Older or Newer

[sausage]

Hello all,
Ive been reading for a while and finding many answers - so thanks to everyone for the wealth of info and encouragement.

From what Ive read I have settled on getting a large a yacht as possible - something I felt was right but was advised against by freinds and family who sail - I was advised against a larger yacht only because of mooring up difficulties, short handed sailing and berthing charges.

This means though that my partner and I may have to buy a slightly older yacht.

The yachts I have looked at range from 100 yrs old to 5 yrs old.

Our plan is to sail from the UK to the Med - which can have its own challenges, then spend the summer in the med, and cross the atlantic to either the east coast or the caribbean.

I know this is a very open ended question, but should I look at a newer yacht and not consider the older ones? Buying a newer yacht means buying a smaller one.

Im about to embark on 5 months training with only 4 days off a month. Hopefully Illhave a much better understanding after that. However Im interested in any advice or opinions that can guide my search.

Thanks in advance,
mark

[Vasco]

The main advantage of buying new is that there's a warranty and, if you pick the right builder, good support. Also you're not buying into someone else's problems. And you save a lot of time as you don't have to scurry all over looking at "bristol" yachts that turn out to be dogs. I prefer new but if you're knowledgeable, handy and have lots of time, buying an older boat is certainly worth it.

[Pblais]

I know this is a very open ended question, but should I look at a newer yacht and not consider the older ones? Buying a newer yacht means buying a smaller one.

So does paying to maintain a boat. Big ones cost more to own too. The money you pay up front is known. The money you pay over time is unknown. Big older boat has more things to fix. I don't think it's a clear choice but making the money works matters. Taking all your money and buying the biggest boat probably would be a bad idea since you could get a really really big very old boat.

You want the smallest big boat that suits your purpose. One big enough to haul all your stuff will help the budget best.

[sausage]

Thanks Vasco, Pblais. Oh dear - have you heard about me already? (joke)Ive made similar mistakes with cars in the past where the ownership costs have been bigger than anticipated. I do try to remember the words of wisdom from my parents: "All that glitters is not gold".

Having read a number of threads here Jeanneau are looking a likely candidate with a 40-50 foot boat from 1980-1990 whereas it seems a Beneteau of similar size and money could be as late a model as a 1997.
There are some comments on the forum about the Jeanneau being a stronger build, especially from the 1980s - which is something to consider when thinking of living aboard, and undertaking ocean passages.

Can any one comment on 1980s Jeanneau vs 1990s Beneteau?
My partner really does have a soft spot for the look of luxury that comes with the later boats.


On another note, and simply by way of conversation: I finish work on Friday - ideally for good or at least for a very very long time, and have four weeks to "shut up shop (home)" and prepare for starting on an "Ocean Yacht Master" course for the next 5 months, hopefully followed by a couple of long deliveries. Im very excited.

Hopefully at the end of the courses Ill be better able to distinguish between an unsuitable yacht and something suitable, even if it is just to be able to rule out the boats in the right price bracket, but only beacuse they are not kitted out with all that we'll need.

thanks,
Mark

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by sausage

T
Can any one comment on 1980s Jeanneau vs 1990s Beneteau?
My partner really does have a soft spot for the look of luxury that comes with the later boats.

They're essentially the same. Some say Jeanneau's are a bit better built but if it's a choice between an 80's J and a 90's B I'll take the 90's boat any day.

[sausage]

Thanks Vasco.

So would a Beneteau be safe boat for Atlantic crossings?

I know they are a very popular brand, and I have always liked them since seeing them at the Southampton boat show in 1986. Most that I see are in the Mediterranean where waters are less likely to try and break ones yacht.


Mark

[psteele235]

Mark, I think that once you finish the Ocean Master course you will have a much better understanding and be able to decide what is best for you, not anyone else. Will your partner who has as you say "a soft spot for the look of luxury that comes with the later boats" be doing a course as well?

[sausage]

Hi,
well, 5 months later and now my course is finished, and I do have a better idea, although it doesnt make chosing a yacht easy Im still struggling.

Unfortunately my budget has been hit by 20% due to an unforeseen tax bill, although I might still manage a 42-44 Moody, Westerly, Hylas, Bowman, Formosa or similar. If I fail to secure a great deal then Ill have to aim lower and fall back on the 1980/1990 Jean/Bens.

Patrick, My partner was due to complete some courses but various things have delayed that, although she is on her way.

Its an exciting and daunting time.
Mark

[swabbmob]

This is throwing a bit of a curve to the choices, but are there any of those beautiful pilot cutters available over there? The ones with the gaff rigs and bow sprits? I have heard they can be very seaworthy, tough, simple to sail. Seemed like I saw a 40 footer in the UK a while back. Beautiful and reasonably priced.

[sausage]

Hi Swabbmob,
do you have a link to the koind of boat you are talking about. I may well have been loioking at such things, but I couldnt say for sure. Do you think there would be any difficulty in short handed sailing?

Cheers
Mark

[sausage]

PLease ignore the response above, I actually googled pilot cutter then edited my response 5 mins after posting it - although it didnt get submitted.

Thanks Swabbnmob.
Mark

[muskoka]

Hi Sausage,

I previously owned a '94 Beneteau which I purchased in '99 and sold in '07. So basically I owned her from 5 to 13 years. The closest I've got to buying new is our current FP at 2 years (with only 50 hours on the engines), and I can tell you I'll never buy a new boat. A new(ish) boat has every benefit of new (and every commissioning problem) without the higher price tag!

I've got to say that the nominal age of the boat is only of marginal value in assessing her 'worth'. It really comes down to how the boat was maintained by the Owners. We sold our Beneteau after 8 years of ownership for 97% of what we paid for her. I reckon I could have got +100% but for the fact we were selling to friends. Of course, her pristine condition was the result of real money spent on maintenance every year (she was owned by very fussy owners) so I'm not suggesting in any way that she was a money spinner. But, the point is that the basic systems are sound for a long time if carefully maintained.

I wouldn't feel to put off by looking at older vintages as some of them are really in magnificent shape. Your budget may have taken a hit but you can expect that selling prices are adjusting downwards as well. Focus on quality first, and even if you find yourself settling for a slightly smaller boat you'll feel real pride of ownership six months down the road!

Happy sailing.

[meyermm]

Has anyone else noticed that the more modern boats Jeanneau, Benn etc seem to age better and do not need the same levels of maintenance. The older seventy/eighty style heavy displacement style yachts with lots of wood etc can look great but not without bucket loads of time and money. Yes they all require time and money but some more than others. I agree that the owner has a huge bearing on the boats condition.

[Pblais]

Has anyone else noticed that the more modern boats Jeanneau, Benn etc seem to age better and do not need the same levels of maintenance.

I would say there is no boat that needs lower levels of maintenance unless you just want to hang in the slip all the time and never go any place. For that the shine is as far as you need to look. So many of the things that require work have nothing to do with the amount of wood. We have a lot of wood. It's a lot of work. The wood is actually the easy part. The stuff underneath is the expensive stuff.

In buying older boats I would argue forget who made it and look at who maintained it. I see no "brand" advantage to older boats in terms of poor maintenance. It would be nice to think so but I see no evidence. In a list of older boats you are considering go with the one in the best condition. Fix up boats are neglected boats and there are more unseen surprises than a surveyor can find. It also means going beyond the cosmetic. From the parking lot they all look great.

[meyermm]

Sorry but I disagree, modern manufacturing and materials have reduced many problems. Many old boats have built in defects that have been designed out of modern boats. Iron fuel & water tanks that cannot be replaced without major surgery etc. Engines that are designed for marine use not marinised versions. I am in the automotive industry here in Aust. and have watched many engine reconditioners shut their doors simply because engine life spans have increased with modern technology. Cruisers tend to be older and set in there ways. "Older is better" "back in the old days we built real boats" I am not saying that newer plastic boats do not need constant maintenance, they do, but not to the same extent.