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Old 18-09-2013, 20:50   #421
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing View Post
For starters it was built by the Army Core of Engineers not the town, and 2 it would be much bigger if they didn't let a marina take so much of it. You know land owners do have rights. Rights to build on the water is one of them but when you look at the scope of how much of the harbor they took you can see if the government back then didn't have their hand out to the highest bidder any sane person would say there is an over ridding public need to protect the water that is in the public trust. As for room for only 4 boats that's funny You can see in that picture posted on this same page there was more then 4 that day all behind the break water with room for another row of boats closer to the marina.
That's right, and the Army Corps of Engineers' mission is "to provide vital public engineering services in peace and war to strengthen the nation's security, energize the economy, and reduce risks from disasters"

It is not to create a convenient "short" stopover for a bunch of fancy yachties cruising in the area.

I would be interested to know what the commercial fishermen think about all the fuss. I know Pamlico Sound faces many of the same environmental challenges that the Chesapeake Bay faces, I doubt the fishing and crabbing are what they used to be.

More development isn't going to help the fishing in an estuary, that's for sure.
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Old 18-09-2013, 21:25   #422
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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That's right, and the Army Corps of Engineers' mission is "to provide vital public engineering services in peace and war to strengthen the nation's security, energize the economy, and reduce risks from disasters"

It is not to create a convenient "short" stopover for a bunch of fancy yachties cruising in the area.
Hmm, according their website, specifically wrt their work on jetties and breakwaters, the purpose is:

Quote:
The US Army Corps of Engineers (Corp) is responsible for a wide variety of coastal structures located on the Atlantic, Pacific, and gulf coasts, the Great Lakes, Hawaiian Islands, other islands, and inland waterways. Coastal improvements such as jetties or breakwaters are frequently required to provide a safe harbor or navigation.
I didn't see any mention of what type of vessel the work is targeted to benefit.
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Old 18-09-2013, 21:47   #423
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Oh no, the liveaboards must be pooping in the water. Meanwhile, according to the Neuse Riverkeeper Foundation -

"There are 2 million hogs in the Neuse River Watershed producing more than twice the “fecal waste” of every citizen of North Carolina.

What are Hog Lagoons?
The hog industry uses an outhouse system of waste disposal. Fecal waste, urine and wash down water from swine operations are stored in open waste pits the industry calls “lagoons” (sorry no bathing beauties anywhere near these lagoons). When the waste pits fill up, the industrial swine producer sprays the untreated waste onto fields under the pre-text of growing crops, While some crops are produced, the main purpose of spraying the waste is disposal. In thousands of pictures and video taken by the state agents and private citizens, this waste is shown running off directly to our wetlands, streams, creeks and rivers.

More than a billion fish have perished since the hog industry over populated Eastern North Carolina with their industrial swine production. Most of these fish had open bleeding lesions covering their bodies. Fish deaths in the Neuse and other rivers of eastern North Carolina are directly linked to nutrient pollution. One of the leading producers of nutrients is the hog industry. This nutrient pollution has been linked to outbreaks of Pfiestera—a toxic organism that attacks both fish and people causing neurological damage and other serious health problems."

I do love me some bacon.

Oh and by the way, there is a Superfund site just across the way from Oriental at the Cherry Point MCAS, might want to enquire if those delicious crabs you're eating whilst dining in town are from a "local" source.
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Old 19-09-2013, 04:23   #424
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Thing is there just is not enough "resource" to go around in Oriental . Its a dinky town with a small anchorage they made even smaller. I for one don't see the difference if the anchorage is full of short term or long term boats. Its still full and I'll just anchor elsewhere. No biggy.

Somebody is always going to have that best anchoring spot. Sometimes its you for a week sometimes its me. But there are tons of other locations to go.

There are a lot of poor folks living full time on the water. Some like me move about a bit. Others tend to stay in one location, moving about just a little. I am amazed at the amount of single women anchoring off sausalito.

So the question I put to you is. Where should the anchor outs go? There are no designated anchor out anchorages/ Lets put the po folks here spots. Just wondering.
If there is not enough of a resource for everyone to have an unlimited share, why should a small group get to monopolize it.

You are trying to create a reverse situation where just because this guy is poor his rights superseed middle class citizens.
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Old 19-09-2013, 04:27   #425
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Riparian water rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Under the riparian principle, all landowners whose property is adjoining to a body of water have the right to make reasonable use of it. If there is not enough water to satisfy all users, allotments are generally fixed in proportion to frontage on the water source. These rights cannot be sold or transferred other than with the adjoining land, and water cannot be transferred out of the watershed.
Riparian rights include such things as the right to access for swimming, boating and fishing; the right to wharf out to a point of navigability; the right to erect structures such as docks, piers, and boat lifts; the right to use the water for domestic purposes; the right to accretions caused by water level fluctuations. Riparian rights also depend upon "reasonable use" as it relates to other riparian owners to ensure that the rights of one riparian owner are weighed fairly and equitably with the rights of adjacent riparian owners"

Seems to me like a dock that displaces an existing anchorage would be past "a point of navigability"
Since someone mentioned problems with depth even on the outer edge of the slips, it could easily be argued that was the minimum they could do to reach navigable waters.
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Old 19-09-2013, 04:43   #426
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Question Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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If there is not enough of a resource for everyone to have an unlimited share, why should a small group get to monopolize it.

You are trying to create a reverse situation where just because this guy is poor his rights superseed middle class citizens.
Or are you trying to create a reverse situation where the first to come should be compelled to move for the last to arrive? What part of first come first served don't people understand? Most of the planet operates this way. Maybe it's not fair, but who ever told you life was fair?

Was it fair that a marina was built which encroached on the anchorage and displaced the transients? Do two wrongs make a right? Then why is it okay to displace a local liveaboards just because the town was greedy for new development and let this marina get built in the first place?

Seriously who benefited from the development anyway? The developers obviously, but who else? Maybe the people on the town payroll, but probably not the residents. All they get is more traffic congestion and pollution, less transients patronizing local business.
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Old 19-09-2013, 04:47   #427
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Old 19-09-2013, 04:55   #428
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Or are you trying to create a reverse situation where the first to come should be compelled to move for the last to arrive? What part of first come first served don't people understand? Most of the planet operates this way. Maybe it's not fair, but who ever told you life was fair?

Was it fair that a marina was built which encroached on the anchorage and displaced the transients? Do two wrongs make a right? Then why is it okay to displace a local liveaboards just because local residents were greedy for new development and let this marina get built in the first place?
If they've been there for months or years...YES, they should make room for others to share the PUBLIC space.

The marina actually helps in allowing more boats to utilize the small harbor. As the one poster indicated, at least one boat has built a permanent moring but I assume never went thru any public notice or permitting process. If you didn't like the marina plan, did you go and voice your concern at the public meetings?
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Old 19-09-2013, 05:10   #429
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
If they've been there for months or years...YES, they should make room for others to share the PUBLIC space.

The marina actually helps in allowing more boats to utilize the small harbor. As the one poster indicated, at least one boat has built a permanent moring but I assume never went thru any public notice or permitting process. If you didn't like the marina plan, did you go and voice your concern at the public meetings?
I don't mean to stir the pot so much as to point out the fact that a harbor only big enough for four boats means that transients are never going to get a spot. A harbor that's big enough for 8 or 10 boats means transients at least have a chance. The town should have thought about that before the marina was built.

Until a law is passed which forever removes the liveaboard blight, the people from Towndock.net should stop their whining.
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Old 19-09-2013, 05:32   #430
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Not sure about NC, but there ARE submerged land deeds in FL. If someone had enough foresight in years gone by, they could (and did) lay claim to submerged land. Many did not because they all knew such land was worthless and why pay tax on worthless land.

Perhaps the marina/condo occupies such a spot? If they (the State) are conveying title and charging real estate taxes, there has to be a legal means to transfer said title.

The OP's argument holds about as much water with me (pun intended) as the guy who wants to camp on the front lawn of a waterfront estate. George Orwell said in "1984" something along the lines of "All pigs are created equal, but some are more equal than others"
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Old 19-09-2013, 06:34   #431
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Another somewhat related problem is the one related to public beaches.

Someone in their infinite wisdom said that properties near the beach have rights extending to the high water line near their property, which means some owners consider that "their land", and try and fence this off and put up signs that this area is for private use. This is in spite of the fact that the limits of their land is clearly delineated in their deed, so the beach is actually adjacent to their property and not owned by them.
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Old 19-09-2013, 06:44   #432
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This isn't just boating. A recent article in one of my aviation magazines gave an example of a guy who was billed over 20 grand for flying into I think Maine and staying a few days. Florida was no go to private pilots for a while because one of our nitwits in Tallahassee thought it would be cool to charge pilots out the ying yang for the privledge of using our airspace! As if jamming people everytime they get a hotel room isn't enough. Federal and local governments have been trying for years to get user access fees passed. So not only do you pay huge coin for the fuel tax, they want you to pay each time you take off and land.

If they are a government official, they want your money. Local, State,Federal, Democrats or Republicans, they want as much of your money as they can legally....or illegally take.
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Old 19-09-2013, 07:26   #433
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by Delancy View Post
Oh no, the liveaboards must be pooping in the water. Meanwhile, according to the Neuse Riverkeeper Foundation -

"There are 2 million hogs in the Neuse River Watershed producing more than twice the “fecal waste” of every citizen of North Carolina.
That doesn't make it right or acceptable!
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Old 19-09-2013, 07:44   #434
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

living aboard in a marina or mooring with access to facilities and food is one thing. these days you are expected to have a picture ID .. street address .. bank account .. and soon health insurance. anchoring out for extended periods is different and you may risk being viewed no differently than the homeless people who sleep in the bushes at night.
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Old 19-09-2013, 08:53   #435
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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living aboard in a marina or mooring with access to facilities and food is one thing. these days you are expected to have a picture ID .. street address .. bank account .. and soon health insurance. anchoring out for extended periods is different and you may risk being viewed no differently than the homeless people who sleep in the bushes at night.
Liveaboards, weather at a marina or anchored out are already looked down upon. Lord knows I don't have a street address or a bank account, or car, etc., and it worries me not at all what others think of me.

Sorry I don't pay for health insurance either, but I'm not required, too even under Obamacare. You got to read the fine print on that one. Guess that makes me a evil woman who does not follow social norms. Shameful hussy, that's me.
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