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Old 22-09-2013, 07:26   #676
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

a mooring field there would be a hurricane disaster ! and ruin the very expensive ships there and boats in the slips in the body of water
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Old 22-09-2013, 07:39   #677
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Boats are ornery labor and cash intensive devices. A boat used in major cruising will show plenty of wear and tear. Similarly a boat neglected in effort or cash will present a crappy appearance. It can be difficult for the casual observer to know precisely what they are looking at. How can a towns person tell the difference between a cruiser and a bum? If a cruiser arrives needing to work to buy parts and a place to re-fit what is worn out then these types of restrictions present adversity.
Can't believe I read all of this huge thread and all the arguments there in. It seems that bums wreak things for cruisers no matter where you are. Last spring I pulled into Eagle Harbor for my 60th birthday celebration at a local restaurant. The tab for that gathering was way north of $1000.00. Most folks think that my boat is beautiful yet we were treated with suspicion and derision by the locals when we motored in by dink. Bums have polluted the entire situation. I can only imagine the reception if I was showing the wear an tear of a long passage.
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Old 22-09-2013, 07:55   #678
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

As this thread approaches 700 posts, I will say that, as I have followed the entire thing, there are a few interesting points.

First is how incredibly silly it is for anyone to blame this on the town for this problem. That somehow the reason you have to be so inconsiderate to the rest of us (especially those weekend boaters that really enjoy visiting Oriental for very short visits) is because of the building of a marina. I have been visiting Oriental my whole life and have seen what proactive development has done to tourism in this town. It didn't become a premier stop on the ICW on location alone. It has worked hard to attract and keep its visitors.

So now, since we (me) have virtually no shot at finding a nice spot to anchor, we should blame the town and not you. As a regular boater, it's one thing to show up and find that others have gotten there before you and you have to improvise into Greens Creek or something. That's actually part of the excitement and adventure of boating. Perhaps sneak yourself among them and enjoy a day in a tight anchorage with people that enjoy the same sort of adventurous spirit. It's another thing to already know that there are immovable and uncooperative objects there that have not even anchored in such a way to allow you to anchor among them (stern anchors). If you want to call that entitlement? Be my guest.

Moreover, they don't even have enough interest (or self respect) to keep their vessels in good shape. (sorry... that last bit was a bit elitist because I spend so much time and effort to keep my boat in tip-top shape that I often poo-poo the people that can just allow their boats to rot beneath their feet) There is a saying that if you can't afford to tip, don't eat out. If you can't keep your boat in at least a minimal state of good repair, you have no business being a boater. Even if it's your home. If you are going to live a trailer park lifestyle, that's fine, put it in a trailer park. But don't expect a nice neighborhood to put up with someone parking a trailer among high-end houses.

Second is that this thread was placed in the Liveaboard forum where the OP would hope to garner as much sympathy as he could. It would be interesting to see how this thread would do in a more general forum where there are a LOT more "cruisers" and weekend warriors that, I suspect, would oppose your stance with even more passion than those of us who have just happened to stumble across this thread.

I will continue to commend the OP for doing the right thing once asked, but am still a little confused why he needed his ego stroked in order to do it and how he possibly could think that Town Dock is making some kind of organized campaign against him by just printing letters by its readers.

While farting in church may not be against the rules, it sure is rude and don't be surprised when someone finally stands up and asks you to stop or leave,
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Old 22-09-2013, 07:59   #679
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pirate Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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... It seems that bums wreak things for cruisers no matter where you are.

That's it in a nutshell Cap.

And yet towns continue to enact restrictions that affect us all rather than just deal with the bums. What's up with that?

These three boats are all pooping in the harbor. It's not OK. OH ya, maybe not the OP.

Over in Beaufort, a real town with businesses, etc,, the problem is magnified 100-fold. Wonder how we can get the watercops to enforce the laws on the books.
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Old 22-09-2013, 08:08   #680
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Over in Beaufort, a real town with businesses, etc,, the problem is magnified 100-fold. Wonder how we can get the watercops to enforce the laws on the books.
Don't think Beaufort isn't aware, or trying to correct, this problem either. I suppose the difference, however, is that the tide and current there is strong enough and the water circulated enough that boat dumping waste there has a better chance of being flushed out to sea and "treated" by the life cycle of the ocean. In Oriental, the problem is multiplied by the still water and the bay it sits in.
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Old 22-09-2013, 08:18   #681
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pirate Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Don't think Beaufort isn't aware, or trying to correct, this problem either. I suppose the difference, however, is that the tide and current there is strong enough and the water circulated enough that boat dumping waste there has a better chance of being flushed out to sea and "treated" by the life cycle of the ocean. In Oriental, the problem is multiplied by the still water and the bay it sits in.

Yepper.

One thing I've noticed is that at the main dinghy dock in Beaufort, there used to be trash cans, generally in hard use by liveaboards. These have recently been replaced by recycle bins for cans, plastic, and glass. Nutin for actual trash. Gotta wonder about the fallout from that.
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Old 22-09-2013, 08:19   #682
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Florida has already gone through the cycle...first there was open water everywhere, then boatbums arrived in droves, evictions began, grandiose anchoring laws enacted, then courts open generic free anchoring with strings attached, most towns now have reasonable anchoring laws and more mooring fields going in.

Freedoms repressed? Look back and see why....history repeats itself to those that don't learn from it.
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Old 22-09-2013, 08:29   #683
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Florida has already gone through the cycle...first there was open water everywhere, then boatbums arrived in droves, evictions began, grandiose anchoring laws enacted, then courts open generic free anchoring with strings attached, most towns now have reasonable anchoring laws and more mooring fields going in.

Freedoms repressed? Look back and see why....history repeats itself to those that don't learn from it.
Yes Sir! I saw it then and now in Miami. Marathon, IMHO, has taken it to the extreme with that $22 a day dinghy dock rate. Pricing | City of Marathon Official Website
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Old 22-09-2013, 08:44   #684
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

YES. its the bums fault. Sweet. So by extension its my fault since I am a lowly sub $500 a month cruiser/ bum boat. Lets save the water and anchorages for rich and well to do, that own boat over $200k only.

Maybe put in gated anchorages to keep the riff raff out. The cruising life should only be done by the upper crust. Those pesky low life's, they spoil everything.

That's the gist of what I'm hearing. For folks with money, you sure do whine a lot. Just a bunch of grumpy white guys. Must be Republicans.

Gee the boats in question, well two out of three, look to be in pretty good condition. Hardly trailer trash at all.

Ya'll keep bitch'in to each other. I'm going sailing!
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Old 22-09-2013, 08:58   #685
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Talking Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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YES. its the bums fault. Sweet. So by extension its my fault since I am a lowly sub $500 a month cruiser/ bum boat. Lets save the water and anchorages for rich and well to do, that own boat over $200k only.

Maybe put in gated anchorages to keep the riff raff out. The cruising life should only be done by the upper crust. Those pesky low life's, they spoil everything.

That's the gist of what I'm hearing. For folks with money, you sure do whine a lot. Just a bunch of grumpy white guys. Must be Republicans.

Gee the boats in question, well two out of three, look to be in pretty good condition. Hardly trailer trash at all.

Ya'll keep bitch'in to each other. I'm going sailing!
No,no,no....my point was that even if you are not poor you will be treated like an undesirable. Money is not the issue. EVERYBODY on this forum knows you are a cruiser in the best sense... You have an expertly rebuilt purple Yanmar. Sail on SC.
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Old 22-09-2013, 09:06   #686
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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YES. its the bums fault. Sweet. So by extension its my fault since I am a lowly sub $500 a month cruiser/ bum boat. Lets save the water and anchorages for rich and well to do, that own boat over $200k only.

Maybe put in gated anchorages to keep the riff raff out. The cruising life should only be done by the upper crust. Those pesky low life's, they spoil everything.

That's the gist of what I'm hearing. For folks with money, you sure do whine a lot. Just a bunch of grumpy white guys. Must be Republicans.

Gee the boats in question, well two out of three, look to be in pretty good condition. Hardly trailer trash at all.

Ya'll keep bitch'in to each other. I'm going sailing!
Since they seem to be the ones who can't share the waterways, yes, it is thier fault.

No one has said they can't have fair use of the waterways. It's the abuse that rankles.
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Old 22-09-2013, 09:24   #687
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

It's almost hysterical when someone feels so offended...they lash out using the same mentality they protested so strongly against in the beginning.

If the SAME people in the harbor, whether flat broke or on $500 a month incomes, bummed some paint (I wonder where that word came from), took more pride in themselves than has been reported, and moved once and awhile...they would probably be admired "cruisers" for making do with what they have.

I have been places where people lived in dirt floor huts that are religiously swept and mended...I would never think to look down on them...it's all about attitude and I think somewhere along the line that the "Oriental 4" have just pushed the town, other boaters and certainly cruisers who want to visit there too far.

I don't think there's THAT many "rich" cruisers here that have the beef with permanent anchor outs....so to keep up the "rich" and "elitist" calling...just shows lack of respect in the other direction.
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Old 22-09-2013, 09:30   #688
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

I have one (hopefully) last point.....

If these "anchorouts" haven't moved in awhile...meaning had their ground tackle onboard to be inspected...aren't they a hazard to ALL in the harbor including dockowners, commercial fishermen, etc...etc?

If on one crappy night I was visiting and they broke loose and damaged my liveaboard...would THAT be right/fair?

If/when that happens...I doubt there will be much of a time delay before something more drastic happens because 'accidents" under circumstances like this now has become will be way more visible and get way more people involved than I think ANY of us would want.
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Old 22-09-2013, 09:55   #689
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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No,no,no....my point was that even if you are not poor you will be treated like an undesirable. Money is not the issue. EVERYBODY on this forum knows you are a cruiser in the best sense... You have an expertly rebuilt purple Yanmar. Sail on SC.
Oh I agree that to the land based folk, they don't see the difference between the rich and poor boater. all boaters are suspect.

My understanding is two of the three boats there long term are moving soon, So not so much of an issue anymore..
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Old 22-09-2013, 10:07   #690
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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I have one (hopefully) last point.....

If these "anchorouts" haven't moved in awhile...meaning had their ground tackle onboard to be inspected...aren't they a hazard to ALL in the harbor including dockowners, commercial fishermen, etc...etc?

If on one crappy night I was visiting and they broke loose and damaged my liveaboard...would THAT be right/fair?
Boats do drag anchor. I see it all the time when the wind blows. But normally the boats dragging are the weekenders or newer boaters. Most full time anchorouts and full time cruisers have pretty impressive ground tackle.
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