Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

[karenmccraw]

FYI, I uploaded an aerial photo of the Oriental Harbor that we took April of 2013. I just can't figure out how to add it to the post! I think here is the link to it....


Oriental Harbor - Orinetal, NC Cruisers & Sailing Photo Gallery

[boatman61]

Hmmm... changed a little since my time there... breakwater seems to have been extended to protect the marina...

[Morgan3820]

Originally Posted by ShaktisBoy

Bad behavior? The OP was simply putting out a warning that you may find it difficult to exercise your anchoring rights in Oriental NC, and that you may experiance contempt from the locals. I think you need to reread this thread. He moved when asked politely. He also mentioned he spent a great deal of time anchored elsewhere nearby. So i find your statement to be un-called for. You added nothing to this discussion then thread drifted into EMT and Nursing under compensated career paths. Give me a break.

As a local with skin in the discussion I disagree. How'bout you invite him to move down with you in WPB?...I thought so...

[johnmcntsh]

I do not mean to start an argument here but what does being a veteran have to do with this thread? I am also a veteran but do not find it necessary to bring into conversations which do not have anything to do with my service. If the problem is unfairness, it is unfair for all citizens. Not just veterans.

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

In most places there is not free trash removal, showers, toilets (with or without toilet paper), pumpouts, water, fuel spill cleanup, etc. for cruisers. And there already is a requirement to pay for cleanup of illegal spills. If a municipality chooses to provide some of these things for free, its usually because they've decided there is an economic benefit to it. That's because liveaboards do pay for a lot more than groceries. Don't assume every liveaboard is a derelict penny pincher. Most are paying taxes and using a lot fewer services than you are.

Buy a boat in Washington and pay 'use" tax. Visit for more than 60 days (possible extension an additional 60 days) and you need to register in WA, Pay the difference in Use tax and the registration excise tax yearly.

The point being is that Washington does collect taxes from boaters. Both from the boat directly and in the sales tax on most non-food items and services.



Use tax rates

Use tax is calculated at the same rate as the sales tax at the purchaser’s address. In addition to the general use tax rate, vehicles are charged an additional 0.3% motor vehicle sales/use tax.

Seattle's use tax is 9.5%

Plus in Washington you pay an excise tax yearly on registration.

Vessel excise tax: .5% of taxable value of vessel ($5 minimum )

[CatInHand]

Originally Posted by evm1024

Buy a boat in Washington and pay 'use" tax. Visit for more than 60 days (possible extension an additional 60 days) and you need to register in WA, Pay the difference in Use tax and the registration excise tax yearly.

The point being is that Washington does collect taxes from boaters. Both from the boat directly and in the sales tax on most non-food items and services.



Use tax rates

Use tax is calculated at the same rate as the sales tax at the purchaser’s address. In addition to the general use tax rate, vehicles are charged an additional 0.3% motor vehicle sales/use tax.

Seattle's use tax is 9.5%

Plus in Washington you pay an excise tax yearly on registration.

Vessel excise tax: .5% of taxable value of vessel ($5 minimum )

Use/sales tax is once, and not applicable if you paid tax in another state. Registration fee is minimal for most anchor out type liveaboards (low cost vesels) and doesn't pay for their services. Most anchor-out liveaboards don't make many purchases beyond food. (in this area)

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by CatInHand

Use/sales tax is once, and not applicable if you paid tax in another state. Registration fee is minimal for most anchor out type liveaboards (low cost vesels) and doesn't pay for their services. Most anchor-out liveaboards don't make many purchases beyond food. (in this area)

So your complaint is that the tax they do pay is too low.... Not that they don't pay.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Morgan3820

First off, your veteran status has nothing to do with this discussion of your behavior. But since you brought it up, I find invoking your past to engender sympathy for your bad behavior to be disingenuous. I work with active duty Marines and most are fine people but I think that they would not approve. Service men and women today are extremely well compensated, which is fine. But there are plenty of other Americans that spend their entire careers serving the nation in difficult poorly paid capacities. EMTs see way more broken bodies than most military but make less than a burger flipper and receive little public adulation. Then there are nurses, firefighters, ...

My Behavior? What when after 4 months of a smear campaign someone in this very small town finely politely asked if I would move and I agreed to move? How does that constitute bad behavior? If someone had thought of that really insane idea of asking me nicely 4 months ago my boat would have been moved back then. See a pattern there? I am not going to get into an argument that has me defaming EMT's Nurses or anyone else for that matter. You know there are other threads you can troll right?

[GothVanhellsing]

If people want to use the tax argument what about people who rent? They pay no taxes, also lets not forget income tax here.

[Boatguy30]

Doesn't the landlord pay rent? In many cases i higher amount per person than a homeowner especially here in FL or other states that give a homestead exemption.

I own rentals and don't begrudge my tenant the rights of all other.

[CatInHand]

But the owner of the property pays rent. If you want to live somewhere without paying for the services you use, feel free, but do it away from the community. If you want to anchor in a harbor and be part of a community, that includes contributing to the functioning of the community. For most people that means financial contributions. My bf was able to extend his stay by volunteering. It just depends on if you are demanding something for free, or being part of the community.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I just want to be clear that when I had the issue getting into the harbor I was completely unaware the the three boats in question were semi-permanently moord there and that there was any controversy over their presence. I simply pulled in the harbor, decided there wasn't any place I would feel safe anchoring and left. I find it hard to believe that they got 10 to 14 boats anchored behind the breakwater. My boat has a lot of windage and like I said it was blowing pretty well that day. Knowing how soft the bottom is I wanted some scope on the rode. If it had been a calm day I might have dropped the hook on a short rode or simply anchored outside of the breakwater. I was not angry with any of the people anchored in the harbor and am not now. When I looked at Towndock and researched this I found that some of the rational arguements that were being made were made about the loss of business from transient cruisers. When I thought about my experience when I passed through or should I say by Oriental a few months ago, this was what happened so whn this came up on the forum I simply stated this because it was not a "made up" issue by the locals. That said, if the three boats had only been there for the day the result would have been the same. I would guess that the local marina owners don't want much anchorage space as it would impact their slip rentals.

I don't know the complete history of the Oriental Marina and how they got use of the bottom, but If I remember correctly the Marina is a dockuminium and the slips were outrageously priced since in fact you on nothing. You get to pay taxes to the county like you own something, but you really don't. I looked at putting my boat in there in 2006. My guess is that the county/city figured out a way to increase it's tax base and permittd the project.

They anchor all the way out to the channel that goes under the bridge. One thing I gotta say about Oriental is the holding here is like being superglued to the bottom.

[Boatguy30]

The problem is (especially in FL) the waterfront homeowners are getting soaked. The houses across the street from me on the ICW pay something like 15-30K a year in taxes. Mine are WAY less in the exact same neighborhood with only a waterview. Those guys sit there and think ALOT i would guess about all that money and see all those guys livin' it free and easy on their boats.

Everyone makes choices, but you can see where the problem comes from. I just hope we don't get too crazy and ban overnight anchoring everywhere.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Doesn't the landlord pay rent? In many cases i higher amount per person than a homeowner especially here in FL or other states that give a homestead exemption.

I own rentals and don't begrudge my tenant the rights of all other.

Yes he does, but that's him not the people renting. I find it funny that people look at any tax as being fair to be honest. most of it gets wasted in cronyism anyways.

[GothVanhellsing]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

The problem is (especially in FL) the waterfront homeowners are getting soaked. The houses across the street from me on the ICW pay something like 15-30K a year in taxes. Mine are WAY less in the exact same neighborhood with only a waterview. Those guys sit there and think ALOT i would guess about all that money and see all those guys livin' it free and easy on their boats.

Everyone makes choices, but you can see where the problem comes from. I just hope we don't get too crazy and ban overnight anchoring everywhere.

No one forced anyone to buy anything they could of bought a boat and not that house on the shoreline, and then enjoyed the savings. But with the house on the water it normally comes with a lot of other things like water access that you can add your own private dock, fishing from the shore, a yard you can do things in like grow a garden in...