruisers a bad name and invite legislative solutions that screw everyone up. The same thing is happening in Taylor's Creek, Beaufort, NC. I can't anchor there for all of the derelicts.

So, while you suck up the free internet at the Bean opining about your rights to be a freeloading bum on a derelict boat perhaps you should consider that when everyone around you thinks that you are the problem maybe they are the smart ones. Or at the very least go be a bum in private.

[AnchorageGuy]

It seems our friend has come here a couple of times looking for sympathy towards his plight. Let me pose a question to the members of the board that own dirt dwellings and are not exclusively live-aboards full time. Your home is on a public street. I park my RV in front of your house and decide to live in it there for the next year or so. Would you be as sympathetic towards me, or would you be seeking every means at your disposal to get me and my RV from in front of your house? There really isn't a lot of difference in these two situations. How about if while I'm there my tires go flat and the engine starts to leak oil and run down your drive way? Think about it. Chuck

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Waterwayguy

I've been to Oriental. Tried to anchor in the harbor amidst the discussed boats. Seen the issue first hand and wrote about it in our blog and for cruisersnet. It's a bit more than one or two persons rights to anchor where they want. The community as a whole needs to be part of the discussion. This isn't one individuals harbor or issue. This belongs to the community and to the visitors that want to enjoy it. If one group decides to disrupt the community to which they have not been a member and becomes an issue for others that would like to visit and enjoy that same harbor, the community has every right to voice their displeasure. As a result of actions of the few, the many will loose the privileges they knew. That is what has happened in Florida and Washington, an many other places. The moorings, regulations, etc. are a result of a small minority abusing the privilege. Here is our take on the subject, The Trawler Beach House: We Really Like Oriental North Carolina . Chuck

Not a bad post and as I said in my letter from day one no one had even asked if I would be willing to move until after 4 months of venom spread by the town dock website, with the help of the raisins that hang out and complain all day at the bean. I have a feeling that attitude, along with our insane number of town police (3) in this town of 900 has fueled our ever shrinking number of visitors from both the land and the water over the last 6 years. It's sad that it's like that too, but still they are a small and very boisterous minority, unlike most others here that are truly wonderful friendly people. I have lived here for over 4 years now and the harbor has always had some long term boats in it. It was not until the french boat (red boat) came that anyone here even cared. I will say if you stop in the harbor and you see that boat steer clear of them they are beggars/con artists. Some of the ideas the town has for the harbor are great ideas, but if left unchecked like any government anything they give will come at the cost of your freedom.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Waterwayguy

It seems our friend has come here a couple of times looking for sympathy towards his plight. Let me pose a question to the members of the board that own dirt dwellings and are not exclusively live-aboards full time. Your home is on a public street. I park my RV in front of your house and decide to live in it there for the next year or so. Would you be as sympathetic towards me, or would you be seeking every means at your disposal to get me and my RV from in front of your house? There really isn't a lot of difference in these two situations. How about if while I'm there my tires go flat and the engine starts to leak oil and run down your drive way? Think about it. Chuck

Ya they are trying to attack RV's in the town too even RV's on private property so your point? also it's a moot point because the harbor doesn't have houses on it. Ask the same question if an RV parked on the side of the highway how many people would care. The answer is none.

[Captain Bill]

[QUOTE=GothVanhellsing;1339809]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I think you should go back and look at the 2 pictures of the harbor again if you say the 3 boats are blocking it. The harbor thanks to the fishing boats shoals bad in the area my boat is anyways so the last thing you want to do is try parking a bigger boat there. I saw that happens when a bigger boat goes into that area of the harbor 2 months ago when towboat us spent about 5 hours dragging him through the mud to get him out. As for what gives me the right to anchor there. The same thing that gives every person the right to use of any waters in the public trust, The US Constitution, and Maritime law. It's only a matter of time before the states push their attack on our freedom to the point that the federal government will slap them back down like they did last time anchoring rights became an issue.


Thank you for your kind words about my service and keep in mind if not for my tore up shoulder I would still be back on greens creek.

I agree that everyone has the right to use waters in the public trust, but that means everyone. It seems to me that you three are denying everyone elses right to use the very limied space behind the breakwater.
It's very much like the town's boat parking lot. Just like any other public parking lot sometimes all the spaces will be occupied and you'll have to park elsewhere. I think people have the right to complain when every public spot is now permanently occupied by an RV that someone is living in. This excludes others from enjoying their legitimate right to use this public space. Those of us who have been there know that the outer harbor is no place to be on a blustery day or to dinghy in from when the wind is blowing 20 from the southwest. When I had my boat near there I would occasionally drop the hook in he inner harbor for just a few hours but now I can't. As the old saying goes, your right to throw a punch ends where my nose begins. I suggest sir that your exclusive use of this very limited space is impacting the rights of others. That is why people are complaining and legitimately so.

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by CatInHand

As a landlubber that lives on an island, I can give you my perspective on live-aboards in the harbor.

My taxes pay for your trash removal, your showers, your toilets, your toilet paper, your pumpouts, your water, your fuel spills, your police calls, your rescues (if needed), your fireboats, etc.

Yes, you hike up the hill to buy groceries, but that's about it. If you would like to pay a monthly fee towards maintaining the facilities that you use, and agree to pay the full cost of any cleanup associated with your boat, I'm fine with you staying.

Eagle Harbor does that by charging a monthly fee to boats that anchor for months in a designated area. Your boat also must pass some criteria for seaworthiness and such.

So, y'know, come join us. Just pay for your stay.

In most places there is not free trash removal, showers, toilets (with or without toilet paper), pumpouts, water, fuel spill cleanup, etc. for cruisers. And there already is a requirement to pay for cleanup of illegal spills. If a municipality chooses to provide some of these things for free, its usually because they've decided there is an economic benefit to it. That's because liveaboards do pay for a lot more than groceries. Don't assume every liveaboard is a derelict penny pincher. Most are paying taxes and using a lot fewer services than you are.

[Therapy]

somebody please orient me.

I google mapped and see all sorts of places that seem possible.

Where is this place?

[GothVanhellsing]

[QUOTE=Captain Bill;1339839]

Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing

I agree that everyone has the right to use waters in the public trust, but that means everyone. It seems to me that you three are denying everyone elses right to use the very limied space behind the breakwater.
It's very much like the town's boat parking lot. Just like any other public parking lot sometimes all the spaces will be occupied and you'll have to park elsewhere. I think people have the right to complain when every public spot is now permanently occupied by an RV that someone is living in. This excludes others from enjoying their legitimate right to use this public space. Those of us who have been there know that the outer harbor is no place to be on a blustery day or to dinghy in from when the wind is blowing 20 from the southwest. When I had my boat near there I would occasionally drop the hook in he inner harbor for just a few hours but now I can't. As the old saying goes, your right to throw a punch ends where my nose begins. I suggest sir that your exclusive use of this very limited space is impacting the rights of others. That is why people are complaining and legitimately so.

Maybe you should take that up with the town that let a private marina take 2/3 of the anchorage, including water that should have been protected in the public trust. I don't see any one asking them to move.