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Old 11-07-2015, 08:55   #31
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

Amy, there are people who can pull this off. And there are people who can't.

Skills and experience aside. But no one here can know which type you and your partner are. Maybe even you until you try. The fact that you even bothered to ask anyone, suggests that you may not be quite sure if you are or not.

One thing; you are young. You have time to recover if the whole thing fails utterly and you lose every dollar you put into it. Which is a distinct possibility.

This boat is A LOT OF WORK. And any way you do it will be A LOT OF MONEY.
And in the end, this decision is really all about the money. I live in Florida, in the US. It is hard to give away a ferro boat here. If it doesn't work out, you may have a real hard time selling it. And any money you put into it may be hard to recover. One question you might ask, and not necessarily of the seller, is how long has it been for sale? If the answer is, "two years it's worth wondering why no one else has jumped on it.

I would strongly recommend a survey by a reputable surveyor, also not suggested by the seller. If you can't afford the cost of the survey, It could be you can't afford this boat. Even a partial survey, one that saves money by not hauling it, would be very informative. Just having someone knowledgable and not involved looking over and testing all the systems on board will be invaluable.

Much depends on your plan. On whether or not you intend to actually sail and travel on it. That will require a much higher standard of maintenance and repair. If the add linked to in earlier posts is the boat, I notice pics of the engine are conspicuously absent.

If you plan to use it as a floating house, then the previously mentioned expense of dockage or mooring should be investigated. If you're going to anchor out to save money, then you need to be self sufficient. Your batteries have to be good. Your engine, generator and electrical and charging systems have to work. Your water tanks and plumbing, toilet and waste systems, ground tackle, refrigeration, galley and propane, etc.

Look into what it's costing now where it is. What's the owner's storm plan? What will your storm plan be? Can you afford to be instantly homeless if a typhoon wrecks and sinks it? This is stuff people who live on boats think about all the time.
And consider that boats, unlike houses (usually!) depreciate. Often all the way to zero. Especially if you lack the energy, time, and means to repair and maintain it.

But, it is a beautiful boat. And a lot of boat for the money. If the two of you are clever, energetic, resourceful, have an aptitude for fixing and refinishing, a talent for scrounging materials, equipment, and supplies for next to nothing, goal oriented, organized, work well together and able to put in a good days work month after month..... then go for it.

If you aren't all of those things, then this boat will either train you to become them, or break your bank and your heart. But you are young. You have time to heal both. And it will be a learning experience for sure.

One last consideration..... It's probably worth half what ever you have offered. Try backing out of the deal by revising your offer to that. Just to see how desperate the seller is to get rid of it.
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:39   #32
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

Interesting that there's not a single response from the OP.
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:45   #33
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgz3 View Post
Amy, there are people who can pull this off. And there are people who can't.

Skills and experience aside. But no one here can know which type you and your partner are. Maybe even you until you try. The fact that you even bothered to ask anyone, suggests that you may not be quite sure if you are or not.

One thing; you are young. You have time to recover if the whole thing fails utterly and you lose every dollar you put into it. Which is a distinct possibility.

This boat is A LOT OF WORK. And any way you do it will be A LOT OF MONEY.
And in the end, this decision is really all about the money. I live in Florida, in the US. It is hard to give away a ferro boat here. If it doesn't work out, you may have a real hard time selling it. And any money you put into it may be hard to recover. One question you might ask, and not necessarily of the seller, is how long has it been for sale? If the answer is, "two years it's worth wondering why no one else has jumped on it.

I would strongly recommend a survey by a reputable surveyor, also not suggested by the seller. If you can't afford the cost of the survey, It could be you can't afford this boat. Even a partial survey, one that saves money by not hauling it, would be very informative. Just having someone knowledgable and not involved looking over and testing all the systems on board will be invaluable.

Much depends on your plan. On whether or not you intend to actually sail and travel on it. That will require a much higher standard of maintenance and repair. If the add linked to in earlier posts is the boat, I notice pics of the engine are conspicuously absent.

If you plan to use it as a floating house, then the previously mentioned expense of dockage or mooring should be investigated. If you're going to anchor out to save money, then you need to be self sufficient. Your batteries have to be good. Your engine, generator and electrical and charging systems have to work. Your water tanks and plumbing, toilet and waste systems, ground tackle, refrigeration, galley and propane, etc.

Look into what it's costing now where it is. What's the owner's storm plan? What will your storm plan be? Can you afford to be instantly homeless if a typhoon wrecks and sinks it? This is stuff people who live on boats think about all the time.
And consider that boats, unlike houses (usually!) depreciate. Often all the way to zero. Especially if you lack the energy, time, and means to repair and maintain it.

But, it is a beautiful boat. And a lot of boat for the money. If the two of you are clever, energetic, resourceful, have an aptitude for fixing and refinishing, a talent for scrounging materials, equipment, and supplies for next to nothing, goal oriented, organized, work well together and able to put in a good days work month after month..... then go for it.

If you aren't all of those things, then this boat will either train you to become them, or break your bank and your heart. But you are young. You have time to heal both. And it will be a learning experience for sure.

One last consideration..... It's probably worth half what ever you have offered. Try backing out of the deal by revising your offer to that. Just to see how desperate the seller is to get rid of it.
Well put!
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:53   #34
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

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Originally Posted by Scout 30 View Post
Interesting that there's not a single response from the OP.
Even if the OP were a troll, the things that have been said in this thread, and the vehemence with which they've been said, may give casual passers-by with grand, impractical dreams enuff pause that they won't blow away their life's savings and personal relationships and have to spend years and years to recover.

It is true that money isn't EVERYTHING. But money is a hulluva long way out in front of whatever it is that's in second place ;-0)!

TrentePieds
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:02   #35
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

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Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Even if the OP were a troll, the things that have been said in this thread, and the vehemence with which they've been said, may give casual passers-by with grand, impractical dreams enuff pause that they won't blow away their life's savings and personal relationships and have to spend years and years to recover.

It is true that money isn't EVERYTHING. But money is a hulluva long way out in front of whatever it is that's in second place ;-0)!

TrentePieds
I agree. And it's not just the amount of money that too much boat consumes. A boat like this would also consume a huge amount of an owner's time and the stress would be enormous.
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:13   #36
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgz3 View Post
I live in Florida, in the US. It is hard to give away a ferro boat here. If it doesn't work out, you may have a real hard time selling it.
Believe me, ferro boats are just as difficult to give away in New Zealand too.
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:38   #37
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

I'm just going to add to the chorus of "beware"

Firstly, my wife and I have been sailing together for twenty years, and I wouldn't attempt a boat that size. 40..47 feet is the right size for what you want to do.

On a boat that size, there's no room for mistakes in handling. You can't cut someone off because you haven't internalized the rules of the road, you can miss your slip finger and just back down, you can't run aground without damage, etc. etc. etc. You really need to know how to sail and motor a boat at a professional level to deal with a boat of that size. It's not for learners.

Now, if you're just going to treat it as a floating condo, that's another thing altogether. For that purpose, I suppose it's just fine. But just docking a boat that size is extremely difficult, and you will pay by the foot for dockage everywhere. That means you're paying 1/3rd more than you need to every month for the entire time you live on your boat in slip fees, unless the plan is to live at anchor or mooring somewhere, in which case I have a whole different set of warnings for you.

The costs of maintaining a boat go up by its weight, not its length. You'll be spending 2X as much minimum to keep a 60' boat vs. a 40' boat.

The space is really not as necessary as you think. Seriously reconsider a smaller boat.
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:39   #38
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

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Believe me, ferro boats are just as difficult to give away in New Zealand too.
A "60 ft" ferro ketch (48 Ft BP) built by Samson Marine of Richmond (Vancouver) may years ago had been for sale for YEARS. Asking price had come down over the last four years, or so, from nearly $100K to $17K. Below decks she was intended to be a knock-off of Arthur Robb's famous and glorious "Radiant" design also known as "Renown".

Unless you are a VERY skilled cabinet maker you canna jam that much accommodation into a 48 footer and have it function, let alone look decent. This one was a pig contrived from lumberyard ply and closet lining.

The Standing Rigging was newish and, at first blush, in good condition - say $50K's worth. Masts were Sitka Spruce in need of attention. Engine a 50-horse Perkins. Hadn't turned in 4 years.

Never bothered to look at the sails.

I told the seller that I would buy the boat on the following terms: Seller to pay four years moorage in her present slip. Seller to pay me $30.00/hr for all work required to pass survey, materials and parts at owner's expense. Seller to pay for haul-out, remediation of hull damage and for antifouling. Seller to pay for complete tear-down and rebuild of engine. Seller to pay for coming into compliance with all Canadian Coast Guard and Industry Canada Radio Communications requirements.

If, at the end of four years, he was still meeting those terms, I would pay him $20K cash on the barrelhead for the "restored" vessel.

Owner' face took on a pained look, and his request that I depart wasn't couched in language that I would suffer my children to hear :-0)!

I gather that some poor sod has picked her up for $9K!

For years we had abandoned Samson (ferro) hulls sitting on the banks of the Fraser River. Only thing you can do with a pig like that (at vast expense) is to tow 'er out to sea and make an "artificial reef" of 'er.

TrentePieds
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:46   #39
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

Maybe check out these guys in NZ.
https://www.facebook.com/awsc.ne
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Old 11-07-2015, 19:17   #40
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgz3 View Post
Amy, there are people who can pull this off. And there are people who can't.

Skills and experience aside. But no one here can know which type you and your partner are. Maybe even you until you try. The fact that you even bothered to ask anyone, suggests that you may not be quite sure if you are or not.

One thing; you are young. You have time to recover if the whole thing fails utterly and you lose every dollar you put into it. Which is a distinct possibility.

This boat is A LOT OF WORK. And any way you do it will be A LOT OF MONEY.
And in the end, this decision is really all about the money. I live in Florida, in the US. It is hard to give away a ferro boat here. If it doesn't work out, you may have a real hard time selling it. And any money you put into it may be hard to recover. One question you might ask, and not necessarily of the seller, is how long has it been for sale? If the answer is, "two years it's worth wondering why no one else has jumped on it.

I would strongly recommend a survey by a reputable surveyor, also not suggested by the seller. If you can't afford the cost of the survey, It could be you can't afford this boat. Even a partial survey, one that saves money by not hauling it, would be very informative. Just having someone knowledgable and not involved looking over and testing all the systems on board will be invaluable.

Much depends on your plan. On whether or not you intend to actually sail and travel on it. That will require a much higher standard of maintenance and repair. If the add linked to in earlier posts is the boat, I notice pics of the engine are conspicuously absent.

If you plan to use it as a floating house, then the previously mentioned expense of dockage or mooring should be investigated. If you're going to anchor out to save money, then you need to be self sufficient. Your batteries have to be good. Your engine, generator and electrical and charging systems have to work. Your water tanks and plumbing, toilet and waste systems, ground tackle, refrigeration, galley and propane, etc.

Look into what it's costing now where it is. What's the owner's storm plan? What will your storm plan be? Can you afford to be instantly homeless if a typhoon wrecks and sinks it? This is stuff people who live on boats think about all the time.
And consider that boats, unlike houses (usually!) depreciate. Often all the way to zero. Especially if you lack the energy, time, and means to repair and maintain it.

But, it is a beautiful boat. And a lot of boat for the money. If the two of you are clever, energetic, resourceful, have an aptitude for fixing and refinishing, a talent for scrounging materials, equipment, and supplies for next to nothing, goal oriented, organized, work well together and able to put in a good days work month after month..... then go for it.

If you aren't all of those things, then this boat will either train you to become them, or break your bank and your heart. But you are young. You have time to heal both. And it will be a learning experience for sure.

One last consideration..... It's probably worth half what ever you have offered. Try backing out of the deal by revising your offer to that. Just to see how desperate the seller is to get rid of it.
good post, couldn't agree more ⛵️
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Old 11-07-2015, 19:37   #41
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

go for it make it happen there is plenty of youtube advise in live aboard sail boat life style hundred of families do sailing around the world for thousands of years. My personal opinion there better for it. True it is hard at first and no you don't have to have sailed before to by a boat. Although seek as much advice you can in person. Find a local ship wright and and keep up the dream. Like I said Teresa Carey on you tube and there a couple others they started with very little and now are for them successful. They are terrific people full of hope and wonder to explore.
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Old 11-07-2015, 20:19   #42
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

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Interesting that there's not a single response from the OP.
CF can be a very scary place.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:01   #43
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

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CF can be a very scary place.
Pales in comparison to buying a 60' ferrocement boat. That would scare the **** out of me!
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:25   #44
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

If you're really seriously interested in buying this boat the most important thing you can do is hire a surveyor that has a lot of experience with ferro-cement boats. I'd hire two. A good surveyor will save you far more money than he will cost.
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Old 12-07-2015, 16:51   #45
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Re: No Sailing Experience / Buying a Boat = Stupid?

Do not by ferro cement sailboats. all thou all sailboats have there issues ferro cement if there is a hidden issue the surveyor misses you may as well walk away from said boat. get some photos put on the forum site. who much are you paying for sailboat. gee you must be looking at 80 to 100.000 thousand for this boat before you get to sail. Feeling that there will be plenty of finical squalls coming your way if you buy a cement boat.
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