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Old 05-05-2013, 11:54   #1
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pirate Need your help picking between 2 boats! :)

Hi folks,

I am about to buy my first sailboat to liveaboard. I have it narrowed down to two boats and would appreciate your feedback to help me pick, hopefully the better choice.

I plan to liveaboard it in a marina on the north east (NYC) and head south to warmer waters (Mexico) in the colder months. Plan on keeping it as much coastal cruising as possible.

The boats are both Oday 272. Here is a link to their general specs: I Heart O'Days - Model Information - O'Day 272

These are my two options:

1) An inboard diesel for $8000.

2) An brand new Honda 9.9 outboard for $8400. But it comes with a $400 GPS so they are about the same price at the end of the day.

In more detail:
1) The diesel is the 30 year old that came stock, it looks in ok shape, it runs. There is grime underneath the engine and it smelled pretty strong. The marina took a look and supposedly its not a leak, just crud that has been accumulating for who knows how long. The rest of the boat looks clean and well maintained. I am assuming that a good cleaning effort under the engine will get rid of the stink.
- It has a marine head.
- No shore power (I can wire that myself, but it will be atleast $100 and change, probably more like $300).
- Includes a mantis umbrella.
I like that its a diesel for better rough sea performance/safety. The marina however cannot get this boat launched for me for another month, and I am already paying for the slip..

2) The other boat has a brand spanking new Honda 9.9 with the cockpit controls, electric start, battery that charges from it and has shore power wired on. I like the fact that it gives me more storage space inside for liveaboard stuff, I like that I can easily and cheaply get new parts compared to the older diesel (its a westerbeke 10/2), I like that it has zero smells in the cabin, I like that it will be risk free as its new, I like that I know how to work on 4stroke gas engines (moto mechanic). What I fear is that it will add another 2 - 3 feet to my LOA and end up costing $50+ a month to just hang there. For $50 I can get a storage facility locally that is 5x5 or get a bigger boat! I really fear its crappy performance while in rougher water. I do like that there is no stuffing box to fiddle with and sink the boat.

This boat also comes with a portapotty.. which is a no go, however it means I can upgrade to a composting toilet ($800) without having to pull smelly hoses, tanks, and worry about the thru hulls leaking (or glassing them). Its an extra expense, but it seems I would have a better toilet for my needs (eco and simple) and also gain alot of storage space under the V-Berth for clothing that would otherwise have the holding tank. I have never used a regular marine head, so maybe its not so bad.. if I get the diesel I could live with that and upgrade at a later point.

This boat has brand new hardware for the lines, etc.

This boat has a few blemishes, the wooden door to the cabin got ripped up by a raccoon, so I will have to go to HomeDepot and work somthing out. The V-berth hatch lock is broken, so I will have to rig something up or replace ($350 new). Both winches work, however one sounds odd.. its dull rather than the usual brigther clicking sound as it spins past the pins. It does seem to work, just sounds off. So I am assuming I will have to rebuild it?

The nice thing about this boat is that its just had the bottom painted and is already launched, so I can have it asap.


Here are pics of them:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5fg1vqbij48suue/A2UF50L-Ve (might take a few to upload on my end)

Note, there is a 3rd boat on there with an old (15year) yamaha outboard that is also an option for the same price.


So my general questions:

1) Would you recommend I stick with the diesel and the marine head at the loss of internal storage but shorter LOA? Or do you see the stink free new outboard as a better motor considering all the extra storage I get inside?

2) How hard is it to strip out the old marine head from the diesel boat and put in a composting toilet. Is it easy to leave the thru halls shut without having to glass them over?


Thanks for your feedback guys
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Old 05-05-2013, 14:25   #2
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Re: Need your help picking between 2 boats! :)

Leandro,

Living in New York, can you legally dispose of the product from your proposed compostiing toilet? (Everybody has different rules and regulations, and getting caught ignoring the law has various consequences.)

If you're seriously considering the diesel engined option, why not pay to have an engine oil analysis done? Have the injectors been checked? Have you checked on parts availability for the engine? If the engine's in good nick, then new fuel hose, carefully installed, may get rid of the diesel smell, if that's what the boat has. If the fuel pump's leaking, a more expensive story. Are there any visible traces of fuel leaking, or of cleaning up such a leak? Possible fuel tank leak as source for the smell? The Mark I eyeball can help you a lot here.

P.S. The more initiative you show on CF, the better grade help you'll get. Lookit, I'm a 73 year old girl! You want more than that, surely?!
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Old 05-05-2013, 15:27   #3
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Re: Need your help picking between 2 boats! :)

Replace the 30-year old diesel engine. Have the boat professionally wired to accommodate shore power. Resolve the head issue with a less messy/smelly one. Choose the one with the smallest keel. Now, make your decision! Mauritz
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Old 05-05-2013, 15:47   #4
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Re: Need your help picking between 2 boats! :)

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, leandroflaherty.
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Old 05-05-2013, 15:48   #5
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Re: Need your help picking between 2 boats! :)

For any blue water the diesel will be better, and allow battery charging also. What brand engine is it? Heads etc are expensive to do the whole package, so keep that in mind , a nd I would negate any advantage of used electronics. Dont negate things like Sail age, riggin condition/age etc in the decision though. It can be done with the outboard.
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Old 05-05-2013, 17:50   #6
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Re: Need your help picking between 2 boats! :)

friend of mine just bought an oday 272 on ebay ($3000). it came with it's original westerbeke one cylinder raw water cooled diesel engine. she had a mechanic go over it and repair/replace whatever. $1000 well spent. everything else she can fix herself. she's also a really good sailor.

if you actually intend to go new york/mexico/new york every year, don't consider anything but a diesel.
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Old 05-05-2013, 18:19   #7
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Re: Need your help picking between 2 boats! :)

Out board motors are cheaper, lighter and easier to maintain than inboard diesels in medium sized yachts, yet the vast majority of such boats have inboard diesels.

There must be a reason... could be hype by builders, could be mass hysteria on teh part of the boating public, or, perhaps they just work better at providing auxiliary power for sailboats. What do you think?

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:15   #8
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Re: Need your help picking between 2 boats! :)

The only rub with OB's is that they lift out of the water in choppy seas, even a well built into the aft of the boat is often problematic (scooping water up into the well) a lot of internet discussion on these issues. If you've ever owned a sailboat with OB and needed to get somewhere in chop or worse... well... it's problematic. Not sure I would call the new breed of OB's easy to work on either. 2 stroke OB's tend to wear out fairly fast compared with a diesel. Sure they'l last for years, but how many hours is that really when it's only used on the dink?
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:33   #9
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Re: Need your help picking between 2 boats! :)

The diesel is probably the better bet. Among other things it will
A) get a lot more range per gallon of fuel, at least 50% more
B) produce reasonable amounts of electricity for recharging the batteries, 35-60a depending on installed alternator, the outboard probably has a 10a if that.
C) be able to more in bouncy conditions
D) motor out of the elements.
E) diesels are generally more reliable than gas engines


The downside is
1) older motor
2) loss of storage space
3) less convenient access to motor for maintenance.

I would reconsider Mexico as your regular summer destination. The boat you are considering is slightly on the light side for open water sailing and with the very shallow winged keel may not go very well to weather either going or returning depending on what the prevailing winds are. Mexico is LOT further than the Caribbean islands, I would consider going there, at least for the first several years until you are comfortable enough in the boat to consider the open water legs needed to get to Mexico.
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:02   #10
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Re: Need your help picking between 2 boats! :)

Thank you for all the thoughtful answers. I will push the diesel option further, I wont be loosing that much storage from having it and I can live with the marine head and swap in a composting one if it gets in my nerves in the future. As for that 3k ebay listing, your friend is luck! Up here in the north east all the 272 Odays I have seen, flooded, stinky and roughed up from Hurrican sandy are still demanding 6k +. 8k for a diesel in good shape is the best I could negotiate. If anyone knows of any others that may be a better deal I am all ears

Cheers and thanks so much for your feedback.
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