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Old 09-11-2012, 18:25   #166
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

Interesting thread, for a European.

Firstly , a Lot of people need to take a chill pill and stop engaging in " perception fear", There are masses of thread with people either making unfounded assumptions or quoting articles that themselves make even more unfound assumptions. Then you have the "we're doomed" , brigade, a group the US seems to generate in spectacular quantises

Then theres the ideologues, We all gone "socialist: ( as if any of them had an idea what that meant), or Gone like European liberal, euro zone etc etc.

Look folks, No state with subsidised medicine is happy with its scheme nor its costs, Having lived in several jurisdictions , The Uk one is by far close to the ideal , ie free healthcare right from GP to hospital etc. It has its problems too, of course. I have also been in Ireland ,which runs a dual public ( tax paid) and private ( health insurance) based model, and it also has many problems, ( mind you, its eyeing up a universal health insurance model , rather like Obamacare!) in france theres a 70% system ( to summarise ) with health insurance top ups.

The programs are all evolving as will "Obamacare". But bear in mind the overriding goal, we all have seen the huge costs of either Heath Insurance or the medical debt that US people can accrue, figures that always simply astound me. Taxation primarily exists to distribute wealth, in the form of things for the common good,I would argue that health and education fall utterly into that definition. No-one should ever be saddled with bills like that for mere health issues. Thats a failure of a good society, never mind the government.

Secondly have a bit more trust in the US, its will survive and prosper, Paradoxically , if you look outside healthcare ( which seems to be a blind side issue), its has many or more "socialist programs", go coin an awful phrase, then so called liberal European states. SO this health plan ( and Ive read it too, its certainly particularly perverse in places) is nothing really new in US terms.

Bear in mind your biggest socialist programme , US military funding. The US spends more then half of the all military spending in the world today. what is it for, certainly not defense I worked in the "military industrial complex" in the US for a while, you basically realise, its a huge state subsidy programme. IN other countries we have Gov lead employment grants, startup loans etc etc, IN the US its calling military spending.

Not trying to flame anyone, just that the notion that somehow "socialised medicine" is a thin edge of the wedge to socialism , is rather laughable in the context of US policy in general.

SO why not see how it goes , and join the rest of the world in bars , where after the weather and property prices, we like to whinge about the dreadful job the Gubberment is doing in Healthcare, think of all the common ground you bluewater cruisers will have in bars around the world ( ending on a boat note)

Dave
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Old 09-11-2012, 18:27   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow
Interesting thread, for a European.
Firstly , a Lot of people need to take a chill pill and stop engaging in " perception fear", S terms.
I'm not certain my current policy covers chill pills.
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Old 09-11-2012, 18:28   #168
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Can't help but think government is much like sailing. The idea out here is to protect life and property and experience true liberty. Doing it under sail as fast as we want and adapting to what is doled out. Government is entrusted to protect life liberty and property. While government is funding NIH FBI etc.... We are having a better time being our own commander in chief. Happily excepting that were independent. Except the GPS system was funded by our tax dollars. The buoys were funded by our ...coast gaurd... Social security is a mandated fee.
Can't really think of a better way to protect life then a universal health care package. We fund NIH federal and local dollars fund healthcare and hospitals all over the place. Why is it okay to fund some and not others to access healthcare?
Year over year the insurance guys raise rates. What increased. We need the infrastructure to provide quality health care to everyone. Not having that infrastructure is not an excuse. Here is to sailing and protecting life liberty and property with a fair wind not quite on our back sides.
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Old 09-11-2012, 18:31   #169
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?


OK, folks, let's tone down some of the rhetoric. I've removed some posts that don't comply with our "be nice" rule. If you're not sure of our rules, please review them here.

This is an important thread, most have behaved themselves well. We will close it down if the political sniping continues.
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Old 09-11-2012, 18:32   #170
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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I'm not certain my current policy covers chill pills.
like I said always room to improve "socialised medicine"!!
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Old 09-11-2012, 18:53   #171
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

Health care cost so much because off insurance. What would a pharmaceutical company charge you if nobody had insurance?... Answer= as much add they can, but what you can pay..... Because insurance removes the " caps "on prices, they keep going up. And we need even more insurance..
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Old 09-11-2012, 18:58   #172
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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I too agree this has been a informative discussion. I usually try to avoid religion and politics. I'm just still upset about this method of health care.

I also do agree (by a previous poster or different thread), that we have to start somewhere. I just hate when the Congress can op out. Then they have no reason to change the law in the future, it doesn't affect them.

I try to put things in a respectful way. If I offended anyone, it was not my intent.

I can never change anyone's mind. I don't try to. I just try to see their side, and them mine.

Some other participant stated the nature of our economy and it's apparent trajectory. I also agree, I can see nothing within reason to prevent catastrophe.

I love this country, and it hurts to see bad things on the horizon. Maybe only a mirage, it's still quite scary.

James L

Someone earlier mentioned good intentions sometimes having unintended consequences. We have that situation right now with almost anything of significance going on in Congress. Every two years, every representative and 1/3 of the senators are up for either re-election or defeat. People's memories are short, but 1/3 of the senators is a lot. For the House it's even worse -- they could *all* be given their walking papers.

They have to be extremely careful what they do on contentious issues such as this, no matter what they believe in their hearts. Voters say they're fed up with it, but a significant minority get angry easily and go to a "throw the bum out" mentality pretty easily as well.

They have to walk a fine line, and a precious few will be willing to sacrifice their congressional career over a vote or two. In fairness to them there's more than one issue and I think most are right-minded most of the time and want to help the country. They can't do that if they're voted out.
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Old 09-11-2012, 19:01   #173
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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I highly encourage. you to try., a.d you will learn very Quickly that. you are not eligable for them.

Anyone who has taught truly poor children know that hungry children do not learn well. I might well prefer that it were not necessary to provide breakfast, lunch, and even sometimes dinner at school, but teach them now or jail them later. Adults who cannot read and do basic arithmetic are highly dysfunctional people. I'm in favor of anything that reduces the numbers of adults in that spot.
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Old 09-11-2012, 19:04   #174
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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As resident in the US state od Maryland I became unemployed and lost my health ins. In Maryland as in many states if you are turned down by 2 or more providers you can join the state employees health program and cannot be rejected for pre existing conditions.

You have to pay for it 100% but with a large deductable it is affordable. The care level locally is beyond great.

As a cruiser it is not the cuts and scrapes that worry us it is the the bigger issues. Local clinics are cheap providers for the little stuff and the medicine at reasonable prices. A flu exam and antibiotics to see it through in the Bahamas cost about $35.

I have a copy of the "OBamacare" bill on my computer and have read it front to back. There are some great items in there and some truly disturbing things. I simply wish this would have been a step program starting with catastrophic health care.

The Pres made it easier to not lose your house because you bought a crappy mortgage.... I would have hoped Obama care would have helped you keep the house when you have catastrofic heath issues. It does not.

When I was young, that's what health insurance was for -- catastrophic illness. Unfortunately, for most insurance, you can have a catastrophic illness with health insurance and still end up bankrupt because it has caps. That's one of the things to be fixed under this plan.

There are certainly people who need even the most basic things covered, because their daily expenses barely cover the essentials of daily life -- food, clothing and shelter -- but a lot of us could pay for things health insurance covers now. I think we got greedy.
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Old 09-11-2012, 19:08   #175
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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There is no review board to "see if you are worthy" but perhaps there should be based largely on BMI I would argue.

I doubt the Affordable Care Act will cover any type of international coverage so unless you are talking about coastal US cruising, I wouldn't get excited.

if you are suggesting you are in the perfect position to get a free lunch based on your particular situation, I'm sure you won't be the first. Any congressman that has served 5 years then gets a full pension and health care comes to mind.
Rick Santorum comes to mind. Alan West will be SOL.

I think that would be rather cruel. I did the math on gaining weight. 3,500 extra calories in a pound. That means 35,000 extra calories in 10 lb. Sounds like a lot, right?

Divide it by 365 for each day of the year. Turns out it takes only 91 extra calories a day to gain ten lb. in a year.

No matter how hard psychologists, nutritionists and MD's have tried, they haven't yet found an effective way for people to lose AND keep off weight. 95% of those who lose weight gain some or all of it back.

It's so easy to judge other people, but there really is more involved than willpower. Same for cigarettes -- just outlaw the darned things! They're highly addictive, harder to kick than heroin, and cost us billions in extra medical costs.
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Old 09-11-2012, 19:14   #176
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Health care cost so much because off insurance. What would a pharmaceutical company charge you if nobody had insurance?... Answer= as much add they can, but what you can pay..... Because insurance removes the " caps "on prices, they keep going up. And we need even more insurance..
Not so , The experience in the UK , is that medical inflation is a huge problem. The bill for the NHS is a major issue.Its not as simple as purely an private insurance market.

Quote:
There are certainly people who need even the most basic things covered, because their daily expenses barely cover the essentials of daily life -- food, clothing and shelter -- but a lot of us could pay for things health insurance covers now. I think we got greedy.
Most serious health issues are "catastrophic", and given the typical costs quoted by some of your countrymen, how can some one on say 40-60K a year pay a bill of 50K, really its just nonsense. I dont believe its greed, theres no evidence of that. The fact is for a very wealthy country the US has a very skewed medical system with the rich looking after themselves and middle ground getting screwed. I dont see greed as a driver ( other the medical companies greed)
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Old 09-11-2012, 19:40   #177
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Not so , The experience in the UK , is that medical inflation is a huge problem. The bill for the NHS is a major issue.Its not as simple as purely an private insurance market.



Most serious health issues are "catastrophic", and given the typical costs quoted by some of your countrymen, how can some one on say 40-60K a year pay a bill of 50K, really its just nonsense. I dont believe its greed, theres no evidence of that. The fact is for a very wealthy country the US has a very skewed medical system with the rich looking after themselves and middle ground getting screwed. I dont see greed as a driver ( other the medical companies greed)

I don't mean having 50k in medical expenses paid is greedy. I meant people who demanded that their insurance cover more and more.
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Old 09-11-2012, 19:48   #178
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Just remember folks.....Rome owned the WORLD....and Rome fell. So can the U.S.A! We should never be so arrogant to think otherwise. Now I have more important things to do. Getting ready to go SAILING tomorrow!
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Old 09-11-2012, 20:37   #179
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

Single dose of Tylenol cost 12 dollars in the hospital. this is the price the hospital charges because an individual is not picking up the tab. To tab is picked up by then the insurance company.

bottle of Tylenol cost 6 dollars at the drugstore.6 dollars is what is charged because 6 dollars is 1 individual can pay out of pocket.

insurance is the cause of skyrocketing price is not the solution
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Old 09-11-2012, 20:38   #180
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Someone earlier mentioned good intentions sometimes having unintended consequences. We have that situation right now with almost anything of significance going on in Congress. Every two years, every representative and 1/3 of the senators are up for either re-election or defeat. People's memories are short, but 1/3 of the senators is a lot. For the House it's even worse -- they could *all* be given their walking papers.

They have to be extremely careful what they do on contentious issues such as this, no matter what they believe in their hearts. Voters say they're fed up with it, but a significant minority get angry easily and go to a "throw the bum out" mentality pretty easily as well.

They have to walk a fine line, and a precious few will be willing to sacrifice their congressional career over a vote or two. In fairness to them there's more than one issue and I think most are right-minded most of the time and want to help the country. They can't do that if they're voted out.
I hate to point this out, but my wife gave the same argument.

If the health care doesn't concern the person voting to change it, then what retribution will be served. So they didn't stay in Congress. Most Congressmen stay at least 5 years (the average is two terms or longer). They have nothing to be concerned about with regard to the health care, they are exempt from the "system".

It's just like voting themselves raises. They do it all the time. What will we do, get new ones, which are making more money, and will vote even more raises.

Where is the solution in that? I don't see it.

We are in the information age, why are we not voting for these items totally by popular vote? Are you telling me the technology is not available?

The powerful people keep the power......and the rest struggle to take it or get some.

It's just the way thing are. I don't see it changing, at least not for the better.

James L
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