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Old 09-11-2012, 16:19   #136
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

Could everyone just please put down their pre-conceptions, prejudices and favorite dead horses that apparently still need beating?
My OP was just about how we perceived the shift in healthcare costs would impact our ability to go cruising. I was curious if it would impact anyone else's if they were in a similar situation.
In my previous years of cruising I knew one thing: When the Sh*t hit the fan, everyone in the anchorage dropped everything to come help. Nobody asked for a deposit, a card or a referral. Nobody asked me my political party or my religious affiliation. Nobody asked me if I was a congressman, 1%'er or anything else. They just helped. It's the #1 thing we love about cruising. I trust each responder to this thread would do the same for each other. I know we would.
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:20   #137
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

OK, I'll take the hook...

The original poster mentioned that he, before Obamacare, was paying $1200 per month for health care. Now, with Obamacare, he'll only pay $395, and the difference ($805) will be paid by the taxpayers. This means that the reality is that Obamacare radically increases the demand for taxpayer dollars, the supply of which is already scarce. So the government will need to increase the supply of taxpayer dollars by raising taxes. As of right now, before Obamacare, our government borrows about 40% of everything it spends. So, in order to balance the budget, taxes would have to go up by 66.666% across the board (corporate tax, gas tax, income tax, fees, etc) just to break even ($40 is 2/3s of $60). Add the costs of Obamacare onto that, and taxes will have to go up even higher. Since a tax increase that large would destroy what's left of the economy, and since nobody in Washington knows how to cut spending, the only option is more debt until we have a total economic collapse.

That's America's future. Our government continues to live beyond its means, make promises that it can't possibly meet, and encourage more and more people to reach into a cookie jar that has been empty for decades.

But enjoy your cruising, Original Poster! Get out while you can!

(Maybe we should merge this thread with that "doomsday prepper" thread from a while back...)
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:20   #138
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
I broke my pinky last year. That was $13,000
(half my annual income)

It's simply unsustainable.
You should have gone to a vet. Much more efficient, no mucking around with protocol, no paperwork and because of all this - much cheaper & much more experience.
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:20   #139
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

I think the answer will be...........yes.

(but very likely will need to sort out own healthcare cover when foreign - as us "socialists" have to).


Anyway, welcome to the 21st Century to y'all (well, maybe at least to the late 20th ).
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:24   #140
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Originally Posted by propellanttech View Post
Not so much. Penicillin was an experimental drug at some point. Wonder how many people it saved.

I wonder how many "+1" you may put, if some organization who watches you decides some of your "recommendations" are not warranted?

Sorry.....I don't care what people think. This is not a good scenario.

This is freedom of choice, versus, not having been told there is one.

This is not a derogatory post towards you. It's just a point to consider.

I'm also not a fan of prescription meds being advertised. I think who ever passed that law needs to be beaten.

James L

Experimental drugs go mainstream when proven effective. We have a system for "fast-tracking" that process when the drug shows potential and fills a great need.

I agree with you; I think advertising of prescription drugs is really terrible, no matter how you look at it. Maybe we have people going into their doctor's office demanding a drug that isn't appropriate. Maybe we have people scared away from a drug they really would benefit from because of the "sound bybe" statements of side effects.

Pennicillin WAS an experimental drug at one time. During and after WWII there just wasn't enough of it. It was reserved for war wounds. As a result, all three of my cousins spent a total of 3 years in hospitals because their strep throat was not adequately treated. They all developed rheumatic fever. One was given last rites twice. Then she was given an experimental drug, still in testing phases -- our first steroid drug. She was one of five children given ACTH. It turned her around. She went on to be a state champion swimmer and safely had a baby.

I'm aware of these issues on a very personal and concrete level.

I do not think you have been derogatory toward me in any way. If I have come across that way in any way, it was not my intention. I have great respect for you and feel this has been a far more productive discussion than any I've seen in real life (last one I heard, I just ducked for cover!)

One insidious reason our costs are so high is that doctors will order extra tests in case they end up in course having to defend their decision to not do one. My doctor wanted to do a CT scan on my sore knee (because of my cancer history). I declined and told him nicely that it was his job to look for simpler solutions -- sprain, tendonitis, and if necessary, my oncologist would go looking for cancer. He was looking out for me from his point of view, but from mine -- no medicare yet, still paying off all those bills, and ... CT scans contain a LOT of radiation.

Turned out to be another side effect from that same medication -- that might have saved my life, but the side effects were just too much for me. But I digress. Point being, would have been a CT scan for no purpose at all. Nothing *at all* was wrong with the knee. It just ... hurt.
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:25   #141
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tookish1 View Post
Could everyone just please put down their pre-conceptions, prejudices and favorite dead horses that apparently still need beating?
My OP was just about how we perceived the shift in healthcare costs would impact our ability to go cruising. I was curious if it would impact anyone else's if they were in a similar situation.
In my previous years of cruising I knew one thing: When the Sh*t hit the fan, everyone in the anchorage dropped everything to come help. Nobody asked for a deposit, a card or a referral. Nobody asked me my political party or my religious affiliation. Nobody asked me if I was a congressman, 1%'er or anything else. They just helped. It's the #1 thing we love about cruising. I trust each responder to this thread would do the same for each other. I know we would.
Tookish, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to take such a very narrow look at such a broad topic.
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:26   #142
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Dividend income is after tax paid by the corporation. Should that be taxed twice? The investor bought the shares with after tax money, so the initial investment was tax in.

You don't get taxed twice on your salary, why should you investment income be taxed twice?
You still own your shares. It is not double taxation. Income under the tax code is "an accession to wealth clearly realized". Why is dividend income (or any other cap gain) not that? It is no different than receiving rent on a property you own.
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:27   #143
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Tookish, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to take such a very narrow look at such a broad topic.
I am only on page 5 of the thread, but I have to say I am pretty impressed by the civility and quality of the discussion!
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:28   #144
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

We've had Obamacare in Oz for years. In the last decade however the government has been trying to convince everyone to sign up to a private fund which in my situation is about $320 per month for a couple. For that price you get fairly prompt and thorough service through the private system with private hospitals that provide excellent service. It is true that you can get free medical care through the public system, but elective medical care (non life threatening) is underfunded so that it might take several years to wait for a hernia operation. Even cancer patients have to queue for amounts of time which guarantee that in some cases it will be life threatening by the time surgery is undertaken. Medicare in Australia is meant to be unattractive so that we all take out private insurance. I think it's an admission that government run departments can never be efficient. I do feel sorry for Americans who seem to be stuck with no good alternatives except to stay healthy.
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:28   #145
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

Do not know about you guys, but when I retire I will be going to the Caribbean.

Obamacare will not cover me in the Caribbean.

It's all good, No worries. I will take a box of bandages and pay for local dentist and doctors out of pocket as we go.
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:29   #146
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

Rakuflames: Sigh of resignation. You are correct. I never have been very reasonable anyways
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:34   #147
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
I do not think you have been derogatory toward me in any way. If I have come across that way in any way, it was not my intention. I have great respect for you and feel this has been a far more productive discussion than any I've seen in real life (last one I heard, I just ducked for cover!)
I too agree this has been a informative discussion. I usually try to avoid religion and politics. I'm just still upset about this method of health care.

I also do agree (by a previous poster or different thread), that we have to start somewhere. I just hate when the Congress can op out. Then they have no reason to change the law in the future, it doesn't affect them.

I try to put things in a respectful way. If I offended anyone, it was not my intent.

I can never change anyone's mind. I don't try to. I just try to see their side, and them mine.

Some other participant stated the nature of our economy and it's apparent trajectory. I also agree, I can see nothing within reason to prevent catastrophe.

I love this country, and it hurts to see bad things on the horizon. Maybe only a mirage, it's still quite scary.

James L
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:34   #148
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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Actually something very big has happened -- actually, several big things. Any number of attempts to torpedo it have failed, including a proposed amendment to the FL Constitution, and the leading Republican has announced that it's the law of the land and we have to find a way to live with it.

Not fighting over it any more will be a HUGE step forward, and will allow the better parts of both parties to look for ways to make it work better.
I agree. And it is also worth remembering that this bill was largely written by insurers and the center right in the government (just because they fought it afterward doesn't mean they didn't draft it first). It is *not* european style single payer healthcare. It is very much market driven and coverage models will also be driven by the market. We will almost certainly save money simply from the cost benefits of preventative care and non emergency room treatment. Having the system in place will also allow us to more clearly see other cost drivers and make intelligent choices (pharmecutical patents; advertising; clinics, etc). It is about time we took (in a nonpartisan sense) a "yes we can" attitude about healthcare because the fact of the matter is -- we must.
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:36   #149
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It sure will help as both my wife and I are un-insurable. I hope 5 years and counting...
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Old 09-11-2012, 16:38   #150
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Re: Obamacare = early retirement anyone?

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I am 56 with medical problems I could work through, or sit down and complain about. In a work state, I prefer to work. Now that the last nails in the coffin have lodged themselves and we have essentially become a socialist country, like it or not, I may as well give in and ride the current train.

I will be applying for disability, federal cheese programs, aid to dependant husbands, geezer assistance, free Obama phone, free housing, free transportation, free cable tv, free tires for my car, free toothpaste, free lunch, free dinner, free pizza by the slice, free softdrinks, free hard drinks, free water, free underwater, free shoes, free petroleum, free pet food, free shingles for my roof, free Christmas trees, and free Christmas gifts for under the tree.

If anyone knows of any other entitlements I am entitled to now that I am one of the members of the bloated useless eaters, let me know, as I am anxious to participate in this new great nation we became last Tuesday.

Is there any free larger sailboat programs I could get in line for?
I highly encourage. you to try., a.d you will learn very Quickly that. you are not eligable for them.
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