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Old 17-09-2013, 12:03   #286
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Please share the law that says you are allowed to set up a permanent settlement in a harbor and the local govt has no authority to set uprules that limit such settlements.

I think you will find the law does not fall on your side.
Once again feel free to prove it. I will say one thing If they had that right they would of used it to get rid of the french boat with the people that up until they called ins had over staid their visa a long time ago. See unlike you as this smear campaign had been going on I have talked with more then one lawyer on this issue.
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Old 17-09-2013, 12:21   #287
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Yes... That is fair. And maybe it's NOT fair to lump you in with the French boat (and the others), because you have indeed only been there since March (which in fairness is a little long, but not out of the norm). It is two-fold... Guilt by association and the fact that you have stepped forward and shown the light on yourself. I admire you for stepping out and defending yourself, but you understand that because of #1, you will receive many comments that are more directed at the others in your fleet.

Still, you do insist on running the "fairness" and "rights" flags up the pole and not everyone feels you are in the right. Most of us do not want regulations any more than you do, but many of us ALSO want a chance to anchor in the well-protected part of the harbor that is, for one of many reasons, close to the dinghy dock. Thankfully, at least YOU have opted to do the right thing. However, it does sound like you do have some communication with the others in the anchorage. Are THEY in the dark as you were about the feelings of the community? Do you have enough of a dialog with them where you could discuss options and relay THEIR take on this? Did an outstanding member of the community come to them when they came to you? Would they comply as quickly?
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Old 17-09-2013, 12:30   #288
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Please share the law that says you are allowed to set up a permanent settlement in a harbor and the local govt has no authority to set uprules that limit such settlements.

I think you will find the law does not fall on your side.
Oddly enough it does.

First a boat at anchor even for years is not a permanent structure by any definition. US Admiralty Laws govern under rights to navigation. Which includes being at anchor for extended lengths of time.

For most cities and towns their only recourse is to install a mooring field. Which is why you see them popping up here and there. The problem with mooring fields is they are expensive to install, have costs to administer and ongoing maintenance costs. All this means is the city / town generally looses money in the long term as the fees charged for the mooring fields rarely cover the costs of operation. Plus many boaters go else where to spend their money.
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Old 17-09-2013, 12:31   #289
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Once again feel free to prove it.
I think neither of you are correct. I did a few searches, and while there is no law that says you have to go, there is no more of a law that says you can stay. THAT is why we are in this situation and, sadly, it looks like there will be one sooner or later. We haven't needed one until now. Those boats' unwillingness to follow accepted protocol and the town's unwillingness to allow you to stay (call it greed or whatever you like), has exposed a formerly quiet unspoken agreement between the town and the boating public.
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Old 17-09-2013, 12:48   #290
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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I think neither of you are correct. I did a few searches, and while there is no law that says you have to go, there is no more of a law that says you can stay. THAT is why we are in this situation and, sadly, it looks like there will be one sooner or later. We haven't needed one until now. Those boats' unwillingness to follow accepted protocol and the town's unwillingness to allow you to stay (call it greed or whatever you like), has exposed a formerly quiet unspoken agreement between the town and the boating public.
Laws by their very nature are restrictive in nature. Do this, Don't do that, Etc. As such if there is no law governing a activity, there is no restriction on said activity. Does it follow social convention. Maybe not. But that is what laws are for.

The USA is a very darkonian place. It's pretty much sink or swim. People complain about homeless and anchor outs. But no one wants to pay to help the homeless, etc. Just more NiMBY. A lovely christian sentiment. I for one will never complain about homeless on benches or living in cars or on boats. There but for the grace of god go I.
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Old 17-09-2013, 13:18   #291
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

I would charge $5 a day for dinghy tie-ups. Why is this different than a town installing parking meters? The town could also decide to encourage tourism by waiving the charge for the first five days of a visit.

I tied up my dinghy on the town dock at a Maine island this summer where the community had such a charge. The system was easy. You put your money in a provided envelope where you wrote the date/time and registration number of your dinghy. It went in a locked metal box on the dock. Boats with town stickers were exempt.

I did not think it was unreasonable for the tax payers to ask me to contribute something towards the upkeep of their island.
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Old 17-09-2013, 13:20   #292
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post
I think neither of you are correct. I did a few searches, and while there is no law that says you have to go, there is no more of a law that says you can stay. THAT is why we are in this situation and, sadly, it looks like there will be one sooner or later. We haven't needed one until now. Those boats' unwillingness to follow accepted protocol and the town's unwillingness to allow you to stay (call it greed or whatever you like), has exposed a formerly quiet unspoken agreement between the town and the boating public.
Tom there is no law that says I can go to the store ether. Laws are designed to tell people what they can't do.
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Old 17-09-2013, 13:24   #293
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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I would charge $5 a day for dinghy tie-ups. Why is this different than a town installing parking meters? The town could also decide to encourage tourism by waiving the charge for the first five days of a visit.

I tied up my dinghy on the town dock at a Maine island this summer where the community had such a charge. The system was easy. You put your money in a provided envelope where you wrote the date/time and registration number of your dinghy. It went in a locked metal box on the dock. Boats with town stickers were exempt.

I did not think it was unreasonable for the tax payers to ask me to contribute something towards the upkeep of their island.
How much money do they contribute to your fees? Did you buy goods in their town? Where those goods taxed? When I see a town that charges for public dinghy tie ups I go right on past.
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Old 17-09-2013, 13:28   #294
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post
Yes... That is fair. And maybe it's NOT fair to lump you in with the French boat (and the others), because you have indeed only been there since March (which in fairness is a little long, but not out of the norm). It is two-fold... Guilt by association and the fact that you have stepped forward and shown the light on yourself. I admire you for stepping out and defending yourself, but you understand that because of #1, you will receive many comments that are more directed at the others in your fleet.

Still, you do insist on running the "fairness" and "rights" flags up the pole and not everyone feels you are in the right. Most of us do not want regulations any more than you do, but many of us ALSO want a chance to anchor in the well-protected part of the harbor that is, for one of many reasons, close to the dinghy dock. Thankfully, at least YOU have opted to do the right thing. However, it does sound like you do have some communication with the others in the anchorage. Are THEY in the dark as you were about the feelings of the community? Do you have enough of a dialog with them where you could discuss options and relay THEIR take on this? Did an outstanding member of the community come to them when they came to you? Would they comply as quickly?
Tom I agree there are some that don't agree with me, but then there are people that support the NSA reading their email, looking at who they call, and seeing who they text. Just because people believe something does't make it right.
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Old 17-09-2013, 14:26   #295
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing View Post
How much money do they contribute to your fees? Did you buy goods in their town? Where those goods taxed? When I see a town that charges for public dinghy tie ups I go right on past.
I would bet the farm that you are not registered with the Pamlico County Tax office.

Quote:
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Just because people believe something does't make it right.
As an atheist, I am glad you said that. Still, do you or do you NOT believe that is within the rights of the community, either through residential pressure (like you are experiencing) OR through laws and regulation, to control their own space? (within the boundaries of the State and US Constitution) Yes, you are currently OUTSIDE of the boundaries of the town, but they have asserted that because they people have been accused of taking advantage of that space, used their taxpayer provided services, caused (arguably) unrest among it's citizens, and disrupted potential revenue to commercial interests that they rely on to survive (tourism), they attempted to get the NC Legislature to grant them control of that space. They, of course, failed at the first attempt, but it will not likely be the last.

I suspect that there is a lobby, or at least a few political campaign contributions at stake, from the handful of marina owners that exist in Oriental putting pressure on town leaders to keep you guys there. The less people at anchor, the more people in marinas... But it's only a theory.
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Old 17-09-2013, 14:38   #296
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What exactly is the issue. Either there are properly constituted laws that control anchoring or there are not. If there is not then this has descended into " it doesn't look nice " argument which is ridiculous.
The fact that someone shoplifts ( was she prosecuted ) isn't a reason to run them out of town

There's a whiff of mob justice here. It has nothing whatsoever to do with taxes

There are people anchored in the rade de villefranche in the swankyist part of the south of France all summer long , what's the issue

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Old 17-09-2013, 14:55   #297
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pirate Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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What exactly is the issue. Either there are properly constituted laws that control anchoring or there are not. If there is not then this has descended into " it doesn't look nice " argument which is ridiculous.
The fact that someone shoplifts ( was she prosecuted ) isn't a reason to run them out of town

There's a whiff of mob justice here. It has nothing whatsoever to do with taxes

There are people anchored in the rade de villefranche in the swankyist part of the south of France all summer long , what's the issue

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Old 17-09-2013, 15:18   #298
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

For those who complain about boaters basically "squatting", and using "free" facilities paid by local taxes ...

who sent all that money to the northwest when Mt St. Helen blew her top, or to the eastern shores of America when hurricanes come to town.

Surely, for the most part, Americans that DO NOT live in the area and have never and probably will never use the local facilities.

What about all these federal taxes being used to subsidize all sorts of "local", needs? That federal money comes from all over America.

So, maybe if a community wants to restrict access to "American", citizens, maybe that community should forego any and all federal grants and subsidies and forget about aid from the "American" government, the next time a hurricane hits or a mountain blows up.

Maybe it's time to realistically address the problem of derelict boats, non-road worthy campers, bicyclers who use roads without buying gas(gas tax), or those "hippie-type", backpackers who pass through town without paying taxes for walking ...
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Old 17-09-2013, 15:54   #299
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Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Maybe it's time to realistically address the problem of derelict boats, non-road worthy campers, bicyclers who use roads without buying gas(gas tax), or those "hippie-type", backpackers who pass through town without paying taxes for walking ...
Oddly enough the reason roads were first being paved in the US was for all the cyclists. The automobile came after.

Sorry I was staying too focused on the thread, so had to do a little blonde drift....

Just remember to Larry Ellison and the like, pretty much every one of us has a derelict boat and is a bum. Its all relative.

Lucky for me I can be a bum-ette anchored in a fairly pristine location without any other bum's or the NIMBY folks around.
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Old 17-09-2013, 16:26   #300
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pirate Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

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Oddly enough the reason roads were first being paved in the US was for all the cyclists. The automobile came after.

Sorry I was staying too focused on the thread, so had to do a little blonde drift....

Just remember to Larry Ellison and the like, pretty much every one of us has a derelict boat and is a bum. Its all relative.

Lucky for me I can be a bum-ette anchored in a fairly pristine location without any other bum's or the NIMBY folks around.
And... for the 'Colour Conflicted'... a Bum-ette in a Pinkish Boat to boot...
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