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Old 29-05-2015, 14:28   #16
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Re: My live aboard plans..

You sort of describe a Westsail, maybe a 32.
I'd at least give a good one a look, and with your budget, you easily could get an excellent one, with lots left over.
We have about the same budget, and I started out looking at much newer production boats, Catalina, Hunter and the rest.
But I ended up with an older boat. Same money, but in ten yrs I think the one I ended up with will be in better shape and worth more money. She was meant to be our "learner" boat, one I could learn on and really decide what it was I wanted in a boat, as I just don't think anyone could really know without at least some experience.
Intent was to get a newer / nicer boat, but at some time we decided there wasn't anything wrong with this one, why not save that money and just fix up this one to our liking?


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Old 29-05-2015, 14:39   #17
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Re: My live aboard plans..

First, kudos for having a dream and a plan. You're ahead of most. Good luck.
Second, luck's got nuthin' to do with it. You decide to do it. You do it.
But, I think your plan is backwards. The sailing school is a great idea. Definitely do that. The day you finish it, you will know more about sailing and boat handling than probably 90% of the people on the water today!

But it won't teach you anything about what it's like to live on a boat. Including wether or not you will even like it. A lot of people who have this dream spend months or years dreaming, studying, planning and preparing. Then they buy a boat. Like as not, the wrong boat. And almost always too big. (I KNOW that wasn't a sentence and I DON"T CARE, English major!lol) And they pay too much for it. Then they spend more months or even years preparing the boat. For what, exactly, they aren't quite sure. But they read in a magazine that they they should do this, that or the other. THEN they move aboard and sail away.
And like as not, discover in short order that one or the other or both of them hate it.

They don't like living in a small space. They miss having all their "stuff." The "house" is always moving; sometimes violently. They experience a constant underlying low level of stress, worry, and fear. What's THAT noise??? Why is my bed wet???!!! What do you mean, the motor won't start? OMG! They're sea sick. They miss all their friends. Malls. Restaurants. Having a car to hop in and drive anywhere they want to go. Cell phone service. Internet. Tunafish, again? Really?
Weather becomes a much more personal experience.


If you really need all that, then a house works much better. Boats make lousy houses. And the only way to know is to do it.

Try this idea on for size instead. Book a charter in the caribbean on a boat similar in size and type to what you are imagining. WITH captain. Fully provisioned. AND with who ever you are thinking you will do this with.
At least a week. Two weeks will be three times as good. Do this immediately. Try to pick a location that won't be ALL just other charters.
What ever it costs will be money well spent in the long run. See if you even like this lifestyle in the VERY BEST and EASIEST of circumstances. The captain will teach you as much as you want to know. And you'll meet some cruisers. people who are doing it.

If you return even more convinced that this is your dream, then buy a boat right away. A SMALL boat. A daysailer. 14 feet at most. Learn how to sail it and motor it. Every other boat you ever own will handle exactly the same way, only more so. Learn to manage the forces of wind, current, waves and inertia on a small, manageable platform.
A screw up will not cost thousands (TENS of thousands?!!) of dollars in broken gear; or your whole boat, or even your life. A grounding, dock crash, flogging main sail or an accidental crash jibe, knock down or round up on a 14 foot daysailer is a LOT less scary (and expensive!!! don't forget expensive!) than it is on a 40 footer. But the mechanics and physics involved are exactly the same. The forces are just less. It's cheap, easy, safe school.

Learn how to use wind and current to sail it off of and back onto the dock without the motor. Learn to anchor it. Learn to tune it and maintain it. When you have mastered that boat sell it. See what the difference is between what you thought it was worth when you bought it and what everyone else apparently does when you sell it. This can be a real learning experience!
Then buy another one. A little bigger. Buy one you can sleep on. Something with a little galley, an electrical system, a head, maybe even an inboard engine. I think 24 feet is a great little starter cruiser. And people have made trans Atlantic and trans pacific passages in them!
Learn how to manage and work on all that stuff. See how much bigger all the forces are. Start weekending. Go on a few trips.

Repeat.

Do this over and over until;
A, you're somewhat confident that you might be starting to know what you're doing. And you don't need a friend to drive it for you.
B, you know what kind of boats you like. And what they cost to buy, operate, store and maintain.
C, go on another Caribbean charter. This time sans captain. See how you do. How you like it. Again, under ideal circumstances and on someone else's fully insured boat.
D, Eventually you find yourself on a boat you think you'd be comfortable sailing away on and you can't think of any reason you shouldn't.

And if at any time during this process you or your crew says, "ARRRGGHHHH!!! I HATE THIS #@%&!!!" Then it may be time for a course correction. You may find that you need a different boat. Or a different kind of boat. Or a boat in a different ocean. Or no boat.

You can easily do this within your time frame. You could do it in as little as three boats. Just don't make the mistake that you can learn what you need to know from books and magazines and school courses and other people or on other people's boats. Or delude yourself that by throwing enough money at it you can guarantee a good time and a successful outcome. I know of someone locally who tried that. And apparently 1.2 million wasn't enough...You need your own experience. You need time on the water.

I think your plan to only "buy once" is a guaranteed path to an expensive disappointment and ultimately, complete failure. I can't imagine wanting to own a boat you know nothing about and are afraid to even back out of the slip by yourself.
And I would remove the phrase, "...if ever," from my vocabulary. You should be able to do that by the time you're through with the second boat.
That's how I would do it now, if I hadn't already done it wrong!!!!
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Old 29-05-2015, 14:57   #18
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Re: My live aboard plans..

The correct size of the boat is what you (and your son) find large enough for living aboard. If you have some extra money still floating around, then maybe something bigger and more comfortable.

I understood that safety is important to you. Old boats can be safe too, if they are structurally sound. You can add and upgrade all necessary safety equipment in them.

If you think you are a person that is careful and interested in learning new things (as opposed to a person that makes hasty decisions and often regrets later), then you are ready to go as soon as you feel you are ready to go. As snort already said, sailing is not rocket science. You just need to learn some basic boat handling skills and some respect of the sea (that is always stronger than your boat).
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Old 29-05-2015, 15:05   #19
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Re: My live aboard plans..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMaxx View Post
Snort....
I can always power boat until I am comfortable with the sailing aspect....Im not expecting it to take forever.
Also why I am really concentrating on a 36-38*40' boat. (40 is pushing it..Id rather be on the smaller end.

I want to plan on occupancy for two fairly comfy.


Wizard1

One exciting thing is I have a fairly loose time frame....I am clearing most the bulk out of the house and plan on putting it up for sale in the next couple weeks.
I know 6 mos. just for medical reasons...but I hope to be there within this next year or sooner.
I have been reading threads for quite awhile. I am amazed at just how much free information is out there...but I still have some questions.
I really like (and think I would be better off) with a full keel, double ender.
I do not want to become a constant teak tech, so I am leaning towards a more wood free friendly deck....however below I want it all traditional look and feel.
I am looking for it to be a monohull of fiberglass.



Captain58sailin

I figure you are correct too....If a body put's their mind to it they can achieve about anything.

I had to laugh on your Joesy Wales comment....I got all the remainder of the books on the floor and took the majority of them to a local used book store, three big boxes full.....traded for 4 sailing books. I though it a fair deal.

But the Josey Wales?

Still on the shelf....I wont rid myself of a Forest Carter book!








I was a Paramedic and have just a boat load of my EMS class books.....that is where I want to keep certain things, but the list keeps getting longer...I guess one does not necessarily need to set sail with a Grays Anatomy..


Cadence

The 115 is at the tippy top for the boat itself.
The more cash I can stash in the bank the better. I will be living off a little more than 2 grand a month. And other than a mortgage and a student loan I drag around like a family pet Im debts free.
I haven't decided whether to sell my truck or not...but that would garnish about another 10K plus I have my 401 and other monies..(not much but enough).


A64pilot
Thanks! That kind of reply goes a long way to boost a neophytes confidence!

Cptn.Kid

That makes me feel a lot better...its a 800 dollar deal and I was hoping it would be worth it.
I'm not sure how I got into your finances? May have been the warning that the cost of the boat may be the least of costs?
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Old 29-05-2015, 15:13   #20
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Re: My live aboard plans..

dgz3,

I have had a minimalist vagabond life,and like my mom told my sister, "M doesn't care about stuff, he never has...."

Maybe it was going to the Marines at 18, but I have moved more than a few times with about all I owned in a backpack with a bike strapped to it.....and my own personal lifestyle is very low impact.

I did not buy a house till later in life and will be doubly glad to rid myself of it.
My current house is 700sq. ft. and it is cavernous to me.
My biggest pieces are of my woodworking shop. Which I am loathe to get started on because I am going to flea bay a lot of it as they are very sought after items.
Not too mention having to deal with Craigslist on the heavier machines...blech.

I love sleeping on the water in the cabin of a boat. Beats the tent floor...

Another aspect is for me right now, a smaller cozy place is just about what the doctor ordered.

I am going to actually jump for joy when I sell my lawnmower.

And since I will be cutting ties here, I can purchase the boat from really where ever its at here in the US....that is very cool!
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Old 29-05-2015, 15:28   #21
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Re: My live aboard plans..

Blue Maxx,

If you will be well enough, I'd get started on the sailing courses before you buy the boat, because from being on the various sailing school boats, you'll get a sense of what you prefer, in addition to you Westsail 32 concept. If you cannot, yet, they go looking at boats, it keeps one's enthusiasm active.

Incidentally, some of the Westsails were home fitted out, and they vary considerably below decks. If part of your skill set is woodworking, you might be able to buy lower in their market and fit it out to suit yourself. Just a thought.

For another threat, yesterday, I checked yachtworld's site, and their Westsails ranged in cost from $32K to $64K.

There's a thread here called Survey 101 (or something like that), and it is about what to look at for sussing out defects in possible purchases.

IMO, you can do this, but stick with your PT; sometimes that's hard because progress does not happen in the time frame we want, and the insurance doesn't want to pay for more.

Wishing you the best.

Ann
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Old 29-05-2015, 16:19   #22
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Re: My live aboard plans..

Sounds like you are flexible as to where you want to live aboard?

I suggest that warmer is better than colder.

I have lived aboard in Boston when I was younger and would not want to do that again.

As for the boat, unless you want to be a competitive racing sort of sailor, starting out at your age on a sub 20' boat isn't really necessary.

As has been said, it's not rocket science. I bought a Pearson 30 and a year later a Pearson 424 with hank on sails and moved aboard. I kept her on a mooring for awhile and sailed often, mostly with my girlfriend who looked good and prepared the food and drinks while I did the rest.

You sound like a competent, hands on guy so this should't be a big deal for you to start out on the size that you are considering.

As has also been said, there are lots of nice boats in the 50k-75k range that will do nicely.

I often suggest a Pearson 365 because it has a great layout, shoal draft, huge tankage and a separate stall shower. Awesome boat to live on and 50k buys the gold standard.

Pearson 365

Good luck.
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Old 29-05-2015, 16:51   #23
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Re: My live aboard plans..

Sailpower...I want to go to the warmth..I told mom, tried Alaska, too cold....Im heading south!

I may buy it in Boston but I dont wanna stay too long!

And I am NOT looking for speed...I will get there when I get there..Ive never been on time for anything anyway....

I want stability, control ease...a solid boat. One I wont be scared to death of in heavy waters.
From just the brief conversations Ive had here even today my mnid is already seeing that I can spend a lot less than I thought and more importantly not be afraid to get the one I like...
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Old 29-05-2015, 16:52   #24
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Re: My live aboard plans..

Juho, I am at times probably a little over cautious now'adays...I cant be held responsible for nasty rumors of my youth stating otherwise.

I do know that when I see a newer bigger name sailboat it has all the appeal of a toyota camry.

Ann mentioned the Westsails too because just her shape tingles me...I would go head in on a Hans Christian when the time comes, in a heart beat....depending, always leave a way out!






Thank you for the reply Ann....about the woodworking, is there a need for someone who refinishes teak decks?
I have thought about that as a possible way to earn xtra cash. I have no idea what that looks like from the cruisers side.

M
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Old 29-05-2015, 19:40   #25
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Re: My live aboard plans..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMaxx View Post
Juho, I am at times probably a little over cautious now'adays...I cant be held responsible for nasty rumors of my youth stating otherwise.

I do know that when I see a newer bigger name sailboat it has all the appeal of a toyota camry.

Ann mentioned the Westsails too because just her shape tingles me...I would go head in on a Hans Christian when the time comes, in a heart beat....depending, always leave a way out!

Thank you for the reply Ann....about the woodworking, is there a need for someone who refinishes teak decks?

I have thought about that as a possible way to earn xtra cash. I have no idea what that looks like from the cruisers side.

M
Blue Maxx:

There are two highly qualified shipwrights on CF, MaineSail and Minaret, both of whom could probably answer that question for you way better than me.

I personally wouldn't have tea decks, but have some friends who did their own in Langkawi. So, yes, some cruisers want them re-done. But many cruisers don't have a whole lot of disposable income, so making much money doing it as a specialist, I just don't know. It's a little off the main subject of this thread, but the kind of jobs almost everyone needs help with are: electronics, refrigeration, diesel mechanics, and general electrical. [Most older boats will require re-wiring.]

Actually, the HC's main problem is that they're Taiwan built boats, and actual build quality varies considerably, and unpredictably. Also "black iron" tanks that are inaccessible without removal of built in furniture.. The unpredictable nature of the flaws is what has made me feel prejudiced against Taiwan built boats. However, many people have them and love them. If you're seriously interested in them, you'll want to learn which yards and at what times good work was, in fact, done. For example, some of the Peterson 44's were good, and that was mentioned on a revived thread earlier today.


Ann
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Old 29-05-2015, 20:42   #26
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Re: My live aboard plans..

BlueMaxx, in rereading my weighty and overly verbose tome, I realized it sounded more than a little pessimistic and preachy. Which was not my intention.

A64pilot's post is proof positive that your buy once plan can work. Hopefully he won't realize one day that after all was said and done, he may have spent twice what he needed to. Hopefully, he won't also realize one day that he might prefer to be on a different boat.
And I bet if we ask him, he'll admit that the first thing he flew was a lot lighter, cheaper, and less expensive than an A64!

Hard to criticize success though. It's working for him. And it can for you, too.

My point was that you may not know just what you really want until you have more experience and know better what is out there and what is important to you. Romantic notions and fantasies sometimes don't survive a collision with reality. Especially if it costs you a hundred grand! lol But if you stair step your way up, you'll be fully competent on whatever you wind up with.
His suggestion of a Westsail 32 is interesting. Inferring (imagining) what i can about your nature, he may be on to something. It could be right up your alley.

I think I read somewhere that more people have circumnavigated on Westsail 32s than on any other boat. They have their own web group. To my eye, they are a beautiful and proper looking little ship. But they are 40 years old. And half of them were home built. If you get a bad one, it will break your heart AND your bank. So buy one that someone else spent $100,000 refurbishing. You'll probably get it for 50.

If the Westsail makes you tingle, then have a look at the Lyle Hess designed, Sam Morse built Bristol Channel Cutter. Better have a handful of ammonia caps handy when you do! And don't let the size fool you. Lot's of boat in a small package. You might also take a peak at the Pacific Seacraft line for a more modern production boat with more traditional lines.

Whatever boat you buy should be an expression of your own nature. It should make you feel good. And when you're on it, it should make you feel right. And where ever you eye falls, it should see beauty and good sense in every curve. It should satisfy.

I rode rescue in Miami for 33 years. I retired in '08. In 2011 I had an MI. RCA, inferior, posterior. I had hauled myself 20 feet up my mast in a bosuns seat and four part tackle. Alone. I never said I was a smart man. Last year I quit kidding myself and retired my license and let all my certs lapse.
I loved that job. I cried like a baby when I finally quit. Five years after I could have. And i miss it and the people I worked with and the public I served every day. But there isn't enough money in the world to get me back on a Rescue truck, now. I am in a different life. On a different path. Maybe you are, too?

Trade all your EMS books for every book and DVD ever written by Lin and Larry Pardey. Your minimalist woodworker soul may find kindred spirits there.
Besides, if you don't know that sh*t by now, you never will!

"Go small, go simple, go now”
― Larry Pardey, Cruising in "Seraffyn"
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Old 29-05-2015, 21:21   #27
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Re: My live aboard plans..

Blue max, I'm right where you are, or maybe slightly ahead, or behind:-?
We just bought a 26 foot to learn on. Nice and comfy, easy to sail and sleep on for a weekend or so.
We had no interest in small boats or dingys, don't want to race around, just cruise and look at new sites. Buy what speaks to you, and it will speak to you.
Even just moving the boat to a new slip I could hear her talking, telling me when to turn and telling me when I didn't respond fast enough.
Look at anything and everything that you can. When you find THE ONE you will know.
Even if you spend too much, or take too long finding her, it will be worth it when she's yours.
I think you stated you are in your late 40s, if so you have learnt to trust your gut. Best source of advice you can get.
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Old 29-05-2015, 21:48   #28
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Re: My live aboard plans..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
It's amazing how fast you'll get hooked on an e-reader once you get one. Will never go back to smelly books on a boat.
So you're not one of those folks who opened their e-reader to discover
they can no longer access one, or more, of their book files -
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Old 29-05-2015, 22:03   #29
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Re: My live aboard plans..

OP wrote : 'I don't want to buy twice'
I did buy twice and really annoyed that had wrong boat begin with. That's been fixed up now with the second yacht and they will have to carry me out when I am dead. Being inexperienced is like being lost in a big woods and really pays to talk to people. I obviously didn't ask enough questions and ended up with wrong boat!
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Old 30-05-2015, 05:30   #30
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Re: My live aboard plans..

I suspect that there's much risk boat shopping when you are influenced by those that make you "tingle". If your money and the final outcome is precious, it's best to make a clear and simple objective list of your needs. A nightmare can make you "tingle"!
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