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Old 19-09-2013, 09:06   #436
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post
That doesn't make it right or acceptable!
I'm not saying its right or acceptable.

I'm saying if you look at the big picture there's a double standard being applied in favor of development and business and against the individual when a society condones pig farm poop pollution and building marinas that encroach on anchorages, but then turns around and selectively says a liveaboard or derelict vessel is an undesirable eyesore that needs to be eliminated from the community.

Obviously not a level playing field but I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles in North Carolina. Pig poop and the resultant damage to the environment are okay as long as someone's making money off it, but we're not making money off the little guy so let's go after him and ignore the real problems. Typical.

Pig poop + profit = good.
People poop + no profit = bad.
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Old 19-09-2013, 10:45   #437
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Ironic that those who claim the right to do WTF they please to be "Free" always seem to rely on the rules created by others to enforce their rights. If everyone was Free of rules there would be a lot of bodies in the anchorage and elsewhere.....the fact that there is not always comes at a cost.

But the good news is that plenty of other places in the world where either there are no rules or they only exist on paper.
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Old 19-09-2013, 10:53   #438
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

An anchorage for only 4 boats is a no brainer for a local community - make it a short stay anchorage with a mooring field and charge accordingly. The Anchorage is only "good" because of what the town and people have put there - namely the town itself!

Would it be better if the Anchorage was free for the 1 or 2 who would like to live there forever (or "only" 10 years!)?? Yes! of course it would . But it would also be better if the Town gave yer free beer and a go on the town beauty queen - but yer have to live in the real world (at least sometimes ).

Of course for some annoying others is simply part of their raison d'etre - because unless being a PITA they know others would neither notice them nor care...........
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Old 19-09-2013, 10:53   #439
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
Regarding the OP...

Others "may" want a point of view from someone who is a local, and knows the problem in Oriental all to well.

The anchorage here is only large enough for 4 boats, IF they all lay to one hook, on relatively short scope, hopefully set well with big chain.

It was meant to be a convenient "short" stopover for those traveling the ICW or staying overnight, before continuing their short cruise from New Bern to Ocracoke. It was never meant to be a liveaboard OR long term anchorage, and sighting that it has been abused this way in the past, is NO excuse to do it again! There are insufficient facilities for "long term" liveaboard use there, and FAR to little room.

In the last year, there have been two LONG term "nuisance boats" in the harbor, both on LONG scope multi anchor (homemade) moorings. One boat is an unattended derelict, and the other finishes the job of making this VERY small little anchorage unusable by others, because of his mooring system's occupying the entire space. He also kicks up his OB motor at the small public dinghy dock, which is bad form in any public anchorage.

These two characters have abused the privilege beyond belief, and ruined the anchorage for others. I know I wouldn't try to anchor in the space that's left. We avoid the place, solely because of these two boats. Most other cruisers feel the same way...

I have been sailing away on my own creations for 40 years, and on my most recent boat, have lived aboard FULL TIME for over 12, much of it on the hook. In visiting over 20 countries, and covering 20,000+ miles... I always sought out anchorages, facilities, and situations that were appropriate to my proposed length of stay. Sometimes it was years, while I worked on shore.

I can say without a doubt, that the small transient "courtesy" anchorage that was built and maintained by the little town of Oriental, is being abused by ANYONE who stays there for more than a week or so. It is not that sort of situation and not fair to other cruisers, OR the town of Oriental!

There ARE a lot of marinas to choose from in Oriental, ("The Boating Capitol of NC"), and more "appropriate" long term anchorages than one can count... THIS anchorage, however, is definitely NOT one of them.

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For starters it was built by the Army Core of Engineers not the town, and 2 it would be much bigger if they didn't let a marina take so much of it. You know land owners do have rights. Rights to build on the water is one of them but when you look at the scope of how much of the harbor they took you can see if the government back then didn't have their hand out to the highest bidder any sane person would say there is an over ridding public need to protect the water that is in the public trust. As for room for only 4 boats that's funny You can see in that picture posted on this same page there was more then 4 that day all behind the break water with room for another row of boats closer to the marina.
Fine and well but the bottom line is the same. Who cares who built the wall. If it was 2 boats, 4 boats, 6 boats or a dollars worth, it is still small considering the number of boats that pass through. And deserves a little consideration for others. No matter what the LAW says.
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Old 19-09-2013, 11:08   #440
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

I have not seen.....nor heard about the issue here except what I have read in this thread. I am of the opinion that anchorages of all sorts should be available and usable by everyone.....or everyone should have a turn....sort of like you learned in kindergarten....you know share!
So if a few boats move in on a spot and then refuse to move, but decide that it is now theirs and no one else gets to use it....that just does not seem fair to me.
If you want a permanent spot to stay at....maybe go too marina or pay for a mooring like the rest of us do. We all wish everything was free....but alas it is not and if you take a spot that is meant to be shared or usable by others as well, what makes you feel like you have the right to do that? Where is the other persons right to that free spot for at least a little while?
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Old 19-09-2013, 11:15   #441
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Found an undated photo of the anchorage pre-marina development. I count seventeen boats at anchor. Now there's room for four? Go figure.
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Old 19-09-2013, 11:33   #442
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

I read the article about the French couple who own the red boat pictured in one of the eariliest posts. Nobody has a "right" to drop in on a small town from another country and just begin freeloading at anchor in the harbor. The French couple even seem to think they have a "right" to shoplift from the local stores.
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Old 19-09-2013, 11:43   #443
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by WebWench View Post
I have not seen.....nor heard about the issue here except what I have read in this thread. I am of the opinion that anchorages of all sorts should be available and usable by everyone.....or everyone should have a turn....sort of like you learned in kindergarten....you know share!
So if a few boats move in on a spot and then refuse to move, but decide that it is now theirs and no one else gets to use it....that just does not seem fair to me.
If you want a permanent spot to stay at....maybe go too marina or pay for a mooring like the rest of us do. We all wish everything was free....but alas it is not and if you take a spot that is meant to be shared or usable by others as well, what makes you feel like you have the right to do that? Where is the other persons right to that free spot for at least a little while?
You mean like how the marina development is "sharing" the anchorage with the boats? But wait, not everyone gets to "share" the marina development, only the people who pay for it.

Because of the marina development, the anchorage is no longer as you say "available and usable" to at least 13 less boats than before development. If this means the town has more money for law enforcement and infrastructure, that's great if that's what if that's what they want.

However, it looks to me like the town doesn't really place that much value on people who anchor out (at least not as much as they claim) which is confusing to me given the controversy, otherwise why would they have given up the anchorage in the first place?
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Old 19-09-2013, 12:17   #444
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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If you want a permanent spot to stay at....maybe go too marina or pay for a mooring like the rest of us do.
The only problem with that is money. Most of the anchor outs live on a really small monthly budget, pension or retirement. So even with a part time job, there isn't money available to pay a marina for a slip, liveaboard fee and electricity.

Lord knows I live on less then that anyway. So they don't have an option for a slip and eat too. Just how it is.
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Old 19-09-2013, 12:19   #445
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Found an undated photo of the anchorage pre-marina development. I count seventeen boats at anchor. Now there's room for four? Go figure.
Can't be sure from the photo..but in my opinion many of those boats are much further out near or past the end of the breakwater and none where the marina is.
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Old 19-09-2013, 12:27   #446
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

The town does have the right to put a marina in if they so choose....they are getting revenue from it that is used to support the community. That still does not give anyone the right to monopolize the spaces that are left at the anchorage.

I do understand the economics and that some liveaboards cannot afford to go to the marinas and pay the prices for dock spaces. I guess to me the concept of living on a boat is like living in a motor home.... It gives you the ability to travel. All I am saying is that if liveaboards monopolize all the available ancorages long term.... Where is the next boat traveling along supposed to go? That forces the next boat into the Marina. I am just for being reasonable and moving along to give someone else the opportunity to use the anchorage. Is that so unreasonable?
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Old 19-09-2013, 12:40   #447
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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I do understand the economics and that some liveaboards cannot afford to go to the marinas and pay the prices for dock spaces. I guess to me the concept of living on a boat is like living in a motor home.... It gives you the ability to travel. All I am saying is that if liveaboards monopolize all the available ancorages long term.... Where is the next boat traveling along supposed to go? That forces the next boat into the Marina. I am just for being reasonable and moving along to give someone else the opportunity to use the anchorage. Is that so unreasonable?
Oddly enough not unreasonable at all. But as with our friends on the red boat, things on boats break or in many cases the person has health issues, mental or otherwise, which keep them in one place.

I'm lucky as I do travel about, but not everyone has the means or health to do so, So they get stuck on the boat with no where else to go...
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Old 19-09-2013, 12:46   #448
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Can't be sure from the photo..but in my opinion many of those boats are much further out near or past the end of the breakwater and none where the marina is.
When I look at the before and after photos side by side, it looks like the after photo is a wider view from farther away that shows a low spot in the breakwater before the end with the red marker beyond.

When I look at after photo I can't see the end of the break water, only the low spot which would suggest to me that the boats in the before view are in fact all inside the breakwater.

Look to me like the marina goes up to or maybe past the row of boats on the left side of the anchorage as seen in the before photo whereas the boats in the after photo are outside the breakwater as you say.
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Old 19-09-2013, 12:56   #449
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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An anchorage for only 4 boats is a no brainer for a local community - make it a short stay anchorage with a mooring field and charge accordingly. The Anchorage is only "good" because of what the town and people have put there - namely the town itself!
Not quite a no brainer. A mooring field cost money to install, maintain and administer. With space for only 10-15 moorings, the town would soon fine that the mooring field was loosing money as most places find out, even Boot key. Most towns put in mooring fields to keep people from anchoring there for free. Yet few mooring fields in the US actually make money for the towns. Until every anchorage is filled with mooring balls, most folks, short term and long term will just go elsewhere. Then there will be less money entering the towns and cities on the ICW.

I'm still looking for the anchorage with free Beer though...
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Old 19-09-2013, 12:58   #450
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Using this line of thinking, we then need laws governing farting in church!!?
No just get rid of them

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