Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-09-2013, 07:19   #271
Registered User
 
Julie Mor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 401
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

After reading many of the comments and the Town Dock article, it seems the real problem is the French boat and its crew. The pictures I saw make me wonder about the physical and/or mental strengths of its owners. Age could be sapping both.

If I lived there, and especially if I was in the harbor, I would get together a group of fellow boaters and head over to Primadonna and talk to Pascal and Monique and offer to help them clean up the boat and fix it up so they could set sail again. This would not be as an effort to get rid of them but to help them do what it seems they want to do - sail again.

If I was an author, I'd offer to write their story, particularly about the Bounty and sailing through Hurricane Sandy, as it would be an easy write and probably help put some money in their pockets, considering the allegation the French government stopped Pascal's pension payments. It sounds like the lack of money, due to the pension situation, is a major part of why they can't leave.

What I wouldn't do is throw human life out with the trash. If a person sleeps on a park bench it's usually because they are homeless. It's shocking how many formerly self-supporting people are in that situation today. We have to be careful how we treat our fellow man because we don't know if we will be next.

Get your community together, help get Primadonna seaworthy again and when they happily get back on their way, you can feel good about helping out fellow sailors. And all the snobs will love you for clearing out the riff-raff.
As for the "pink boat", every harbor must have a hint of color!
__________________

__________________
Julie Mor is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 07:40   #272
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Carolina
Boat: Catalina 380
Posts: 29
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

The community has really helped out the French couple! Churches and individuals have provided food and cash. I was in Oriental over the weekend (we keep our boat there) and talked to a cashier at the grocery store who is a young girl that I imagine does not have a lot of disposable income. She said she tries to catch the lady at Dollar General and gives her some money to spend over there on food and cigarettes. While I applaud this young lady whose heart is in the right place, come on......cigarettes!??!? Another gentleman joined the conversation saying that the couple is always very thankful and gracious when he gives them food from his restaurant. So yes, the community has stepped up to assist. I think they're feeling a bit weary by this point. Especially after the woman was caught shoplifting from the grocery store.
__________________

__________________
KNoel is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 08:12   #273
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 2,834
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

No comments on the French boat overstaying the time limit in NC waters with no NC rego? the state should just impound the boat and stick them on a plane. problem solved there.

Next, anyone that wants to preserve reasonable anchoring rights for future cruisers needs to move on after a reasonable stop.
__________________
Check out my MoJo: Facebook.com/mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 08:30   #274
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,221
Images: 2
pirate Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNoel View Post
The community has really helped out the French couple! Churches and individuals have provided food and cash. I was in Oriental over the weekend (we keep our boat there) and talked to a cashier at the grocery store who is a young girl that I imagine does not have a lot of disposable income. She said she tries to catch the lady at Dollar General and gives her some money to spend over there on food and cigarettes. While I applaud this young lady whose heart is in the right place, come on......cigarettes!??!? Another gentleman joined the conversation saying that the couple is always very thankful and gracious when he gives them food from his restaurant. So yes, the community has stepped up to assist. I think they're feeling a bit weary by this point. Especially after the woman was caught shoplifting from the grocery store.
It is a nice friendly little town in the main... and a few folks really helped me out... even when it was not needed... but their hearts were in the right place so that was fine...
I think quite a few folk were surprised when I flew over from the UK a year or so later to pay off some debts I'd run up... especially those I owed...
I could have done it remotely... but it was so much nicer to shake a couple of hands, look em in the eye and say Thank You...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now  
Old 17-09-2013, 08:33   #275
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,883
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing View Post
My boat was not in the harbor in the winter, something that is even document on the website that started all this (after it was pointed out). But I can tell you the number of boats that were effected was very few, and I am sorry your was one of them. 99% of the time the harbor here is a ghost town. In the spring cruising season the harbor was full for about 2 weeks with 10 to 14 boats each day, and room for more So if you do the math and say most boats stay in the harbor 2 to 5 days my boat effected less then 10 others that could of pulled into it's spot in peek season. I can understand what you are saying though and this week when I move one of the other boats is moving as well. I never even wanted to move back into the harbor I like it on greens creek. What really bothers me is the way many have treated us in the last 4 months, and now unless we all watch the town could strip away rights that we should all enjoy. Like I said in that 4 month time not one person politely asked me to move. It's not like this is the DC metro area here as you know this town is smaller then most farming communities so it's not like finding me would have been that hard.
Well, haven't read the whole thread but I'm in Beaufort and wouldn't mind being in Oriental for a few days but as noted by most: There ain't no room. While I'm glad someone found a way for you to leave and save face, I think boaters who are essentially just liveaboards, and I'd say that includes you whether behind the breakwater or behind the bridge, are the cause of this problem.

There are rumblings of the same sort here in Beaufort. While a much larger area to anchor is available on a chart, the traveler will find the close in spots are taken by bums on boats.

I have relayed this story before but a few years back a vigilante cut three boats loose in Town Creek, a harbor of refuge. Never heard a word about it. I can't say I approve but anchor spacing got measurably easier.

Most annoying, in my view, is this could all be handled more appropriately by the locals by insisting on the police, water cops, or USCG making genuinely routine inspections for waste disposal, and proper equipment. We do not need more laws. We need law enforcement.
__________________
Blue Crab is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 08:34   #276
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
No comments on the French boat overstaying the time limit in NC waters with no NC rego? the state should just impound the boat and stick them on a plane. problem solved there.

Next, anyone that wants to preserve reasonable anchoring rights for future cruisers needs to move on after a reasonable stop.

Exactly.

You know if you're overstaying your welcome, or if you're essentially getting a free ride at someone else's expense. It's not enough, really, to be paying for your beer and groceries. Someone else is paying for the infrastructure, (roads, water, trash collection, etc.) People typically don't mind if you visit, but if you begin to live there or block the view, it becomes a different story.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 09:42   #277
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Carolina
Boat: Catalina 380
Posts: 29
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Agreed that Beaufort has gotten really bad with regard to seemingly permanently anchored boats! We are heading out to Cape Lookout next week and usually like to stop over in Beaufort, but we have a pup and to anchor a zillion miles away is just a pain at 0 dark 30. And leaving our child's inheritance at the city docks is just aggravating, so will probably bypass. It's a shame.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Well, haven't read the whole thread but I'm in Beaufort and wouldn't mind being in Oriental for a few days but as noted by most: There ain't no room. While I'm glad someone found a way for you to leave and save face, I think boaters who are essentially just liveaboards, and I'd say that includes you whether behind the breakwater or behind the bridge, are the cause of this problem.

There are rumblings of the same sort here in Beaufort. While a much larger area to anchor is available on a chart, the traveler will find the close in spots are taken by bums on boats.

I have relayed this story before but a few years back a vigilante cut three boats loose in Town Creek, a harbor of refuge. Never heard a word about it. I can't say I approve but anchor spacing got measurably easier.

Most annoying, in my view, is this could all be handled more appropriately by the locals by insisting on the police, water cops, or USCG making genuinely routine inspections for waste disposal, and proper equipment. We do not need more laws. We need law enforcement.
__________________
KNoel is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 10:14   #278
Registered User
 
Tom.B's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Boat: 2000 Navigator 4200 Classic-Skinny Dippin'
Posts: 164
Images: 28
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing View Post
I don't believe in limits at all.
... And yet, your actions will only CAUSE the people of the town to step in and implement them (okay... less you, but more the French boat and the fact there are now FOUR of you guys abusing your so-call right). I don't see how it's your responsibility to step in and force Oriental to face this issue. Even less why you want to continue to stay in a town where you and the other boats around you are not welcome.

For many, many, many years before you came into the limelight, the honor system has worked. It made Oriental, even after the new marina was built, a premier town to stop on the ICW. Why does the town have to even ask "nicely" for you to kindly make room? A real cruiser, a real sailor, and a real member of the boating community would know what the limits are and act reasonably to abide by a fair use of such a small space. You have given the community that you claim to enjoy, a black-eye, because now, the town has to now look like the big and oppressive beast you probably hate. Moreover, have created a culture of us versus them in that wonderful little town and unfairly trashed a well-run website that does a great job of promoting the town.

I really enjoy boating to Oriental, but I fell like you, and your buddies, are being completely unreasonable by not letting others share. As I predicted, any attempt to move y'all along has been met, not by a sensible discussion, but by you digging your heels in, claiming your rights have been violated, and escalating things to where we are now.

I thank you for finally doing a good thing and moving out for a while, but like many wives have said, "I shouldn't have to ask you to do nice things for me. You should do them because you love me."
__________________
Tom.B is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 10:23   #279
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sailing the Caribbean
Boat: Switch 51
Posts: 1,498
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

I think this thread and the other are working as they should. Its pretty clear that the majority believes boats anchored in one location indefinitely are abusing a privilege that all cruisers enjoy and are a proximate cause of increasing anchoring regulation. So, it is entirely appropriate that those anchor-outs, even though part of this cruising community, should come in for some tough criticism by others here who do not behave that way and who do not want to see more and more limits on anchoring, some of which will have real teeth. Cruisers policing their own community is part of a solution and entirely consistent with resistance to new laws that would limit these anchor-outs in the first place.
__________________
SVNeko is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 10:44   #280
Registered User
 
Tom.B's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Boat: 2000 Navigator 4200 Classic-Skinny Dippin'
Posts: 164
Images: 28
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

FYI... Town Dock posted his letter and a short reply:

Anchorage Boat Captain Defends His Stay | Letters To The Editor | TownDock.net, Oriental NC
__________________
Tom.B is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 11:00   #281
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sailing the Caribbean
Boat: Switch 51
Posts: 1,498
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post
Pretty much says it all, I think.
__________________
SVNeko is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 11:07   #282
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,815
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

There have been anchor outs in many (most) harbors all around the country/ world. In Richardson bay / Sausalito they have been there pretty much as long as Sausalito was there. Myself, I don't begrudge the anchor outs their spot to live. Lord knows I'm just an anchor out that moves about, Some call the cruising, but its really just about the same thing. Least wise to the folks a shore.

Oddly enough Sausalito/ Marin does have laws governing anchor outs / extended anchoring. Turns out they are mostly un-enforceable.

As we all do when we see a full harbor, we just go somewhere else. Even in Oriental there are creeks to pull up into to anchor. Yes the prime spot is small and a few boats have been there quite some time. Me I would just anchor up the creek, but that's just me. Even if the three boats moved, it still is a small anchorage and demand exceeds space.

Got to laugh at the folks worried about anchoring in 10-15 knot winds. In northern California that's almost no wind at all. Currently I have 23 knots gusting to 30. Just another day on the bay/delta.
__________________
sailorchic34 is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 11:47   #283
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NC
Boat: Pearson 30'
Posts: 143
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
This is public space. You have no "right" to occupy it long term. It may have been tolerated. It may not have been enforced. In the past, they may have even encouraged it. But you have no "right' to occupy it long term. The "rights" you wax on about are related to safe water transport which may include anchoring for short periods.

Just like you can't take your RV to a city park and set up residence permanently in the parking lot. It is a public park, so you are allowed to visit and if the RV is small, it may be legitimate to part there for an afternoon but when you try to permanently take over the area for your personal use, it takes away that use from the rest of the public.

As public space, I have as much "right" to anchor in that exact spot as you do and by monopolizing it, you have "shrunk" my rights.

The laws says something different. I am moving my choice, and not for any other reason. Your free to show me any law that covers that harbor that says different.
__________________
GothVanhellsing is offline  
Old 17-09-2013, 11:57   #284
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,886
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by GothVanhellsing View Post
The laws says something different. I am moving my choice, and not for any other reason.
Please share the law that says you are allowed to set up a permanent settlement in a harbor and the local govt has no authority to set uprules that limit such settlements.

I think you will find the law does not fall on your side.
__________________
valhalla360 is online now  
Old 17-09-2013, 12:00   #285
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NC
Boat: Pearson 30'
Posts: 143
Re: Our shrinking rights and the fight in Oriental NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post
... And yet, your actions will only CAUSE the people of the town to step in and implement them (okay... less you, but more the French boat and the fact there are now FOUR of you guys abusing your so-call right). I don't see how it's your responsibility to step in and force Oriental to face this issue. Even less why you want to continue to stay in a town where you and the other boats around you are not welcome.

For many, many, many years before you came into the limelight, the honor system has worked. It made Oriental, even after the new marina was built, a premier town to stop on the ICW. Why does the town have to even ask "nicely" for you to kindly make room? A real cruiser, a real sailor, and a real member of the boating community would know what the limits are and act reasonably to abide by a fair use of such a small space. You have given the community that you claim to enjoy, a black-eye, because now, the town has to now look like the big and oppressive beast you probably hate. Moreover, have created a culture of us versus them in that wonderful little town and unfairly trashed a well-run website that does a great job of promoting the town.

I really enjoy boating to Oriental, but I fell like you, and your buddies, are being completely unreasonable by not letting others share. As I predicted, any attempt to move y'all along has been met, not by a sensible discussion, but by you digging your heels in, claiming your rights have been violated, and escalating things to where we are now.

I thank you for finally doing a good thing and moving out for a while, but like many wives have said, "I shouldn't have to ask you to do nice things for me. You should do them because you love me."
In this my actions have been nothing new, the town dock even admits the harbor has always had long term boats in it. they downplay it and talk about a boat that was left in the harbor a long time ago and has not been there in over 2 years, but liveabords in the harbor here is nothing new. The locals in this thread have it right the only reason this became an issue is because the french boat has been pissing everyone off. You people with real this and real that, really make me sick.
__________________

__________________
GothVanhellsing is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.