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Old 26-08-2015, 15:45   #16
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

Shadow the dog looks very nice and friendly. I would have a hard time leaving a dog like that that I had raised too.

Given that his ears are not cropped and up, you might try passing him off as a very large Dachshund, because of his coloring.
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:16   #17
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

What a beautiful pup you have Laika. I love the breed, but didn't think they'd do to well in warm climates. Good to see you have a big dog on board. Most that I've seen are half that size. Really, That's the first I've seen even close to Shadows weight. Shadow is slightly bigger and taller and very top heavy. (I call him an american muscle car.... He can go straight and fast, but don't ask him to turn at speeds....It just down right funny watching him tumble).

Steady: If I could go back and crop them I would. I was against it and actually thought it was wrong .... but later learned it's for health reasons. After multiple ear infections with my lil furrball, I absolutely would crop them. Hindsight's 20/20 though. LOL


a few Questions (yes, I've searched).
Are there any hidden Gems I'm missing when it comes to Bilge Keel'rs.
The Centaur 26 seems like a great buy honestly.
great reputation, sturdy and SAFE boat for crossings, circum'd a few times by various Capn's.
It seems perfect for a starter and usually cheap. My only issue would be storage.Would I be able to fit enough supplies to be gone for along while on it ?

I also like most of the Endeavors layout too, but they are mostly fin keel.
the 32' and 33' seem awesome.

I do know and have researched the main difference in the 2, and how it affects the speed and Windward movement drastically. I really would like to just pull it up to the beach at high tide and clean it off at low tide.
Let me go ahead and throw this out there. I'm not buying a sailboat (of all the boats out there....really c'mon) to go fast. I find it rather comical whenever I hear of someone going "fast" in a sailboat. I'm always left wondering .... compared to what ? a row boat ?
I'm sure I'll catch some hell for that..... but it's just what goes through my mind every time I see a "racing" sailboat. I've never been on a sailboat other than the little one I used in the boy scouts .... So maybe they are super fast. LOL IDK.... Someone go ahead and correct me there.
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:38   #18
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

LIST


Things I feel I need on a sailing vessel:
Good sails and rigging
recently rebuilt or serviced Diesel inboard
Freezer
Oven/stove combo
Ample supply of Food storage
Solar Power
Water Maker
VHF Radio
GPS ( will learn the old fashion way first, for when this does go out)
Chart plotter
Dinghy with small but solid outboard


Things I will need because of her:
Head (not bucket style)
Radio (for music)
Ample storage for liquor (LOL, JK)

Things I will want:
Radio as well, who am I kidding I love music too
Bimini top (I'm very pigment challenged)
Snorkeling gear
Fishing Gear


All are subject to change and will be added upon.
Feel free to throw some things out there that you find as a "Must have" or No, don't waste your time"
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Old 26-08-2015, 19:51   #19
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

hi

You asked about the Centaur 26. It is highly recommended by Boatman61 (an experienced delivery skipper). I looked at them online, and like the volume inside for the LOA.

You mentioned you want two boats. First boat for lake cruising and sailing in NC and then later a larger boat for coastal cruising or Bahamas. My comments below are focused on the weekend lake sailer boat. You may want the listed items if going for longer distance or length of cruise.

You posted some list below. I will make a few responses to those items in BLUE TEXT. See below.

The Centaur has a bilge keel. I don't know how much you know about those, but it may prove useful in some areas (UK) but not as important in the USA (perhaps in PNW). Main use is for "drying out" the boat where there are tides that have a lot of height (very high and low).

I would not necessarily focus on the Centaur 26 because they are more common in UK and not so common here (rare to my view) in the USA. You will have few to choose from in the USA.

A more common 26-27 foot boat for lake sailing in the USA will be the Catalina 27 or CAL or Hunter or similar brands. There are many of those to choose from and when you are ready to sell it later, you will have an easier time finding someone who wants that kind of boat.

My comments in BLUE TEXT below are intended for the smaller boat (for lake sailing).

About Bahamas?
I recently enjoyed reading the entire blog adventure of one of our nice CF members (Sumner) who took a 26 foot sailboat to the Bahamas by himself. If you read his blog you will find a lot of good info and tips and photos to show you what to expect. It is the best I have seen so far of any blog about a trip to the Bahamas. Well worth spending time reading it. Also, he has an Endeavour 37 boat for sale now. I enjoyed sailing on one of those and think it would be fine for sailing Florida and Bahamas or even beyond. I went from Hawaii to California on one. His boat is in the Florida Keys now as I recall. You can find photos and info about both of his boats on his blog:
Our 37 Endeavour --- Our 26 MacGregor --- Trips With Both


Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingJeeper View Post
LIST


Things I feel I need on a sailing vessel:
Good sails and rigging YES
recently rebuilt or serviced Diesel inboard Probably not important to restrict your search to only those which have a recently rebuilt or serviced Diesel. Most lake sailers have very few miles (hours) on the diesel engines, I suspect.

Freezer Nice, but an icebox with two bags of ice should be enough for a weekend.
Oven/stove combo For weekends? I would not expect an oven to be important. Many meals don't require them. And it would be nice to take the lady to a restaurant after a day's sailing.
Ample supply of Food storage
Solar Power Not so important for a weekend lake sailer.
Water Maker Not so important for a weekend lake sailer.
VHF Radio
GPS ( will learn the old fashion way first, for when this does go out)
Chart plotter Not so important for a weekend lake sailer.
Dinghy with small but solid outboard Not so important for a weekend lake sailer.


Things I will need because of her:
Head (not bucket style)
Radio (for music)
Ample storage for liquor (LOL, JK)

Things I will want:
Radio as well, who am I kidding I love music too
Bimini top (I'm very pigment challenged)
Snorkeling gear
Fishing Gear


All are subject to change and will be added upon.
Feel free to throw some things out there that you find as a "Must have" or No, don't waste your time"
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Old 26-08-2015, 20:29   #20
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

You might also consider an engineless trailer-sailer for your first boat. See if both of you think sailing's fun, and learn how relative speed can seem "fast" and even exciting.

Ann
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Old 26-08-2015, 20:52   #21
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

I second the idea of your gal getting sail training from a Woman. Women Under Sail here in Maine is excellent, I've done their basic and advanced classes. She will love it.
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Old 26-08-2015, 22:44   #22
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

OK I don't want to see you separated from buddy without need. First you have described two different scenarios. A short term, on lake for day or basically weekend sailing; and a longer term cruising scenario. Your list contains some things that will overlap and some that don't. And a few things I've learned the hard way just aren't needed. Permit me to take a crack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingJeeper View Post
LIST


Things I feel I need on a sailing vessel:
Good sails and rigging Check all or both can be replaced and will over the course of time, there is no need to start with this.

recently rebuilt or serviced Diesel inboard

Unless abused, such as mine (blush) diesels are remarkable machines with long lives. Have a mechanic check it out. It need not be new or recently rebuilt. That just adds to the price.

Freezer
For trips up to a week, a simple ice chest with a load of dry ice in the bottom will keep foods frozen for up to a week. For longer term cruising you can look into this but on the smaller boat it just takes up space.

Oven/stove combo
Again, for trips up to a week a camp stove will work just fine. If you want the oven, you can either learn to use a collapsible Coleman oven on the stove or a pressure cooker. Think simple. For longer cruises on a bigger boat, I like both but I've got more room.


Ample supply of Food storage
This was a major screw up on my first boat. You would have thought I was crossing oceans with all the stuff I put on board, and later had to throw out. In truth, for your lake ventures, besides perhaps keeping some staples like coffee, tea, and such along with maybe something for the odd time, you don't need it. Come to the dock with what you need for that trip and very little more. Perhaps some dish detergent, paper towels and such. If you want to be able to extend that a day or three, fine. Some rice or pasta or even good old MRE's.

For the longer cruises, basically same answer. Check and see what is expensive, or hard to find where you are going. Maybe some extra paper towels, spare batteries, and some of your favorites like a special brand of peanut butter or coffee. Cruising the Bahamas and such will usually mean relatively short sails of a day or three max. Some will be a bit longer but you don't need months of food.

Solar Power

Maybe just maybe a small panel on the weekend boat to top off the battery. But you will not have much power draw, especially without a fridge. Replace your lights with LED's , a reasonable stereo, even a small flatscreen TV run on a Home Depot inverter and you will find your power requirements minimal. Solar has become much more efficient, smaller panels put out a lot more than they used to.

On the larger boat, for longer cruising, look at the problem when you are ready. Solar panels, electronics and such are constantly changing. Evaluate you boat at the time to decide what you might want or need for extra power.

Water Maker

Lake boat? Forget it. Way to much space, way to much power and you will not need that much. A couple of jugs for drinking, a solar shower for a quick cleanup and you will be good to go. Plus you won't be spending all that time sanitizing water tanks.

Cruiser? Depends, I hold 180 gallons and it is a rare trip when I need more than 80. Evaluate that when you need it. Try to avoid buying tech until you need it. It changes too fast.

VHF Radio

Most definitely on either type of boat. The only difference is that on a lake boat a waterproof handheld may do fine.

Cruising boat, you may want two or more for backups. Also, now there are such features as DSC and AIS receivers incorporated. Repeat, do not buy until ready. The products just change too fast.

GPS ( will learn the old fashion way first, for when this does go out)

Probably don't need it on the lake. If you wish to get familiar a small handheld, or your smartphone will do just fine.

Cruiser, as above, wait until you need it. Even five years ago I could not have predicted what is currently available.



Chart plotter

Same answer as above. Use your smartphone on lake. Plenty off apps.

Dinghy with small but solid outboard

Ahh! Now you're getting to the nitty gritty. Particularly if you want to include your dobie. It's also a tough one. For your first lake cruiser, many dinghy's may be almost as long as you! Because you're furry friend is, as you say a bit top heavy, that leaves out most ridgid hull dinghys. First time he jumped in our out, a lot of you are going swimming.

That leaves inflatables, very stable and several choices. In ascending order of price, those with wooden floors, roll-up floors (either HP or aluminum) or ridged hull. As far a lake sailing, I think I would opt for one of the rollups. Relatively easy to store, middle of the line expensive. Also, because the lake conditions are relatively benign compared to open ocean you could simply tow it. The lake boat being smaller would not have such a huge distance for your pal to jump in or out, nor are the distances to be traveled on water very far.

Depending upon the height of your freeboard, it may be possible to rig a small gang plank between the boat and the dink. I'll leave that to your Corp ingenuity and a bit of experimentation.

Cruising boat, similar problem. You probably will want a bit more robust dinghy and will not want to tow it, unless you are ready to lose it. As to the dog? I suggest you search the forum a bit. You are not the first or last to have this problem. In my case, for the bigger dog I just might put his life jacket on and use a spare halyard to lift him in and out. A more difficult problem will be how he reacts to rough weather, and you will get some. Again, you are not the first, check the forum. I think I read of someone that actually made a hammock below for their dog. The boat rocked and rolled but he stayed pretty comfy.


Things I will need because of her:

Head (not bucket style)

Depends on the boat. Some smaller boats will come with a conventional head and some porta-potties. As an aside my wife is looking at property on a lake in KY. No big power boats, jet skis, or permanent heads!!

Larger boats almost always have permanently installed heads, there are many variations available. Don't get hung up on it. They can always be changed.


Radio (for music)

Trivial, there is always a few extra inches for a stereo or an i-pod player with speakers.

Ample storage for liquor (LOL, JK)

I'll leave that one up to the two of you. Don't forget room for doggy treats.

Things I will want:
Radio as well, who am I kidding I love music too
Bimini top (I'm very pigment challenged)
Snorkeling gear
Fishing Gear

All personal choices. You might want to add a small grill, so as not to heat up the cabin. A glass of wine, something on the barby, some nice music, ahhh. Oops, time for the pup to go ashore.

Well now that I've written the nautical version of war and peace, I let you have time to digest it and for others to agree or disagree.

Just concentrate on this boat. Not the next one. I have a very favorite quote from the author Robert Heinlein, in Waldo Incorporated.

"Once you properly define the problem, you have 90% of the solution"

Have fun guys,


All are subject to change and will be added upon.
Feel free to throw some things out there that you find as a "Must have" or No, don't waste your time"
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Old 27-08-2015, 12:54   #23
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

Ahhh YES !!!!
I knew there'd be some good info that came from this. I apologize as I didn't really specify the list would be for the final boat..... or in the case of a 26ft'r ..... the same boat... possibly? An option I had not thought of when originally jumping into this, would be just get the (1) 26fter that would work in the lake as well as Oceans. That's something I can trailer to the Sea once ready. Originally I didn't think that was an option as I thought "bigger is better", and I need something huge (to me) around 40 ft.
and hauling a 40ft boat to sea would be way to expensive. A lil Centaur would possibly work though.
List for a weekend sailor would be much much less.
Really just need it to go forward in the water. LOL Carry a cooler and stuff. Kind of like camping .... but on the water ... and the tent would be nicer (a boat). LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
You might also consider an engineless trailer-sailer for your first boat. See if both of you think sailing's fun, and learn how relative speed can seem "fast" and even exciting.

Ann
Not a bad idea either. I think an engine would be needed around these here lakes. Lake Norman (from my research) has a few good windy months in Spring and Fall, but It's still hit or miss then. I'd hate to just sit on a lake if trying to go somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
About Bahamas?
I recently enjoyed reading the entire blog adventure of one of our nice CF members (Sumner) who took a 26 foot sailboat to the Bahamas by himself. If you read his blog you will find a lot of good info and tips and photos to show you what to expect. It is the best I have seen so far of any blog about a trip to the Bahamas. Well worth spending time reading it. Also, he has an Endeavour 37 boat for sale now. I enjoyed sailing on one of those and think it would be fine for sailing Florida and Bahamas or even beyond. I went from Hawaii to California on one. His boat is in the Florida Keys now as I recall. You can find photos and info about both of his boats on his blog:
Our 37 Endeavour --- Our 26 MacGregor --- Trips With Both
Been reading up a bit on them today. Thanks. I see some sweet mods they did to get the most out of both of their boats.

Cabo - As always thanks !!!
Shadow is not the most water loving of dogs. He grew up on a small lake and never once went swimming (on his Own). He likes to get chest high and that's it. We could never get him in a canoe or row boat, and just wined and looked pitiful when we pretty much forced him into either.That only happened once..... It was enough to see he was uncomfortable and scared. Teh canoe didn't work for him ....we got a bath that day. I'm still going to see how he does on something larger than 10ft long. Hopefully a few weekends on something on the lake .... might get him a little more comfortable. Time will tell.
Good info on my list. By all means write on. I don't mind reading and learning from you Saltys. All is taken into consideration and It's far easier to learn from others mistakes, rather than learn them from my own. Granted ..... I'll be making plenty as I always do. LOL. I just know it.

I've hit up the Lake Norman yacht Club today and have asked about learning to sail. Not a big step ..... but a step none the less. I'll learn by myself and her too. I do like the idea of separate learning. great suggestion.
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Old 27-08-2015, 20:24   #24
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

My little English Setter hated water. Then one day in the mountains he and another dog started rolling in cow ****.

We tossed both in the back of the pickup and drove to a nearby lake. Picked each one up, waded out hip deep, field gear, boots, and all and tossed them in.

Within about 20 min my pooch was wandering shoulder deep along the shore hunting frogs. Moral? Just like people a certain amount of experience will cut back fear. The rest of the summer he joined me in the canoe while fishing. Funniest thing in world when he dipped head over side to "smell" stringer. Head in water and a steady stream of bubbles. I miss him even after all these years.

Rich

Give him a chance, he's just a pup. A trip to lakeshore, something to retrieve, who knows?

Rich


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Old 27-08-2015, 21:12   #25
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

I bought a V27 with the idea that it would be a flexible ocean-worthy boat to own..at a beam of 8'8" it could still be trailered without a wide load permit and it was small enough to justify owning even if I wasn't committed to full time cruising. At the same time, it was built explicitly for a couple to cruise the oceans of the world in "comfort".

Small boats have a lot going for them, but then so do bigger boats. At some point I will likely get a larger boat. Definitely when little spritzels start scampering about. But it's going to be really hard to part with the current boat that at this point has really become an extension of myself. Tons of sweat equity and ungodly sums of money.

If you buy a worthy little boat for the lake and come to find it's too small for what you want full-timing, you may have wasted a lot of time and money. And it seems likely that if you buy "the boat" for the lake you will find many more ways to drop money into it as opposed to if you'd just bought a "lake boat" to mess around with. Plus, a lake boat would be much more fun to sail on Lake Norman. You'd also be able to learn a lot of what NOT to do, both sailing-wise and maintenance-wise on a 'practice boat'. For me, that was a friend's 40'

Anyway, just some ramblings here. There are certainly no clear cut answers, but I bet you'll be happy however ya slice it.
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Old 28-08-2015, 16:21   #26
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

Little update.... I've signed up and paid for some sailing classes over on Lake Norman. the place is also selling a Cat 27 for a good price. I may look it over, but not really ready to purchase yet.
Classes start on Oct 5 and I'm pretty excited.
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Old 28-08-2015, 16:24   #27
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Re: New Here and to Sailing // I'd like to share a bit // and I have a few questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by laika View Post
I bought a V27 with the idea that it would be a flexible ocean-worthy boat to own..at a beam of 8'8" it could still be trailered without a wide load permit and it was small enough to justify owning even if I wasn't committed to full time cruising. At the same time, it was built explicitly for a couple to cruise the oceans of the world in "comfort".

Small boats have a lot going for them, but then so do bigger boats. At some point I will likely get a larger boat. Definitely when little spritzels start scampering about. But it's going to be really hard to part with the current boat that at this point has really become an extension of myself. Tons of sweat equity and ungodly sums of money.

If you buy a worthy little boat for the lake and come to find it's too small for what you want full-timing, you may have wasted a lot of time and money. And it seems likely that if you buy "the boat" for the lake you will find many more ways to drop money into it as opposed to if you'd just bought a "lake boat" to mess around with. Plus, a lake boat would be much more fun to sail on Lake Norman. You'd also be able to learn a lot of what NOT to do, both sailing-wise and maintenance-wise on a 'practice boat'. For me, that was a friend's 40'

Anyway, just some ramblings here. There are certainly no clear cut answers, but I bet you'll be happy however ya slice it.

Ramble on my friend. I'm more or less playing allot of this by ear until I further understand what all I will want ... budget...Mechanics, if she likes it, etc, etc.
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