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Old 14-09-2013, 23:12   #61
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Earlier there was mention of the tax differences paid by water front land owners and people on boats that can be seen from their property. I must say I have a real pet peeve with the same issue here in South Florida. There was a time when access to the water was much easier. Now days the ultra wealthy have purchased the atlantic Ocean, the ICW and most of the canals and walled off those areas for their own use. The only way for a non millionair to enjoy the ocean is by going to one of the common folk designated areas or by boat. You used to be able to surf up and down the east coast and even park near the breaks. Now? Not so much. That my CF friends is the real injustice in my eyes. Me thinks we all pay allot of taxes and fees for the fuel we buy and the registrations we must renew every year. Just considering the shear number of boats on the water leads me to believe there is more than enough money to remove and dispose of the the relitively small percentage of derelict boats. My guess is the money isnt really going to boat related activities but is being diverted into other dirt dwelling money pits. As far as Oriental NC goes im not familiar with the harbor but if there is any truth to the statement that a large portion of the anchorage was sold to a private for profit marina then Oriental has some responsibility in this situation. Perhaps they should dredge an area the size of the area they sol, and protect it with some sort of break water, "by the way who profited from that sale?" Seems to me Oriental stole from all of us for just a few to profit. I know its bad Karma but sometimes I think a good ol CAT 5 hurricane scrubing off the east coast is just what the doctor ordered. Maybe then we could all have access again. At least until the beach front homeowners get their in the pocket senator or house representive to rebuild the area for their exclusive use using yours and my money. Rant over
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Old 14-09-2013, 23:54   #62
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing View Post
Ouch $300.00 that is more then I paid for a slip in a marina. It included all that plus internet, and access to a small clubhouse.
Right. Boot Key Harbor is the perfect example of what this leads to.

Mooring balls ($300/mo) take up all but a tiny anchorage, a very long way from the dinghy dock. If you still decide to anchor, the fees to use overcrowded dinghy docks are now $225/mo. This includes one handed showers and one parking space.

Plenty of "derelict" looking boats on mooring balls. I guess $3600 a year makes them look better than they did on the hook.

At $75/mo difference between dinghy dock and mooring ball, the rowing distance/dinghy gas cost almost assures a sparse anchorage.

Marathon is great, and so is Boot Key Harbor, but anchoring there has been all but eliminated. I pay less for a slip in nice marinas than they charge to tie up a dinghy and take a shower. Also, knowing they have 226 moorings and sell additional dinghy dock passes, they don't have nearly the space to accommodate that many cruisers at peak hours.

2 years ago the dinghy dock fees were $135/mo , in 2012 they jumped by a whopping 2/3 all at once, to $225. This was a clear economic message to anchoring cruisers.

An anchorage that was once full of boats anchored for free is now less full of boats paying $300/mo. We will be back this winter and will anchor, and wonder what it might cost by then.



'
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Old 15-09-2013, 00:22   #63
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

The only comment I would make is that the word "right" is a strong word, with specific meanings.

Using it incorrectly does not help your case.
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Old 15-09-2013, 06:16   #64
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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First off I am a disabled war veteran who served this country in the 91 gulf war, on the USS Nimitz CVN-68 and even in countries filled will people who hate Americans I have never been treated with such malice, defamation, slander, false accusations and contempt as I have been by the fine people who run this website.
First off, your veteran status has nothing to do with this discussion of your behavior. But since you brought it up, I find invoking your past to engender sympathy for your bad behavior to be disingenuous. I work with active duty Marines and most are fine people but I think that they would not approve. Service men and women today are extremely well compensated, which is fine. But there are plenty of other Americans that spend their entire careers serving the nation in difficult poorly paid capacities. EMTs see way more broken bodies than most military but make less than a burger flipper and receive little public adulation. Then there are nurses, firefighters, ...
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Old 15-09-2013, 06:34   #65
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Bad behavior? The OP was simply putting out a warning that you may find it difficult to exercise your anchoring rights in Oriental NC, and that you may experiance contempt from the locals. I think you need to reread this thread. He moved when asked politely. He also mentioned he spent a great deal of time anchored elsewhere nearby. So i find your statement to be un-called for. You added nothing to this discussion then thread drifted into EMT and Nursing under compensated career paths. Give me a break.
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Old 15-09-2013, 06:49   #66
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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First off, your veteran status has nothing to do with this discussion of your behavior. But since you brought it up, I find invoking your past to engender sympathy for your bad behavior to be disingenuous. I work with active duty Marines and most are fine people but I think that they would not approve. Service men and women today are extremely well compensated, which is fine. But there are plenty of other Americans that spend their entire careers serving the nation in difficult poorly paid capacities. EMTs see way more broken bodies than most military but make less than a burger flipper and receive little public adulation. Then there are nurses, firefighters, ...
Thanks for that, here in Florida "veterans" seem to be handled with kid gloves and you are always seeing articles about them in Southwinds or local papers regarding anchoring. Always implying they have some extra special right to anchor. whilst a grateful nation appreciates their service War Pensions is the only special allowance awarded under the constitution.

My grandfather was a WWII veteran, my father on active duty in SE asia in the early 60s. I myself had "better things to do" like the last 3 generations of Romney males. Whilst my father is technically a Vietnam vet he never saw any action and has never attempted to get any special recognition in society. My grandfather was truly disabled in WWII and died young related to his disabilities. He was to proud to even get a handicapped tag for his truck.

These days, you see plenty of folks with permanent handicap tags park right next to the store and casually stroll right on in. I guy was at a recent county meeting claiming anyone with a handicap tag is guaranteed free parking in the local (pay to park for honest rubes) city garage during concerts. He seemed to imply he would be parking his car in the garage all weekend to prove a point even though he lived nearby and wasn't attending the concert.
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Old 15-09-2013, 07:04   #67
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pirate Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Okay... Oriental is a nice place to stop but since the marina was built the anchorage has shrunk a lot... a fact is very few boats passing through even consider using the anchorage for a couple of reasons...
A/ There's only room for 6 boats at the most in good weather.. and poor holding in any real wind.. so most move on in short order.
B/ There's a limit on draft except for close to the entrance and dredged channel for the Shrimpers...
Most visitors chose to tie up 2 sometimes 3 deep at the dock in front of the 'Bean'.... but even this can be a problem for boats with more than 5' draft as I found out when the sheriff came hunting me coz I'd exceeded the 48hrs in 30 days you can dock there... when the wind blows strong the tides go out and don't come back for days and you are grounded.... tows don't work short of ripping of the keel.
Took 7 days before a wind shift let the water back in..
To my mind this is a political thing to close the anchorage and make more folk use the marina... rather than a blight on the view.. from my memory the area fronting the anchorage is a jumble of disused work shacks from the old days... unless there's been major redevelopment over the last few years...
Towndock.net was becoming a growing force in my time there...
Its a good site but it does have its own agenda and cares little for others rights and facts in its reporting... and as I discovered refuse's to correct or retract stuff its put out...


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Old 15-09-2013, 07:05   #68
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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My boat was not in the harbor in the winter, something that is even document on the website that started all this (after it was pointed out). But I can tell you the number of boats that were effected was very few, and I am sorry your was one of them. 99% of the time the harbor here is a ghost town. In the spring cruising season the harbor was full for about 2 weeks with 10 to 14 boats each day, and room for more So if you do the math and say most boats stay in the harbor 2 to 5 days my boat effected less then 10 others that could of pulled into it's spot in peek season. I can understand what you are saying though and this week when I move one of the other boats is moving as well. I never even wanted to move back into the harbor I like it on greens creek. What really bothers me is the way many have treated us in the last 4 months, and now unless we all watch the town could strip away rights that we should all enjoy. Like I said in that 4 month time not one person politely asked me to move. It's not like this is the DC metro area here as you know this town is smaller then most farming communities so it's not like finding me would have been that hard.
I just want to be clear that when I had the issue getting into the harbor I was completely unaware the the three boats in question were semi-permanently moord there and that there was any controversy over their presence. I simply pulled in the harbor, decided there wasn't any place I would feel safe anchoring and left. I find it hard to believe that they got 10 to 14 boats anchored behind the breakwater. My boat has a lot of windage and like I said it was blowing pretty well that day. Knowing how soft the bottom is I wanted some scope on the rode. If it had been a calm day I might have dropped the hook on a short rode or simply anchored outside of the breakwater. I was not angry with any of the people anchored in the harbor and am not now. When I looked at Towndock and researched this I found that some of the rational arguements that were being made were made about the loss of business from transient cruisers. When I thought about my experience when I passed through or should I say by Oriental a few months ago, this was what happened so whn this came up on the forum I simply stated this because it was not a "made up" issue by the locals. That said, if the three boats had only been there for the day the result would have been the same. I would guess that the local marina owners don't want much anchorage space as it would impact their slip rentals.

I don't know the complete history of the Oriental Marina and how they got use of the bottom, but If I remember correctly the Marina is a dockuminium and the slips were outrageously priced since in fact you on nothing. You get to pay taxes to the county like you own something, but you really don't. I looked at putting my boat in there in 2006. My guess is that the county/city figured out a way to increase it's tax base and permittd the project.
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Old 15-09-2013, 07:07   #69
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

I am starting a new thread on this in regards to the Republican legislators that are working to strip boaters rights. Small gonvernment only for the rich!
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Old 15-09-2013, 07:16   #70
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

screw it. let them tell boats to go.
shake the water off your bimini before you leave as a testimony against them.
if i came upon such a town, i would move on. so issue on my part not going into the redneck town in NC.
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Old 15-09-2013, 07:37   #71
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Seems the town business people who claim to be losing sales due to the anchor outs are beating the wrong brush. They should be pressing whoever controls the town dock to permit boaters to tie there for a specific period of time. Also, the marina could be asked to do this. Time enough to do their business and then, if the boater wants to anchor in a suitable spot they can. Or, they can just move on.
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Old 15-09-2013, 07:46   #72
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pirate Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Trouble is the marina's only 50% useable for anything over a 4'draft... and I've seen boats unable to leave even on the outer berths... it seems more suited to power than sail..
If sailors want to achieve anything... sail on by... its only another 5hrs to Beaufort with places one can anchor along the way... all they have is a dying shrimping industry, boatyards and chandlers/brokers...
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Old 15-09-2013, 08:14   #73
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Earlier there was mention of the tax differences paid by water front land owners and people on boats that can be seen from their property. I must say I have a real pet peeve with the same issue here in South Florida. There was a time when access to the water was much easier. Now days the ultra wealthy have purchased the atlantic Ocean, the ICW and most of the canals and walled off those areas for their own use. The only way for a non millionair to enjoy the ocean is by going to one of the common folk designated areas or by boat.
(Just a sidebar to mention that our governments up here have been working to increase water access. When a new shoreline development goes in, the developer is usually armtwisted by bylaws to provide for public access in the form of a path or boardwalk. But then again we're not afraid of responsible government action )
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Old 15-09-2013, 08:29   #74
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pirate Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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(Just a sidebar to mention that our governments up here have been working to increase water access. When a new shoreline development goes in, the developer is usually armtwisted by bylaws to provide for public access in the form of a path or boardwalk. But then again we're not afraid of responsible government action )
Yeah... great for dirt folk... but how many of those are you allowed to tie a dinghy to...
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Old 15-09-2013, 08:33   #75
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Yeah... great for dirt folk... but how many of those are you allowed to tie a dinghy to...
Fair point. I will mention that in the Canadian part of the 1000 islands, a number of the islands were retained by the government, and docks, tables, and washrooms were put in for the use of transient boaters (a small fee is collected)
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