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Old 14-11-2012, 11:25   #376
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Originally Posted by Greenhand View Post
Is there an example of free enterprise healthcare anywhere?
In the West, not since The Great Depression/WW2 wiped out the mutual friendly societies...in some places, even earlier. If you want to become sick and stay that way, get in the clutches of the pharma system and western symptom-focused chemical "medicine". Natural remedies are now officially banned over here. Gone are the folk remedies...either renamed and patented by big pharma, or banned. Also, sick people are easily controllable and less likely to come rain on your parade if they suspect you're tampering with their lives...or they're so sick they don't notice. Pop a prozac or a ritalin...

Similar operating principle to modern appliances; repeat business is more lucrative than intermittent one-offs. Stick a chip and an IC in it, the thing will fail in a few years and it can't be economically fixed, so if it isn't already obsolete it is toast and you go buy another. Cars, the same....used to be a half-competent handyman could do it all himself, now it's all black boxes and computer diagnostics and chips, replace instead of fix.

Another simile is razors....once upon a time you bought a razor or inherited one from Dad or Grandad, you looked after it and had a great shave. Now you go through a disposable cartridge in about a week if you're lucky and have a face like someone just harvested a skin graft off it. Or, do a micah and look like a cross between Grizzly Adams and Chewbacca, save a ton of razor-money and snatch an extra 10 min asleep every morning.
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Old 14-11-2012, 11:51   #377
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Or, do a micah and look like a cross between Grizzly Adams and Chewbacca, save a ton of razor-money and snatch an extra 10 min asleep every morning.
LOL...

I am very much guilty of that. My poor suffering wife has to live with me face going from baby ass smooth to prickly hedgehog to short beard about every two weeks...=*^)

Sorry for the thread jack..=*^)
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Old 14-11-2012, 13:02   #378
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

The biggest problem with the healthcare system is the shortage of people who eat a healthy diet and do their weekly exercise. If this group was bigger there would be more funding to prop up the food addicts. I'm not the best example but for the last 20 years my doctor would be lucky if he saw me once every 3 or 4 years.
I read a US study once that said most people in aged care(at that time over 80% of them) were there for lack of exercise---broken hips from reduce bone density, incontinence from muscle waisting, inability to do daily chores etc etc.
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Old 14-11-2012, 13:20   #379
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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I read a US study once that said most people in aged care(at that time over 80% of them) were there for lack of exercise---broken hips from reduce bone density, incontinence from muscle waisting, inability to do daily chores etc etc.
Yes, that's been said over and over. My mother as I mentioned and still going strong at 95 is a great example of how important it is to keep going.

When she was 70 (at the time she was a slender, 5.4" - she is still slender but probably an inch shorter) she and my dad struck a deal with a guy who wanted to tear down an old 2 story house (with a full attic) in order to build a new house on the site. The deal was, they would get all the lumber and stuff in the house if they tore it down and removed it all from the site.

It took the two of them 4 months to tear it down, roof tile by roof tile, brick by brick, board by board and load it on trucks and truck it up to their mansion by the lake:

http://www.christerrosewellphotography.com/Grantorp.jpg

where they planned to use the material for a couple of more free standing garages and whatnot. I have a strong suspicion her always going at it is why she is still sharp and around...
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Old 14-11-2012, 13:20   #380
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Originally Posted by tookish1 View Post
Early retirement for us means 55-56 instead of 62-65. My wife has had breast and bladder cancer and although is cancer "free" now, there is incentive for us to go sooner rather than later. I have never made a six figure income and our boat will be something seaworthy and modest (Tayana 42CC?)
Maybe we are just lucky, but after working 30+ years, paying off the house and having some modest rental property income - we can now make some serious plans.
If that sounds like I expect someone else to foot the bill, you misunderstand.
Very well said
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Old 14-11-2012, 13:25   #381
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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The requirements you are referring to are for part A, not for those parts of Medicare that cover your day to day costs, which is what you were complaining about in the first place.
Well--Thanks for clearing up my confusion on what I was complaining about. Gee, and to think I thought I was complaining about having to sign up for Medicare when/if we signed up for Social Security...who knew!?!
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Old 14-11-2012, 13:31   #382
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Well--Thanks for clearing up my confusion on what I was complaining about. Gee, and to think I thought I was complaining about having to sign up for Medicare when/if we signed up for Social Security...who knew!?!
Well, since you spent so much time explaining the perceived effect on your care from you primary provider, it seemed you were complaining about that.
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Old 15-11-2012, 10:45   #383
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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On a recent trip to the dermatologist (a necessary evil for we tropical sailors), the doc sprayed a dozen "spots" that she didn't like. The "retail" price was........$42 per two second spray! I mean c'mon a squirt of liquid nitrogen for $42!!! The rate the insurance company allows (and the rate I pay by default), is $6... SIX DOLLARS! Had I not been "insured" my out of pocket would have been over $500, but as an insured I paid $72 out of pocket WITH ZERO CONTRIBUTED BY INSURANCE!
Yeah, there's a reason for this and it's due to the way insurance is setup. Insurance will pay your dermatologist per spray, so she charges per spray. However each company will pay a set amount. Maybe $4 at one place, $7 for another company, etc. But the place that pays $7 won't pay that much if she charges $6, they'll only pay the $6.

So she charges $42 per spray knowing she'll never earn that. The thing is though is if you tell her you just want to pay cash she could just charge you $5 and end up earning more than making $6 through the insurance company because of the added overhead they create. And a lot of doctors will do this, deal in cash at a discount.

But the system is a mess and no one likes it. It basically forces doctors to play a game of "working the system to make money" just to pay their bills.

Pills are the same way. In the US I get "charged" $180 for a month of Omeprazole of which I pay $10 each month co-pay. I can have a 6 month supply air mailed in from New Zealand for about $8 a month total cost. it's silly.

Unfortunately no politician is coming up with ways to fix the mess.
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Old 15-11-2012, 11:05   #384
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Originally Posted by micah719 View Post
In the Wes......

Similar operating principle to modern appliances; repeat business is more lucrative than intermittent one-offs. Stick a chip and an IC in it, the thing will fail in a few years and it can't be economically fixed, so if it isn't already obsolete it is toast and you go buy another. Cars, the same....used to be a half-competent handyman could do it all himself, now it's all black boxes and computer diagnostics and chips, replace instead of fix.

Another simile is razors....once upon a time you bought a razor or inherited one from Dad or Grandad, you looked after it and had a great shave. Now you go through a disposable cartridge in about a week if you're lucky and have a face like someone just harvested a skin graft off it. Or, do a micah and look like a cross between Grizzly Adams and Chewbacca, save a ton of razor-money and snatch an extra 10 min asleep every morning.
Im sorry , this is nonsense. IN appliances the major issue is the cost of repair, ie labour costs, the dishwasher repairman also wants to send his kids to college and isnt prepared to work for 50 cents an hour. Hence devices cannot be repaired cheaply, so theres not much point. repairing my dishwasher recently , cost more the a new one. Guess what I have a shiny new one. Thats nothing to do with failure rates.

Cars , thats a function of the performance and longevity needed by comnsumers in modern automobiles, not to mention environmental and safety legislation. It is not repairable not designed to be repairable by your average mechanic, sure get one with the gear, knowledge and spare parts and it can be repaired, however the labour rate will be 200 and hour. Do you think you can repair a surface mounted IC on a board, yes you can, is it economically viable , of course not.

Secondly most "engineered" devices go two ways, (a) They get better or (b) they get cheaper. Cars today last longer, dont rust and are better then 2 decades ago. Your washing machine costs a fraction of your disposable income then it did your fathers. I remember when my dad debated for months over a black & decker, why its was 60 pounds and that was a lot of money then ( its still working BTW), when I bought my first B&D , it was 100 pounds, it was a more powerful and sophisticated version, it represented a tiny fraction of my income and I bought it at 28 . ( Yes its also still going as well). Today I have 6 electric drills some as cheap as 20 quid. ( al are still working).

Razors, yes I remember my old Grandads razor, one of the first "safety " razors on the market, it become blunt after a few uses, required laborious resharpening, and wasnt anything as good as todays disposable blades. It also cost a small fortune. Seriously that isnt progress.

Just stop sounding like a grumpy old man

PS: I put ICs into things for a living!!. I can make them outlast the human race, but it'll cost you. If you want a 100 year toaster, no problem.

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Old 15-11-2012, 11:22   #385
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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The biggest problem with the healthcare system is the shortage of people who eat a healthy diet and do their weekly exercise.
This makes sense, but is it true? If an overweight, non-exercising, alcoholic smoker dies of a heart attack at age 55 doesn't this cost society less than the person who contracts prostate cancer at age 95?
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Old 15-11-2012, 11:26   #386
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Government never does something cheaper or more efficiently than free-to-compete private enterprise...
Medicare runs a 3% overhead. Obamacare was designed to reduce the "free enterprise" system's 24% overhead.

Which is better for the consumer? 3% or 24%?
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Old 15-11-2012, 11:29   #387
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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The biggest problem with the healthcare system is the shortage of people who eat a healthy diet and do their weekly exercise.
Actually its the polar opposite, people, especially women are living to a ripe old age, this represents a actuarial cost increase for health providers. Health providers would like all of you to die at 40!.

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Old 15-11-2012, 11:33   #388
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Government never does something cheaper or more efficiently than free-to-compete private enterprise...
like all generalisations , it is of course nonsense. Firstly making something "cheaper" is not necessarily a goal. Because cheaper is usually achieved by lowering quality, thats fine in my dishwasher, its not fine in education, medical support, water provision, refuse removal, public broadcasting, the arts, etc etc. These re not dishwashers and should not be treated like the are. They are part of makes a society, and that is not solely determined by efficiency or cost.

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Old 15-11-2012, 11:42   #389
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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This makes sense, but is it true? If an overweight, non-exercising, alcoholic smoker dies of a heart attack at age 55 doesn't this cost society less than the person who contracts prostate cancer at age 95?
My bet is the guy who died at 55 already had a bypass and other operations and paid far less tax than the guy who lived to 95 who for prostate probably wasn't operated on and died in his sleep. Just sayin.

Big worries with being overweight are diabetes and/or angina which are absolute goldmines for the health sector.
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Old 15-11-2012, 13:04   #390
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

Chronic disease is the largest portion of Medicare expenditures. The most expensive chronic disease is diabetes which accounts for somewhere around 10% of Medicare expenditures.

The most successful treatment of diabetes is exercise and diet, but failure on the part of those suffering from diabetes to adhere to a modified diet and exercise results in expensive drugs being used to control the disease.

Part of the problem with breaking out the costs of chronic disease is that many peeps suffer from more than one. In fact peeps suffering from five or more chronic diseases account for over 3/4 of Medicare expenditures.

Projected Costs of Chronic Diseases - Health Care Cost Monitor
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