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Old 12-11-2012, 07:32   #316
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
well I guess I'll join going off topic:

I don't really believe that the insurance companies care anything what so ever about costs as long as they can pass them on to insures! So the problem isn't with the insurance companies, it's with the health care industry itself
Don:
I remember hearing a quote from an insurance executive when asked what Obamacare means to him. He answered "anytime someone puts 2 trillion dollars on the table I'm interested" Though from what I understand Obamacare requires that 85% of the revenue the insurance company receives must be used for healthcare related expenses. What will be considered legit expenses is something that will be interesting to see. Will it mean more exams and procedures or will printing and mailing tons of brochures warning about the effects of smoking satisfy the requirements. I hope is it will mean more, better and cheaper healthcare services. I guess we will have to wait and see how it plays out. Still I think most business people would be VERY happy with a 15% profit. Though I guess there will be some overhead so let's make it 10% still not to shabby. But, with 30 million people added into the healthcare system may that 85% of revenue returned may not go that far either if healthcare costs stay where they are. In the end it will probably still be up to each of us to figure out which insurance provider provides the best bang for our bucks. Trouble it may take a few years to see who those companies and plans are. By then it will be time to go on Medicare!
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:43   #317
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Originally Posted by mbianka View Post
Don:
I remember hearing a quote from an insurance executive when asked what Obamacare means to him. He answered "anytime someone puts 2 trillion dollars on the table I'm interested" Though from what I understand Obamacare requires that 85% of the revenue the insurance company receives must be used for healthcare related expenses. What will be considered legit expenses is something that will be interesting to see. Will it mean more exams and procedures or will printing and mailing tons of brochures warning about the effects of smoking satisfy the requirements. I hope is it will mean more, better and cheaper healthcare services. I guess we will have to wait and see how it plays out. Still I think most business people would be VERY happy with a 15% profit. Though I guess there will be some overhead so let's make it 10% still not to shabby. But, with 30 million people added into the healthcare system may that 85% of revenue returned may not go that far either if healthcare costs stay where they are. In the end it will probably still be up to each of us to figure out which insurance provider provides the best bang for our bucks. Trouble it may take a few years to see who those companies and plans are. By then it will be time to go on Medicare!
Mike -
You might be interested in this article.

U.S. to Sponsor Health Insurance Plans Nationwide - NYTimes.com
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:01   #318
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Mike -
You might be interested in this article.

U.S. to Sponsor Health Insurance Plans Nationwide - NYTimes.com
Mambo:

Interesting thanks for posting it. I'm usually a little skeptical about Government run programs but, if it shakes things up and benefits us cruisers in positive way it will be good thing. Though things seem very fluid at the moment hopefully things will become a little clearer over the next year.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:17   #319
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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your house.

in the usa you could get a lawyer and sue the glass mfg for faulty labels and insufficient strength in the stem and gotten their house

just my thought and opinion
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in trinidad for hurricane season
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:19   #320
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

Offhand, I don't remember ever seeing Canada, England or any of the great European nations having any kind of referendum to remove their national healthcare. Is it possible that it actually works? If so, ours should also. Just sayin'
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:25   #321
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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in the usa you could get a lawyer and sue the glass mfg for faulty labels and insufficient strength in the stem and gotten their house

just my thought and opinion
chuck patty and svsoulmates
in trinidad for hurricane season
LOL - yeah, I would probably have had an ambulance chaser lawyer try to sign me up as soon as I got into the emergency waiting room.

LOL

Shouldn't really be laughing because sadly it's a way of life in the US and it is destructive - profitable for some but destructive to society.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:26   #322
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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I'm usually a little skeptical about Government run programs but, if it shakes things up and benefits us cruisers in positive way it will be good thing.
Skepticism is a good thing. But the U.S. Government's track record isn't all that bad. See for example this article:
Vets Loving Socialized Medicine Show Government Offers Savings - Bloomberg

Unfortunately obamacare, by and large, still maintains our dysfunctional private health care system. All it does is to establish a minimum standard for health insurance coverage, an individual mandate requiring most (but not all) people to have health insurance, and provides some financial assistance to the poorest people to get coverage.

The government "sponsored" plans mentioned in the NY Times story would still be private insurance offered as an alternative to other unsponsored plans.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:30   #323
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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This thread is at the point where I think everyone has had to voice their opinions on a very political subject. In general we do not allow gross political discussion on this forum, but healthcare does relate to cruising.

So has this thread ran its course? We are getting objections from some members who see this thread as far too political for this forum.

tookish, are you okay with closing the thread that you started? Do you have your answers?

Others, is it time to close this thread?
Maybe CF should consider a forum area just for politically related discussions, but limited it to topics which relate to cruising (like this one)?

While I doubt anyone here wants to see CF over run by political ranting (there are other places to go if you want that), there are certainly politically charged topics which are relevant to cruising.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:35   #324
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
Skepticism is a good thing. But the U.S. Government's track record isn't all that bad. See for example this article:
Vets Loving Socialized Medicine Show Government Offers Savings - Bloomberg

Unfortunately obamacare, by and large, still maintains our dysfunctional private health care system. All it does is to establish a minimum standard for health insurance coverage, an individual mandate requiring most (but not all) people to have health insurance, and provides some financial assistance to the poorest people to get coverage.

The government "sponsored" plans mentioned in the NY Times story would still be private insurance offered as an alternative to other unsponsored plans.
That is a very biased article at best. There are many more for whom the VA is a nightmare...

A couple of times in this thread the 'golden' military benefits have come up.... Reality is that retired military pay for their health care, and the premium is going up. The Va has some regions where the care is on par with the private sector but also has had some stunning failures.

I have 3 different doctors, in 3 states and while I am eligible to use the VA and pay the annual premium for my retired military health care I do not use either one and pay out of pocket....
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:03   #325
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

I don't see a really good reason to close the thread, as long as we are polite and respectful towards each each other and stay on the original topic.

Thanks everyone for keeping what is potentially a hot button topic relatively civilized.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:39   #326
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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........................Thanks everyone for keeping what is potentially a hot button topic relatively civilized.
I agree, I didn't think this topic would remain civil beyond the first few posts, but there's been much thoughtful discussion. Those who are bored with the length should "unsubscribe" or just nolonger select a viewing. 'and thanks again to all.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:46   #327
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

This thread has started me on the path of researching how other countries handle health care and charge for services. I thank the op and have gathered awesome insight from the posters on here. thank you all.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:49   #328
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This thread has started me on the path of researching how other countries handle health care and charge for services. I thank the op and have gathered awesome insight from the posters on here. thank you all.
Make sure you check out Japan. I am not sure it would be acceptable to Americans, but they do have an interesting system.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:50   #329
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
I don't know where you are getting info about addresses of record and not being able to have US accounts. I didn't see anything like that in the bill. It just says living in another country.
I figured folks could understand that in the USA citizens & LPR's need to have a land based "residence address" which contains an address that you have to put on all the various forms from banks, governments, marina registration forms, etc., etc. This address is what I personally title "address of record" since it is recorded on all the documents and forms we have to deal with inside the USA. You cannot participate in any financial activities - other than "cash under the table" type transactions without a paper trail that includes such an address.

In this modern age, wandering around the USA or the world without any "paper trail" is virtually impossible so under PPACA you would have a USA residence and have to either have "essential coverage" or pay the tax unless you are in an exempt category. It is the "one thing leads to another thing" thing.

Under PPACA, it appears that "living in another country" would logically mean that you have a residence permit from that other country and therefore would be obviously in the exempt category since you have an address in that other country.

All other USA citizens/LPR's including the normal categories of cruisers I mentioned would have to conform to the PPACA (when the final rules are written) and could not "opt out" unless they want to take the "outside the law" path. And that path would for cruisers be virtually impossible as such these folks could not have any financial dealings that are typical of folks who cruise.

Bottom line, it appears to be very "cut and dry" as to how the PPACA affects cruisers.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:08   #330
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

"That is a very biased article at best."

The article was a Bloomberg article. Hard to find a more free market, capitalist friendly bunch. If THEY are saying this you might want to reconsider ......
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