Need advice on San Francisco bay

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

You could easily Google the answers to every one of those questions.

There is great merit in that suggestion.

Rentals in SF are through the roof. You can define roof... Oakland rates are rising. Marin has always been expensive. Vallejo is broke, but Napa isn't, nor is Benecia. Rates change daily, literally, and where you are looking. SF is a BIG city, too.

Bridge tolls vary by time of day.

BART fares are online. So are ferry rates.

We could do your homework for you, but we're sure you'd enjoy doing it for yourself so much more, and learn things, too, that may be beyond your original question.

Good luck.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

To All who live in SF Bay Area:

It has been over 15 years since I last lived in SF. It was expensive then and probably even more expensive now.

Since part of the discussion has been on comparing the cost of a boat slip close to SF versus commuting costs from outside of SF to SF via car (over toll bridges) or via BART, I am curious about the costs for those commutes and also a comparison on what you might expect to pay for a moderate one bedroom apartment in SF versus other cities around the SF Bay.

Please give your opinion or comments on the following points regarding living expenses there:

1. What is the GG Bridge Toll? One way or is there a monthly toll pass for unlimited use per month?

2. Is there a Bay Bridge Toll? How much? Are the tolls paid both ways?

3. Cost for BART from Richmond to SF?

4. Cost to use ferry from Vallejo or Sausalito? Is there a monthly pass? How much assuming a daily commute to SF Financial District to work?

5. Typical monthly rent cost of moderate (not the most expensive, not the cheapest) one bedroom apartment in San Francisco? What about same type of apartment in other SF Bay Area cities (e.g. Oakland, Emeryville, Alameda, Richmond, etc.)?

SF Ferry Rates:

Fares Ticket Purchase Information | San Francisco Bay Ferry

Roughly speaking the monthly pass (40 tickets book for 20 roundtrips such as a four week work commute) is either $170 (from Alameda/Oakland) or $290 from Vallejo for an adult.

Sausalito Ferry = $10.75 ONE WAY for adult.
So, 20 days commute x $10.75 x 2 ways = $430 per month

Larkspur Ferry = $10.00 ONE WAY for adult
So, 20 days commute x $10 x 2 ways = $400 per month

BART (metro train/subway):
No monthly passes. Fares depend on mileage.
Richmond to Embarcadero (SF Financial District) = $9.00 roundtrip for adult
So, 20 days commute x $9 = $180 per month commute for that leg on BART.

Golden Gate Bridge Toll
Golden Gate Bridge tolls are collected in only one direction, headed southbound into San Francisco. $7 per transit or $6 (two axle car) if account is established for electronic payment.
So, 20 days x $6 = $120 per month for bridge toll to commute from North of SF.

Bay Bridge Toll

Typical commute in a car = $6.00 one way (only charged one way)
So, 20 days x $6 = $120 per month in typical commute toll cost.

____________
More details:

BRIDGES AND TOLLS

2 AXLE VEHICLES

Antioch Bridge, Benicia-Martinez Bridge, Carquinez Bridge, Dumbarton Bridge, Richmond-San Rafael Bridge, and San Mateo-Hayward Bridge
2 axle vehicles— regular toll: $5.00
San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge
2 axle vehicles between 12:01 a.m. and 5 a.m., between 10 a.m. and 3 p.m., and from 7 p.m. to midnight, Monday through Friday—$4.00
2 axle vehicles between 5 a.m. and 10 a.m. and between 3 p.m. and 7 p.m., Monday through Friday—$6.00
2 axle vehicles between 12:01 a.m. Saturday and midnight Sunday— regular toll: $5.00
MULTI-AXLE VEHICLES

All Bridges

Tolls are collected eastbound only on Antioch Bridge, Benicia-Martinez Bridge, and Carquinez Bridge and westbound only on Dumbarton Bridge, Richmond-San Rafael Bridge, San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, and San Mateo-Hayward Bridge.
____________

Apartment Rents:

Obviously this is skewed by some of the very expensive apartments in SF. The following comes from a website that has averages:

As of September, 2014, average apartment rent within 10 miles of San Francisco, CA is $3437.

One bedroom apartments in San Francisco rent for $2897 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $3898.

Rents are increasing.
The average apartment rent over the prior 6 months in San Francisco has increased by $214 (6%)

One bedroom units have increased by $197.5 (7%) and two bedroom apartments have increased by $257.5 (7%)

The most expensive San Francisco neighborhoods to rent apartments are Presidio Heights, Marina, and Castro-Upper Market

The cheapest San Francisco neignborhoods to rent apartments are South Of Market, Nob Hill, and Inner Richmond.

By comparison, the average rents in Dallas were: As of September, 2014, average apartment rent within 10 miles of Dallas, TX is $1137.

One bedroom apartments in Dallas rent for $1021 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $1394.

Since the OP is from Toronto:
As of September, 2014, average apartment rent within 10 miles of Toronto, ON is $1683.

One bedroom apartments in Toronto rent for $1402 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $1981.
_____________

Yes, I know how to google.

But I thought the addition of some info on this thread/topic would help others considering the topic.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Steady Hand,

I'm a native Californian. I think now is a very bad time to move to CA. The drought is bad, okay, but the pillaging of the aquifers is coming home to roost. We're looking at CA's agricultural economy going through the floor, water rationing south of Eureka, and quite possibly, mass exodus. The rice growers, fruit growers, and the whole central valley are suffering. Not the best time to relocate there, IMO. The OP's probably OK, if he's working in the top of the TransAmerica pyramid, but, the over crowding to available resources is starting to produce pretty sad pictures, IMHO.

Ann

[sailorchic34]

Bridge tolls are just part of the joy. Parking will be $18-$20 a day or higher.

Average 1 BR apartment in SF is $2700/month. Apartments in Vallejo are probably in the $1200-$1400 range, same in Sonoma. I have a friend that rents a room in a house in Santa Rosa for $800 and that's a bargain. There are people commuting 2-3 hours to the city each way every day.

Liveaboard rates on the SF side are about $350/mo. $150-$200 on the oakland side and that is beside slip rent. Elect is extra.

On the plus side the weather is nice, outdoor activities are limitless. Great Dimsum, Fleet week, Hardly strictly Bluegrass concerts, Just tons to do. Plus the sailing thingy, I hear some folks do...

[markpierce]

There's nothing like it.

[Fog Bank]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

To All who live in SF Bay Area:

It has been over 15 years since I last lived in SF. It was expensive then and probably even more expensive now.

Since part of the discussion has been on comparing the cost of a boat slip close to SF versus commuting costs from outside of SF to SF via car (over toll bridges) or via BART, I am curious about the costs for those commutes and also a comparison on what you might expect to pay for a moderate one bedroom apartment in SF versus other cities around the SF Bay.

Please give your opinion or comments on the following points regarding living expenses there:

1. What is the GG Bridge Toll? One way or is there a monthly toll pass for unlimited use per month?

2. Is there a Bay Bridge Toll? How much? Are the tolls paid both ways?

3. Cost for BART from Richmond to SF?

4. Cost to use ferry from Vallejo or Sausalito? Is there a monthly pass? How much assuming a daily commute to SF Financial District to work?

5. Typical monthly rent cost of moderate (not the most expensive, not the cheapest) one bedroom apartment in San Francisco? What about same type of apartment in other SF Bay Area cities (e.g. Oakland, Emeryville, Alameda, Richmond, etc.)?

1. Toll for GG is collected electronically now. You can either use Fast Track, or they can mail you a photo of your Lic. plate and a bill. That is my understanding at least. Due to only crossing GG at odd hours I'm not sure how entirely accurate that assessment is.

2. Toll on the Bay Bridge is one way, and that is going into SF. While I am a Fast Track user, I recall that the toll is $5. The toll is the least of your problems with this path. Think traffic.

3. I've never taken BART from Richmond to the city, so I honestly have no idea on cost.

4. Living in the city, I have no clue on cost for ferry service.

5. Cost of a one bedroom apartment in the city will be ridiculous. Keep in mind that average rents in the city have surpassed levels seen in other major metropolitan areas such as NYC. These numbers go down if you head south towards Daly City, but the amount of reduction must be weighed against the travel time to and from during high commute times.

Emeryvile, if you are using BART, might be a better compromise. Check in the area around ikea, as that would give you access to eateries, freeway, etc.

Richmond itself I'm not really sure of as our wanderings around have been confined to finding a grocery store and a Target. The area around Marina Bay Yacht Harbor is filled with town homes, but beyond that it is a bit rough. Point Richmond has a small town feel, and stands in stark contrast to Richmond itself.

[waggy]

Probably won't help with locating a liveaboard arrangement, but a publication directed as its title would indicate. I had a subscription years ago, but have since let it lapse. Enjoyable, and not expensive if I recall. It used to have a pretty good classified section too, but don't know if it still does.

Read: Bay & Delta Yachtsman / Northern California Yacht & Boating Magazine

[Capt Phil]

It's been many years since I lived in Marin on the north shore of the Bay and commuted to downtown on the Larkspur ferry. The only downside was I became an alcoholic drinking bloody Mary's going to work and vodka neat coming home! All my mates are dead now so I was lucky to escape. My better half has a good friend who lives just up from the new Giants stadium and is paying over$2000 a month for about 400 sq ft!
Prices are frightening in the Bay Area for accommodation, slips, parking, cab fare and just about everything else. There are many other beautiful places to live and cruise in this world... Just look around! Phil

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Hi, Steady Hand,

I'm a native Californian. I think now is a very bad time to move to CA. The drought is bad, okay, but the pillaging of the aquifers is coming home to roost. We're looking at CA's agricultural economy going through the floor, water rationing south of Eureka, and quite possibly, mass exodus. The rice growers, fruit growers, and the whole central valley are suffering. Not the best time to relocate there, IMO. The OP's probably OK, if he's working in the top of the TransAmerica pyramid, but, the over crowding to available resources is starting to produce pretty sad pictures, IMHO.

Ann

Drought is a serious problem and lack of water resources (for other reasons) too. I have been traveling in West and seen many communities seriously affected by these issues.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Bridge tolls are just part of the joy. Parking will be $18-$20 a day or higher.

Average 1 BR apartment in SF is $2700/month. Apartments in Vallejo are probably in the $1200-$1400 range, same in Sonoma. I have a friend that rents a room in a house in Santa Rosa for $800 and that's a bargain. There are people commuting 2-3 hours to the city each way every day.

Liveaboard rates on the SF side are about $350/mo. $150-$200 on the oakland side and that is beside slip rent. Elect is extra.

On the plus side the weather is nice, outdoor activities are limitless. Great Dimsum, Fleet week, Hardly strictly Bluegrass concerts, Just tons to do. Plus the sailing thingy, I hear some folks do...

Thanks for adding that. I forgot about parking (I was so used to free parking) and when I lived SF years ago I commuted using bus and did not pay to park downtown (left my car in my garage). So, parking is another daily expense to add, as you point out. It sure adds up!

I also appreciate what you added about the other housing rates. And the live aboard rates too. Thanks.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Fog Bank

5. Cost of a one bedroom apartment in the city will be ridiculous. Keep in mind that average rents in the city have surpassed levels seen in other major metropolitan areas such as NYC. These numbers go down if you head south towards Daly City, but the amount of reduction must be weighed against the travel time to and from during high commute times.

Thanks for adding that info and your comments about what would be found in the areas. All of the anecdotes and info from everyone is helping me get a better idea of what to expect in SF area now.

I did a search on the average apartment rentals in SF and other major cities. I was surprised to see SF higher in cost than NYC. About $500 per month more for average 2 bedroom apartment. When I moved from SF to NYC 16 years ago, my rent tripled when I moved to NYC.

San Francisco
Average 2 Bedroom = $3898
Average 1 Bedroom in SF = $2897

New York City
Average 2 Bedroom = $3331
Average 1 Bedroom = $2666

[tbodine88]

In 1981, my studio in the tenderloin was $250/month. A train pass for the train to Sunnyvale was $50 per month.

I checked on my apartment 6 years later, after I got out of the navy, and it had risen to 450 per month. The neighborhood is a lot better now, so I figure its a lot higher, especially if you like baseball as the stadium is three blocks away.

I rode the Bart from the airport to Daly city three years ago seems like it was $2.00.

I loved living there, I just think these old bones would find it too cold now. I'm looking for warmer climes.

[ssanzone]

If you dont mind the cold, the early morning drive between Half Mood Bay and SF isnt horrible and the rates are pretty cheap by comparison with the East Bay marina rates.

A few years ago they were planning an expansion of the Treasure Island marina with the intention of hosting more liveaboards. TI is nice as you sail right into the bay and are half way between SF and East Bay so the commute isnt overly painful.

NOTE: there isnt a lot going on in TI, so you would have to head West or East to eat out and shop etc.

welcome (in advance) to the SF Bay.

-steve

[Capt Phil]

Perhaps it is just old fashioned age that leads to a more conservative frame of mind but at the risk of pissing off the Mods, the radical left wing political loonies who have taken over the area have built 'Sodom and Gommorah' on the Bay. While Mayor Feinstein was somewhat on the liberal side, she at least ran the city as a business and established a climate of welcoming those who were of any political persuasion.
No longer the case unfortunately... San Francisco and it's surrounding communities are among the least accommodating of any city anywhere in the world I've experienced. Unless you conformto their particular brand of weirdness, you are not welcome and God help you if you demonstrate any hint of conservatism! Phil

[sailorchic34]

Richmond is I think #2, or possibly #3 in crime, after Detroit and possibly Oakland. Oddly the various knife and gun clubs stay away from marina bay, mainly as the police station is right there too. Point Richmond is a lovely quaint place. I lived at marina bay and never once had a problem or felt unsafe. Though another liveaboard had the entire muffler system taken off their Benz, Twice. Ouch. It was up on blocks. Not fun.

The east side of 580 is the hood, the west side is pretty nice, well parts of it anyway.

From a slip standpoint there are less expensive options further away from the central bay. But then you have traffic to deal with.